Where to get some quality salvia

[knucklebrain1970]

first off, I'd rather not hear of anyone that has to tell me to stay straight to meditate or obe. With me, it just doesn't work. I know those are defeatist thoughts and I don't like to sound that way. However after months and months of practice I just figure I'm one of those people that just can't relax and focus.

I've seen the site iamshaman and they aren't shipping at the moment due to computer upgrades and whatnot. So who else sells high quality stuff. Also is the extract in liquid form better?

I'm basically going to use this for meditation enhancement. I meditate daily and I just sit and nothing happens. I can't focus and I can never sit still. It's so frign hard for me to relax. So the next best thing for me to do is resort to drugs. So be it.

Now I'm not going to be an idiot. I will not take the required dose, probably not even 1/4 of it. I am a lightweight with drugs. I can't even handle 1 hit of pot, as it does not relax me, but makes me think, and trust me, I do not need to think.

The only thing that really relaxes me is anything of the opiate family. Unfortunately I don't have an unlimited supply and I am through with going through the withdrawals from it. I've had vicodins plenty of times for various bodily injuries and it seems that this was the only time I got remotely close to OBE.

So I'm going to experiment with Salvia. If that doesn't work, I'll try something else. Now I'm not looking for green men from Mars. Just the ability to focus a little better.

Salvia, what do you think? I've also heard of another plant called
Kratom. Anybody have any luck with that?

I regret to try to resort to having to use drugs to focus and perhaps have an OBE, however I am frustrated with not being able to progress. It's been months and months of practice and I still can't relax well.

Kevin

[Souljah333]

oh man, if you can't handle a hit of pot...i'm not sure about salvia?!?
here's a link though http://www.sagewisdom.org/salviashop.html
also check out http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml.

have you tried shrums bcuz that would be more gentle at first. maybe a tea of valerian, dream herb, chamomile, etc. you can't go around all day gulping down cokes or coffee, chocolate bars and the like, and then try to meditate (not saying that thats what you're doing).

all the power to ya.
333

[knucklebrain1970]

Thanks Tom. Like I say. I've become dependent on stuff in the past and whenever experimenting with stuff, I stick with the low doses.

How the heck do you take the extract if it burns your mouth? Dilution? I hear the key is to not swallow it? Is it a Listerine type of burn or like battery acid?

Kevin

[knucklebrain1970]

I use to smoke lots of pot. Then one day BAM

Bad gas in my stomach and my brain turned it into a hypothetical heart attack and there I had it folks, my first panic attack.

It's not that I can't handle pot. It's just not something I can do and just sit there. I have to be involved in doing something.

I know the salvia will probably produce a fair amount of anxiety with me, however I realize that and will make sure I do it in very very small doses and work up to it.

I'm 34 and I've done lots and lots of drugs. I was a fool when I was younger, but now I'm more careful. I still have a little sack at my crib. I take a little toke here and there. 1 hit and I'm blitzed. My buddies are still going through and oz. a week, and this has been going on 20 years

So in a way, I'm lucky. However I am prepared for what the salvia has to present to me. I can make it however I want. I can maintain a calmness to the best of my ability, or I can freak out. I do relax sometimes when I meditate, and I get vibrations going, but it's never consistent.

If I can step it up a notch with a little salvia, then I will.

What about Kratom, anybody ever use that?

Kevin

[knucklebrain1970]

Oh believe me, I will thoroughly research this before anything goes in my mouth. My wife is a nurse and whenever the doc gives me something my wife says it's fine and I still have to research it

Now WTF is wild cabbage? Is that what it's called? I've tried valerian root, kava kava. That stuff does nothing. But I'm sure the vitamin shoppe verison of it is sh*t anyhow.

Alright, where do I find this cabbage?


Kevin

[knucklebrain1970]

Is that what it's called? Wild Cabbage? I searched and only found some recipes and whatnot?

Kevin

[knightlight]

the salvia 10x stuff that comes in flakes is crazy excrement.  I have my fair share of experience with other drugs, but I havent experienced anything like this.  Its like being at the peak of an acid trip for about 45 seconds.  I had the pipe in my hand and the lighter in the other, and as soon as I inhaled the hit I started to hallucinate insanely and I wanted to put the pipe down so I wouldnt drop it but I couldnt figure out which hand was holding the pipe and which one had the lighter even though I was looking at my hands.  I layed back on my bed and parts of my bed folded up over me and i was going through a tunnel and I was bombarded by mushroom like images and a feeling that I was seeing something I had been destined to see my whole life.  THen my legs felt like they where out of my body and I could feel them floating in the air like a flag in the wind.  All this happened in a period of about a minute.  It always made me sweat like crazy for about 5 seconds too.  Its intense and sometimes not all that pleasant.

[halfphased]

If you want a more gentle ride then the way to go is to chew the salvia leaf.  You'll have a smoother "entry" and "exit" and it is suppossed to last longer also.  I'm sure you can find that method easily if you google it.  If you smoke it then you have to keep it inhaled for about 20-30 seconds and make sure it is a big hit.  

When smoking, this stuff hits quick.  Faster than you would think.  Faster than you can think.  (if you use the kind fortified with extract.  I have only tried 5x fortified)

I believe that the skill of meditation comes in very usefull when using salvia. (As it does in any situation)  If you can not remained concentrated then it will be very easy to get caught up in your thought processes and get lost in your thoughts.

At least for me, it was very easy to get swept into a dreamworld and loose my sense of being grounded.  Of course, I'm a dreamy pisces, so perhaps I am a little more pronned to that.

Fortunately, salvia has been very kind to me so far.  It always shows me something about myself and no matter how "out there" I get when using it, she always leads me back home.  I have also always felt awesome the next day after using salvia.  

But if your problem is just the need to relax, then I highly recommend taking up something akin to hatha yoga or tai chi.  The ability to be able to relax at any moment without aid is a skill that is well worth having.

We forget what a rotten state we leave our bodies in and don't even think to see the connection between our physical state and our mental state.  When you use plants or chemicals you are trying to alter your mental state without fixing your physical state, which can push you even further out of balance.  

I can only recommend, from my own personal experience, that you work on fixing your body and mind before you use any  mind altering substances.  You may find that you will find it even more difficult to meditate if you use them.  Sometimes they would allow me to meditate very well and then afterwards I could not meditate without them.  Sometimes, I could use them once and be able to keep that meditative state for weeks at a time.  Sometimes, the fact that I couldn't meditate would cause me to get lost and I had a bumpy ride back to earth, so to speak.

If you do decide to do anything, then start with small doses first and work your way up.  That way you can get a feel for the experience.  I know it can be fun to just get dropped kicked into another area of consciousness, but then if you discover that you want to get "Back" you'll have no idea which way to go.  (Or maybe you'll find that you do know, if you calm yourself and look inside for directions)--but can you calm yourself if you're in the middle of the ocean with sharks circling around you?

Salvia -  you'll go in very fast and be out before you know it. (If you smoke it (properly), at least)

[knucklebrain1970]

Well perhaps I overemphasized that I can't relax. I do relax a lot better than when I started. I find that breathing techniques like the inhale 5, hold 5, exhale 5, hold 5 gets me to relax pretty quickly.

However I never seem to progress to the next level. I also have .5mg klonazepam which I usually take a 1/2 of one of those as needed. Lately it's been a 1/2 in the morning as I always seem to have anxiety before work.

So I'm hoping that if I use the salvia in a small dose it might be able to expand my meditations. I don't know if this thinking is correct, but it just seems like there is no progression.

Now on the other hand since I have the preconceived notion that I must progress instead of just "being" probably inhibits my progress as well.

I guess it's my own brain defeating me. However I'll just try this stuff and see what happens, that's all I can really do. I appreciate all the input. I just hope someday that I can lose the attitude that I just don't have it in me to OBE. I must incorporate the mindset that "I can" instead of giving up so easily. I just feel sometimes like I'm wasting my time with this spiritual aspect of life.

I however can not see myself from the exterior, so perhaps I have made progress.

Thanks for the input however.

Kevin

[Ben K]

Isnt salvia just like a 10 hour acid trip squeezed into 5 minutes? If so I dont see how it could be useful for meditation.

If you really do feel like you need something to "kick-start" the process, just get some reefer. The downside to this is the same as using hemi-sync too much: it becomes a crutch, and you will need to smoke every time you want to get anything accomplished.

I do smoke weed and i try to keep it seperate from my spiritual practices and find that there really is no problem. But salvia, if you can even get it to work, wont really do much.

If you do decide to use it, make sure that when you smoke it you get it as hot as possible. Use a butane lighter and make sure the blue part of the flame is heating the plant. And, like halfphased said, take a big hit and hold it in 30 seconds if you can. Ive never done the stuff but i know alot of people that have tried it and this is what they have suggested.

[Souljah333]

Bad gas in my stomach and my brain turned it into a hypothetical heart attack and there I had it folks, my first panic attack.

that is the best description i've ever heard. i know bcuz it happened to me...exactly!

that's the only reason i cautioned against it, but if you've been there...i know for a fact you're already cautious.
knightlight

Its intense and sometimes not all that pleasant.

TRUE.
halfphased

(and it works) Faster than you can think

VERY TRUE, and it would be better if you got fresh leaves and chewed them like he mentioned. if you've ever had a pot salad (or hash brownies as runlola suggested) you know how much more subtle the trip can be by way of mouth. though i remember some friends of mine with hash brownies on a train ride from toronto to montreal. i'm a lightweight so one is always enough, but they each ate two, got the munchies w/ no effect, ate another two before boarding, and split the last one on the way. you had to be there when it kicked in half way...it was funny, then it was scary, and we all spent the night in the emergency room.

I think the wild "bitter" lettuce would be a good way to go. the best would be from britian, but basically what it is is " dandelion"! though a little weaker than the european versions. just milk it like a poppy (don't smoke it ) good in hot chocolate. or a spoonful of honey.

here's a link to the tincture/extract
http://www.herbalcantera.net/extracts.html (1 oz. $10.50)
here's another valerian/wild lettuce mix (1 ox. $6.50)
http://www.healthyhealing.com/product.esiml?PID=762
333

[Ben K]

souljah: how long does the trip last when you use the extract? Ive only talked with people about smoking the plant itself.

[Souljah333]

i'm not the best person to ask. my metabolism is slow so trips for me last much longer than most. an hour and it creeps. smoking it of course is quicker/shorter, but i've never smoked it myself. i've made tea from the flowers which was the most subtle. the milk i heat a little in an enamel pot (or glass/not metal)...very low flame, and leave it to sit for a while (an hour or so) then heat it up gently again with chocolate and add milk. i've only tried a few times, but the effects were pleasant for the most part...which for me means "subtle". i never push when it comes to drugs. baby steps.

it can be dangerous if you're stupid.

here's a few links for research
http://www.wildlettuce.com/
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Lactuca_spp..shtml

it's the opposite of shrums that i find seem to prolong time. i'll think it's 2 in the morning and it's only 8pm. where with this you think it's 8pm and it's 2 in the morning.

333

i really don't feel that i have enough experience to give too much advice.
the erowid site is useful as usual.

[Ben K]

erowid is the excrement, but with stuff like salvia it can be hard to dig through heaps of info.

And I agree, i research the HELL out of any drug before it goes into my body.

[G3MM4]

Ok I've been doing quite a bit of research on salvia myself, and I have found some websites with articles on salvia.

Dr Bongs
Sage Wisdom
Erowid
SalviaSupply.Com

With some of these websites you need to scroll down a bit to see the links for articles. Also most of them sell good high quality salvia.

That's my ha'penny's worth! Good luck.

[Souljah333]

on occasion when i have the money i go to harry's market in atlanta(glorified healthfood store). i've been living in small towns around the south east for the past ten years (and as i might have mentioned i hail from toronto)...so even though i haven't found any decent chinese food. it really excites me to see things like fiddle heads, wild mushrooms, bitter melon and ugly fruit, lentil & chickpea flour in a store. things you just can't get at the piggly wiggly!    anyway...as i was standing in the fresh herb section i thought how nice it would be to have a tiny little shop that sold a variety of wildcrafted plants indigenous to the area (for medicinal and spiritual use)...bcuz basically you could sell anything. every single plant you pass by, every tree, every shrub, weed. etc...has some effect on something.
they were selling lime leaves for 1.99/lb. and fiddle heads were 10.99/lb.

a beautiful little shop with small baskets of jasmine blossoms, blackberry leaves, and fresh mugwort, peyote buttons by the gram, bc bud, maui wowie, dandelion root, slippery elm bark, salvia, wild lettuces, amanitas, and coral mushrooms...and some really bang on experienced person behind the counter. someone that would listen, dowse a little and look into your soul and mix you up exactly what you needed, how much to take, etc. maybe a nice little room off to the side to trip. something like that would be a dream business for me. i'm sure some ultra groovy chick somewhere is doing exactly that in a round about way, but that's what pisses me off about the rules. the things i am/have always been passionate about...are so outside the box that it basically a no go at every turn. my purpose feels curtailed, and i wonder why (at times) that my interests are so few (here). i have no interest in libraries, gift shops, coffee houses, bars, clubs, target, parking lots, theme parks, tropical vacations, movie theaters, porn shops, hospitals, etc. (thought i do get off on hardware stores, antique shops, salvation armies & feed & seeds)  i could care less about gravity and matter. it pisses me off that were treated like a bunch of degenerate [edit] children. it's okay for everyone to spew fossil fuels into the air 24-7, dump tankers full of the [edit] into the sky before landing, guzzle down sugar-acid sodas ritualistically, snort riddlin, pop prozac, drink as much beer or wine as your liver can stand and inhale three packs of cigarettes a day...but you can't legally buy a joint?!?

if we had somehow remained independent through all this we wouldn't be so pathetic an animal. we would have elders that were wise, that would guide us in being wise, so we could guide our children, etc. instead were bitching about health care and social security, and STILL wondering when the next bomb will fall. it drives me nuts!

anyone out there read "the last american man" by eustis conway???

333

[Ben K]

it pisses me off that were treated like a bunch of degenerate [edit] children. it's okay for everyone to spew fossil fuels into the air 24-7, dump tankers full of the [edit] into the sky before landing, guzzle down sugar-acid sodas ritualistically, snort riddlin, pop prozac, drink as much beer or wine as your liver can stand and inhale three packs of cigarettes a day...but you can't legally buy a joint?!?

if we had somehow remained independent through all this we wouldn't be so pathetic an animal. we would have elders that were wise, that would guide us in being wise, so we could guide our children, etc. instead were bitching about health care and social security, and STILL wondering when the next bomb will fall. it drives me nuts!


333

WORD  

I think what we are seeing right now is a clash of old vs. new. As soon as we get a lib in the office i think we will see mj decriminilized. IMO, i dont see how it can stay illigal for another 20 years. We are already seeign medical mj in ALOT of states, and that number is only going yo increase.

[Nay]

I thought Harry's was just a Farmers Market, not a healthfood store, it is just chaulk full of wonderful fresh produce and seafood.

I love getting a box of raw oysters for $20 bucks, you really can't beat that!

Eh anyhoo, ya got me thinking about going there today..lol

Nay

[Souljah333]

as i've mentioned i don't trust any of it. i think it should all be dissolved...then again i should probably just live on a deserted island. doesn't matter who's in the hot seat...they've been bought and sold a million times over by then. that's really the top priority. there is never going to be any "people's president" as long as this government is in power. we saw that plain and simple with bush (twice). they were mocking us. i don't vote...i don't like the choices! i'll gladly stand beside my brothers (and sisters) in arms though and tear the excrement down!!! 2008 and we'll see we're being played worse than ever before. you'll have the anal, closet femme fatal, just-say-no, democrat hillary, and the chauvinistic, megalomaniac, pro-pot, nazi worshiper arnold.  i'd rather break the law and grow my own...then have to play a hand in that.

[Hans Solo]

I can probably help you with this question.  I have done pot, shrooms, Salvia, and Kava kava (chopped up root from Vanuatu-the ONLY place to get it).  

First off, NOTHING compares to Shrooms, but hey if you want to try Salvia then I hope I can help.  I got mine off of Ebay, both a plant and a variety pack of 5X, 10X, 15X, and straight leaf.  Anyway, I did it with one of my friend and I have to say that It worked, but for like 20 seconds AT MOST.  The people that say it last like 10 minutes must have lungs like a f*ing hot air ballon.  

My first trip with it.  I was mowing a lawn with the old type lawnmower with the shears and I was dressed like Truman from the Truman show (I was in the suburbs) I saw the people that were in the room with me on the other side of a white picket fence.  Total elapsed time 5 seconds.  It FEELS like you were there for 10 minutes through the emotions that you perceive.  

Second trip.  I inhale and hold until I am about to explode.  Suddenly, everything starts to slow down and the air feels thick.  Then everything in the room (except for people) turn into very advanced Lego creations.  Total time:3 seconds.

Another thing, is that you have to do a LOT of perceiving with Salvia because emotions come through easier than visuals.  This is why you cant trust any of the information that comes across from other people, because alot of it is overlayed with their beliefs and paradigms.  This is why i always laugh reading the hippy trip reports because they say stuff like, "Now I know what the Salvia God told me to do:  Save the planet, free all animals from medical research labs and as pets, and spread the word of Marxism"  Little does the reader know this person is a part of Earth liberation front, PETA, and a communist.  He has overlay ed this information that came from his subconscious, and acted as if it came from "SALVIA LAND".  These people are basically doing drunk "astral Travel" in focus 1oc , or FOcus 2oC in Franks model.  Hardly information that you cant get from being and amateur phaser.

I Personally don't do drugs anymore, but if any shrooms come around I'd be game.  Also, Kava Kava ROCKS (if you are not on depression medicine-read the harmful things to combine it with).  To get great Kava Kava go to Nakamal (Website by the same name?)  Kava Kava totally relaxes you body while keeping your mind wide awake (like the Alpha brain wave state) , however you don't need to do anything to keep it there.  The only problem is that it is a process to make, and I am a little unmotivated to make it.

Salvia is over rated  and taste like sh*t , but good luck

i don't vote...i don't like the choices! i'll gladly stand beside my brothers (and sisters) in arms though and tear the [edit] down!!! 2008 and we'll see we're being played worse than ever before. you'll have the anal, closet femme fatal, just-say-no, democrat hillary, and the chauvinistic, megalomaniac, pro-pot, nazi worshiper arnold. i'd rather break the law and grow my own...then have to play a hand in that

SoulJah-  Wow, slow down bro!  You might want to step away from the radio playing Alex Jones for just a second to get your wits about you.  Whats wrong with Pro-Pot (Alex Jones is for legalization-I assume your a fan of his), if not it is still a good position.  ALso, Why don't you vote Libertarian.  They definately don't support the "NEW WORLD ORDER" , or big government.  Grow some for me too, great cash crop $$ .   Just a thought.

USe the force, feel the flow,

Han Solo

[G3MM4]

it pisses me off that were treated like a bunch of degenerate [edit] children. it's okay for everyone to spew fossil fuels into the air 24-7, dump tankers full of the [edit] into the sky before landing, guzzle down sugar-acid sodas ritualistically, snort riddlin, pop prozac, drink as much beer or wine as your liver can stand and inhale three packs of cigarettes a day...but you can't legally buy a joint?!?

This is sounding like an extract from another thread I read on these forums about the pros/cons of drug usage... (not that I'm saying it's an extract, I'm not)

The people that say it last like 10 minutes must have lungs like a f*ing hot air ballon.

Try using a water pipe if it burns... (if that's what you meant...)

[Hans Solo]

I did use a water pipe.  All i meant was that you have to take humongous hits and hold them.  Also, you have to use a butane lighter.  It take more heat to activate (vaporize) Salvia A.  

Han Solo

[Souljah333]

it's sister not bro & i'm a C2C junkie, don't really have the patience for alex jones, but not opposed to his show. my wits are completely about me...thank you. my point wasn't against being pro-pot (obviously)...it was the BS that one would have to accept along "with" the legalization of pot. what other cards they're holding. i don't care for libertarians either...too much neal boortz maybe?!? hypocrites riding the fence, but you can argue that if you wish. i totally agree with doing whatever you want as long as your not hurting or imposing your will on another...but at the end of the day libertarians always seems to fall to one side of the fence or the other. anyway, like i said...i don't think it matters who the people vote for...they're still going to rework the numbers for whichever figure head suits them at the time. with more automation we have no say.

This is sounding like an extract from another thread I read on these forums about the pros/cons of drug usage... (not that I'm saying it's an extract, I'm not)

it probably is...you were probably reading another one of my posts. i tend to reiterate at times, esp. when my post keep disappearing.

i tend to lean towards shrums too, but that's just me. nice steady ride vs. the 3 second mac truck to the head.

[G3MM4]

I did use a water pipe.  All i meant was that you have to take humongous hits and hold them.  Also, you have to use a butane lighter.  It take more heat to activate (vaporize) Salvia A.  

Han Solo

Ah I see what you mean now. This may seem obvious to you, but might not be obvious to someone who knows very little about salvia. So I'd like to give the following advice to unexperienced users if that's okay.

The thing people need to remember with salvia is that one may not get much from a dose, while another may have a very intense experience.  This boils down to a number of factors such as, sensitivity of the user, the actual dosage being used and how it's ingested, and how experinced the user is, amongst other possible factors. I'd say that's true for pretty much any drug.

Some advice for unexperienced users: ALWAYS HAVE A SITTER PRESENT! Also, start off with a tiny amount, then add a bit more etc, if you don't feel anything happening.

I also want to say this: There (appartently) are 6 "levels" of effects possible.

These are:

(Extract from an article on Dr Bongs website)

Salvia Divinorum Level 1

This is a very mild effect. The user definitely knows "something is happening" and will feel more relaxed and experience a greater sensuality. At this level Salvia Divinorum may be considered an aphrodisiac.

Salvia Divinorum Level 2

At this level of intoxication the Salvia Divinorum user will find that their perception is mildly altered. More attention seems to be diverted to the senses, with a greater appreciation (and attention to) of music, textures, colours, occasionally smell. There are no hallucinations at this level but the user may experience an altered sense of space.

Salvia Divinorum Level 3

Visual hallucinations occur at this stage though the user is able to distinguish them from reality. Mostly these hallucinations occur when the eyes are closed. If the eyes are open the visuals are seen only briefly.

Salvia Divinorum Level 4

The Shamanistic dream state beloved of mystics. Intense visual hallucinations may be experienced accompanied by an intense dream like experience that, with eyes closed, may be felt as real. This is often described by people achieving this level as a spiritual experience with descriptions of spirit guides, angels (yes really!!), reliving past lives and even travelling to other times. This and the following level explains why the Shamans of the Mazatec Indians of Oaxaca have been using Salvia Divinorum for centuries.

Salvia Divinorum Level 5

This is like level 4 in many respects but more intense. In particular all contact with reality will be lost though the user remains conscious throughout. Like level 4 this is often described in spiritual terms. Some users have described it as "merging with God" and others have described it in ways reminiscent of Mescalin trips as described by Aldous Huxley. This is a very powerful experience and it is strongly advised to have someone with you during this level.

Salvia Divinorum Level 6

Avoid this level

There is absolutely no point in journeying to this level as the user will be totally unable to recall it afterwards.

There is a genuine risk of harm if the user is alone at this level as injuries may be sustained from falls and uncontrolled movements.

As we have said before treat Salvia Divinorum with great respect

I'll make it clear that I haven't used salvia yet, but am planning to at some point. The information I gave above derives from research that I've done so far. It would seem that a lot of first-time users tend to go up to level 5 from what the majority of them describe. Some of them have made the mistake of not having a trusted person to sit with them while they experience the effects of salvia, even though the effectsd last for a short time. I've also read that several of them were unlucky enough to have terrifying experiences (possibly due to the fact that they used the wrong approach - attitude wise - or they were in the wrong mood, or other possible factors). Equally, some of them were lucky enough to have a pleasant experience.

I think it's probably safe to say that you need to approach using salvia with no expectations (or as little as possible), and make sure you are in the right frame of mind (whatever that is). And be prepared for the unexpected. Again, that's true of any drug that you use (imho).

However, it's been said that this is a drug in a league of it's own.

Take what you will from my long-ish post, lol.

[FEMMSTARR]

?

I'm basically going to use this for meditation enhancement. I meditate daily and I just sit and nothing happens. I can't focus and I can never sit still. It's so frign hard for me to relax. So the next best thing for me to do is resort to drugs. So be it.

So I'm going to experiment with Salvia. If that doesn't work, I'll try something else. Now I'm not looking for green men from Mars. Just the ability to focus a little better.

Salvia, what do you think? I've also heard of another plant called
Kratom. Anybody have any luck with that?

I regret to try to resort to having to use drugs to focus and perhaps have an OBE, however I am frustrated with not being able to progress. It's been months and months of practice and I still can't relax well.

Kevin

I can tell you the salvia I got from iamshaman was worthless didnt feel a thing and didnt help to meditate at all
I got the bud itself and then some of the 5x and no good at all