Need some OOBE Expert Advice

[Leviiathan]

Okay, let's try something a little more open-ended:

What problems did Projectioners first experience and how did they overcome them? It seems no one's responding to my questions. Is it because they can't relate, or because they don't know? Or is it because they feel my questions don't warrant an answer?

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan:
Okay, let's try something a little more open-ended:

What problems did Projectioners first experience and how did they overcome them? It seems no one's responding to my questions. Is it because they can't relate, or because they don't know? Or is it because they feel my questions don't warrant an answer?

Hey there....

I just hadn't responded because I've been very busy.  The main problem that plagued me for a very long time was getting my vision.  You can do a search through all my posts on this forum to see how I overcame that (basically by remaining calm and taking a few deep astral breaths).

Now I still battle with getting out of the black void without becoming disorientated and losing control.  This doesn't happen all the time, but every now and then, I blow a good experience by not being able to convert this emptiness into something visual and tangible.

To answer your ROPE question, I can't really help you there, since I don't use the ROPE technique.  For me, I usually roll out of my body, because it's very natural and something that we're used to doing everyday when we get out of bed.  I don't know about you, but climbing a rope is just not something I'm used to!



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Frank]

It's because I can't relate.

Yours,
Frank

[fURIX]

Yeah, I agree with Jeff. The R.O.P.E technique never worked for me neither simply because It does'nt feel natural (atleast to me, it dont). I had a technique wich worked wonders. If you have like a doubledecker-bed (not a necessity) you would be lying in the lower bed, then go into a trance for some while and when you felt like you were ready, you would try to imagine and "feel" like being in the upper bed. This used to start the exit-reflex instantly. (although I never acomplished AP because of the unoticable tensioning of muscles.) but I always got the exit-reflex, and heavily too.

(Now, for some reason it does'nt work for me anymore.  So now I have spontanous OBE's by just creating the right conditions and that usualy WORKS)

Anyways, the best thing is to make up your own technique wich contains actions that you are used to and can easily imagine and feel.
Also I think that people (including myself) have a tendancy to break out of the trance when the exit-reflex starts, because they start to think about everything they must do, like: "Oh, somethings happening, now! Ohh... strong vibrations! Im floating... yeah.. Im gonna make it now... gotta keep calm... dont strain my muscles! ...common... just a little bit more, now!! ....hmph... what the hell is this crap, Im back in bed..." I've noticed by myself that often by the "Oh something is happening"-point, the trance has almost already been broken there, because of the alertness. To awoid alertness is a must, but you  must also keep the awareness. Tricky? YES, but I guess thats just the way it is, man

[Leviiathan]

About ROPE: Yeah,  find it doesn't work for me either. Robert Bruce makes it seem so easy, but there are so many complications involved that just fook up the entire thing for me.

Now, let's move onto something else. I guess if we can go over problems part by part, I can gradually move on. One thing that plagues me is the relaxation step.

I believe I have a couple techniques, which do bring about an effect.

Technique #1 Most of the time, I don't even relax my muscles. I just lay there, and attempt to ROPE or even more so, apply a pushing-force down on myself (bring about an inner awareness). Given a few minutes, my muscles start to relax by themselves. Yeah, I know I should relax before hand, but sometimes I find I can just lay there, and focus, and the mental effort will cause my body to relax automatically.

Technique #2 ~ Breathing Awareness First off, could someone refresh my memory on how to do this properly? I hear some people saying that it takes about 10 minutes or so of this for the body to take over naturally. I experimented with that last night, but I found that it didn't happen. I find with this technique is that it sets me a drift. I'm not aiming for anything, so gradually, I just phase out of consciousness. Of course, when this is actually happening, I'm still aware (or alert?), but it is only until I've had to get out of my position that I can barely remember the last few minutes (or rather, last 15 minutes) of my ordeal. I guess. I find that when I try and breathe in and out slowly, it comes out feeling forced; and when I breathe in and out naturally, I don't breathe in deep enough (I take small, short breathes).

Other Before I lay down, I tense up my muscles a bit (usually twice), then lay down. Then I somehow manage to calm my body (I guess that's just by breathing normally). By calming, I mean that it gradually just relaxes itself from just being there.

All 3 things above lead to the same general situation from me. My body will begin to relax, and my muscles will begin to fall asleep. I assume regardless of how relaxed I get that I still maintain a light trance the entire time (Alpha Waves?) simply because I fail to experience that boxed-in, sensation of falling. It happened once to me, the first time I tried Robert's "pushing inward, falling effect", but alas, I cannot repeat this experience easily.

With the falling attempt, I find that eventually I just hit a point where I lose my sense of direction and that I become disoriented. I can't seem to apply a strong force (sensation) upon my body anymore. Any attempt to do this, will come around as a sort of weak mental attempt. And as the story goes, my mind then starts to wander to find ways to push down upon myself (at first, I may be focusing only in first person at a single point of my body), then I'll suddenly have a greater awareness of my body (thinking that I can induce a falling sensation by placing a pushing-down-effect on my entire body rather than focusing inward).

Other Concerns ~ Eyes and Jaw and My General Face area. Yes, I've found that throughout the ordeals above that my lower body can suddenly feel heavy and relaxed, whereas my facial area, particularly my mouth, maintains the entire sensation of feeling the total opposite of this. It seems like that part just cannot relax. During this time, I also find that I have to swallow a lot, or gulp. There is also the back area of my nasal passage, which is connected to my throat. Usually, it feels like there's something stuck at the end of my nasal passage, just at the top of my throat, and it's lodged there. What usually happens is that I snort a bit (or something) to try and dislodge it in that way. Perhaps the vibrations caused by doing this is preventing my face from relaxing. Either way, I can do nothing but think.. ugh...

[fURIX]

Yeah I have about the same problems as you have...

quote: I assume regardless of how relaxed I get that I still maintain a light trance the entire time (Alpha Waves?) simply because I fail to experience that boxed-in, sensation of falling.

Sometimes I just imagine that my whole bed (or chair) starts to sink slowly but slightly accelerating into the ground. This usualy gives me a slight falling sensation. Then there is the matter of maintaining it. And there comes the breathing issue. It's like you said if you breath kinda heavily, it will soon come out forced, and if natural, it becomes to soft... I find that when the breathing becomes to weak, I usually get very restless and sometimes I'll start yawning.
Its a ballance I guess...

When it comes to relaxing the facial area, I know that can be very difficult I think because of to reasons: (Im not a doctor or anything, but...)
1. Facial muscles. There are hundreds of them(...or at least quite a bunch) , right.
2. Most of them are tiny, compared to the muscles around the rest of your body (like arms and legs).
To locate and feel each and everyone of them, and then to relax them, muscle by muscle seems like and almost impossible task. When the body goes into deep sleep, it shuts off all the muscle's (exept the inner vital ones) so that you wont trash around or start sleepwalking when you are dreaming. I think that includes the facial too. That would at least explain why, sometimes when Im lying on my back and start dozing off, and I can sudernly wake up because Im snorring. Thats means my uvula must be completely ralaxed, and after what I've heard, that is the only way snorring can occur. Perhaps that is the only way all the facial muscles can be fully relaxed too. But you should be able to relax them to some extent in trance too, I would think. But it is alot harder, yes.   ...I know..

[Leviiathan]

Right now I'm experimenting with the BW Generator. The last time I used it, I was able to bring my body to a very deep relaxed state, where I felt stretched out, and it was almost to the point where I couldn't feel them. If I am correct, that should be the point just where I would start entering Beta (where the falling sensation begins to manifest itself). I was around that state.

I'd like to extent some learning more on the breathing awareness because I think that could really help me. Today, I did some research and came across a site that gave Robert Monroe's tech, saying you breathe in, say 1, breathe out, say 2, breathe in, say 3, and continue on to about 50 or 100. I got to 100, but I was still very much aware of the external stimuli going on around me.

I also found that no matter how relaxed my muslces were, they would still tense sometimes (well, my facial... that was where most of it was happening. My other muslces weren't really a concern. I more or less found that they could react).

I also notice that by this point I'm too relaxed in mind to even put in a good enough effort mentally to project. And I find that techniques such as Bob Peterson's YoYo tech, and the "Picture yourself outside your body" and "Roll out of your body" techs are ridiculous at this point and hence ineffective. I did however do something interesting.

I was laying there, and I started spinning my body around, which brought about a mild sense of vertigo, and I found it seemed to work pretty well. I wasn't aiming for anything in particular, I was just more or less spinning my direction/body in a centrifuge. Perhaps I'm on to something.

More onto breathing awareness: I'd like to hear more on this, perhaps some in depth advice about how it can be done, more or less by someone who can relate to my situation.

[Leviiathan]

Let's raise the bar a bit... I first started doing this type of thing around 5 years ago. I usually fall out of habit for a few months... there was a time when I fell out of habit for about 2 - 3 years, so I am hardly new to this type of thing.

[Leviiathan]

Well, I just tried doing another meditative session. This is what I did, and this is what I got:

I basically laid down on my bed and started breathing in and out. It took about 2 minutes for my mind to numb... I hope you people know what I'm talking about when I say numb. I'm still aware, but my mind/head starts to feel thickened a bit/numb... I guess that's just it relaxing. Sorta like something's put a blanket over my mind... feels rather blocky.

Anyway, moving on, I just did this: Breathed in and out, while applying a general light falling sensation upon myself. I just focused on this, and was rather passive throughout the entire case and just let my body casually glide / drift along.

It got to a point where I started to begin to feel the falling sensations associated with Beta. Although they never deepened, the point of the matter is that I started to feel them (a sort of automatic drifting downward). Had I continued, I would have probably inauguarated a deeper sensation of falling, but before anything could happen, I experienced a flashing sensation where everything suddenly lit up for 1 second. My body also jolted, and at the same time, I heard a voice (I forget the word that was said). I think after that, it wrecked my focus.

This was about 1/2 an hour.
Anyway, this may sound like a n00b talking, but I'm merely trying to outline my progress, the development so that others can follow and perhaps comment as they go along, give me support, give me some direction.

~Levii~

[fURIX]

About the flash thing. Bruce talks about the same thing in the AD book. He sais it can be a sign of clairvoyance. Its called the "strobe-effect". When one of your primary energy-centers accumulates a certain amount of enregy, it will strobe its energy upward into higher centers. Thats probably what causes it. I have experienced small flashes, but thats all. And that was during energy work in trance-meditation.

[Leviiathan]

Alright, here's my situation.

What I can do:
Focus well enough so that I can pull on the R.O.P.E. and lift myself up. I can do this over and over again and maintain focus.

Concerns I am Experiencing:

1) I find that the stress of this, exerted onto my body (mental pressure) is causing my body to automatically react by thrusting itself up. The first few times this happened, I didn't realize this was the case. My mistake in mind was that I was experiencing some kind of separation stress / split effect. I, however, was wrong. I found that if I stopped and relaxed my muscles, I'd drop back into my bed. My arms, face, legs, and back muscles in particular were to blame.

I am aware that one should check to see if their muscles are tensing as they are going along. That however, brings about a distraction and takes away from the one single focus I should be setting my mental efforts on (R.O.P.E.).

2) I'm confused about what separation is like. As I climb ROPE, my body begins to go through the usual symptoms (The Heart Starts Pumping Madly, I start to feel "WHOOSH" effect, whereas it feels like parts of my body are loosening in response to ROPE. Sometimes, it feels like I start convulsing / shaking (particularly with my head). I start to breathe heavily, not that it bothers me. I, however, am still aware of my breathing, even as I am going through these things. I must raise an eyebrow to this technique, because I sure as hell don't know when the separation occurs, or rather, what is truly going on. All I know is that as long as I'm breathing, and air is going into my lungs, I'm still in my body. Where does the transition point out of the body occur, and when will I know (if for me the indicator is what happens with the breathing in my body)?

3) Also, any techniques that could bring me down into some altered states of consciousness could be favourable. With the "Falling Sensation" techs, I find that I can only go to a certain point (yes, my muscles are relaxed deeply, but they still react when I go to project) where the falling tech is not working because my body is too relaxed to feel this force... and then there is the sensation of vertigo.

Thankyou to anyone who helps me. If you wish, you can also contact me on aim.