Can't enter Trance (Someone wanna help me?)

[Donna]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan:
Alright... I made a topic earlier, so I'm more or less branching out into a topic that addresses a specific problem most of you should be able to relate to.

I find that the technique that works best for me is generally a combination of breathing in and out, followed by the falling effect. I lay down, I so I just feel my bed falling for a second in between breathes (feel the force that is).


Hi there Leviiathan,
My, my this sounds so busy. When a person lies down to go to sleep, it takes about 20 minutes for the natural chemicals the brain releases (melatonin and others)  to begin their work. Actually it is the darkness, behind closed eyes, that causes these chemicals to begin to alter our state of conciousness, as in meditation.


The problem is that I can't seem to transcend into Beta. I can come close at times, but most of the time, I cannot. It's frustrated, and it's hindering my ability to get to a sufficient level where I can AP properly.

The intent is important, to calm the mind and let it happen. Perhaps just to watch the darkness behind your eyes, as you "wait" for the calming effect of your own natural body chemicals  to kick in

Hoping to help,
Donna

[Tom]

You said beta. Try hyperventilating and getting really mad about something. You might even reach gamma, which is 50 Hz or higher. While you are reading this, you are in beta.

[Leviiathan]

Here, let me post something. This might help people help me. In Step 4, I usually just linger and try and let the process happen all by itself. If it ever did, I wouldn't be asking for help.

Of course, there has been 1 or 2 occassions where I've let myself fall asleep accidentally only to be awoken suddenly by the heavy sense of falling associated with beta. That happened last time I did ROPE, which was a week ago. I tried APing that night, because I had a lot of energy (that I had to vent), and for the next hour after that, I'd fall alseep and be immediately awoken by that exact same thing.

But I'm not aiming for this. No, I want to be able to enter it manually... in steps... without falling asleep.

[Leviiathan]

Hmmn... maybe I have it mixed around on what the states are called. Generally, I'm trying to reach the state where you start to feel boxed in and you go through that falling sensation, and in eventual, reach the one beyond it (where you loose complete awareness of everything around you).

[Leviiathan]

Here's what I posted in another thread. I'm on step 4. I'm aiming to get into step 5 / 6, which I've only obtained a few times in my experiences.

I find that the same thing happens to me. I can enter a light trance state, but go no further. I find that acting passively to induce a falling state works best for me rather than a direct and aggressive manor (as Robert Bruce suggests, to tackle these things, you have to be assertive). I find that if I act passively, it can be slow, but at least it allows my body to drift into a light slumber, and it calms my mind somewhat.

I've had times where my mind's been assaulted by "visions". More or less, I can describe this as where scenarios will start playing through my head, almost as if I were watching a vivid memory. Perhaps this is hypnogogic imagery at hand... but at a light trance state?

As you transcend into trance, this is the order of things you will experience:

1) Your muscles will relax
2) Your muscles will start to fall asleep (basically, as you go through meditation, they become heavier, and you can feel them less and less.
3) Your mind/head will start to feel numb and your consciounsess wil most likely, at this point, have become a single point focused narrowly on a limited space.
4) At this point, if you're like me, attempts to induce a falling sensation will fail and you'll hit an equilibrium point where you just linger. Here, it's hard to induce further falling sensations either due to loss of direction / vertigo, or because it has somehow lost its effect / mind is relaxed. At this point, if this happens, you may attempt to seek other alternatives to take yourself further. 10 minutes later, after achieving nothing, I usually just give up.

5) If you manage to get around #4, you'll begin to feel boxed in. It's a very unique feeling that is un-mistakable. When you feel it, you'll feel it. You start to feel more of an omni-present darkness around you (three dimensional void), and within it, a limited sense of being confined to a single radius. Robert Bruce describes this sensation as someone having taken a box and put it over your head (hence, you're boxed in).

6) Continue further, and you'll start to feel a sense of free fall dawning upon you. It's also an unmistakable feeling that, to newcomers, will excite them and cause them to fook up things completely. I've gotten this far only once or twice, and haven't been able to get back here since.

[mayhem]

When you're awake and relaxing you're usually going to be in an alpha state. When we learn or study usually we're in a beta state. I believe you're trying to access theta levels which are 4-7hz (brainwave activity).... Alpha is 7-14hz I believe and beta is slightly higher than that. Anyways I found BWGEN to be very helpful, I had no success until recently I found some good presets... A few nights ago a layed down put this preset on with some babbling brook sounds and within 20-30 minutes my body had fallen asleep and I was still awake. This was extremely weird for me as it was the first time for me. PM me if you'd like these presets or help getting bwgen to work for you....

[Donna]

quote:

I've had times where my mind's been assaulted by "visions". More or less, I can describe this as where scenarios will start playing through my head, almost as if I were watching a vivid memory. Perhaps this is hypnogogic imagery at hand... but at a light trance state?

Yes.


As you transcend into trance, this is the order of things you will experience:

4) At this point, if you're like me, attempts to induce a falling sensation will fail and you'll hit an equilibrium point where you just linger. Here, it's hard to induce further falling sensations either due to loss of direction / vertigo, or because it has somehow lost its effect / mind is relaxed. At this point, if this happens, you may attempt to seek other alternatives to take yourself further. 10 minutes later, after achieving nothing, I usually just give up.

At the point above, you have reached the plateau where your "intent" should take you where you will.

5) If you manage to get around #4, you'll begin to feel boxed in. It's a very unique feeling that is un-mistakable. When you feel it, you'll feel it. You start to feel more of an omni-present darkness around you (three dimensional void), and within it, a limited sense of being confined to a single radius. Robert Bruce describes this sensation as someone having taken a box and put it over your head (hence, you're boxed in).

This for me, is the beginning of the entrance into the "void" with swirling colors which seems to be a portal to a starscape. I do feel enclosed in it.

6) Continue further, and you'll start to feel a sense of free fall dawning upon you. It's also an unmistakable feeling that, to newcomers, will excite them and cause them to fook up things completely. I've gotten this far only once or twice, and haven't been able to get back here since.

This is for me, a definate feeling of rapid "movement"   usually again, for me, in a forward direction. This is followed by an arrival into a starscape, where my intention to arrive at my destination is acheived shortly after this stage..
Does this sound familiar?
Donna

[Leviiathan]

Donna: At point 4, I am still not ready to AP. I need to go further within, to the point where my body is completely asleep and I am experiencing the paralysis. At this stage, I am relaxed, and should be trying to enter the state of void, as described by you. I'm not sure what you mean by "intent taking you where you want to go." Elaborate on this a little bit more, because this is rather open-ended and tells me nothing at present. You may be on to something, so I need you to tell me more about what you are meaning by this. Give some explanation. About the "starscape", I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been into the void state, but don't recall a starscape of any kind. And yes, the falling-inward sensation is somethign I would like to be able to repeat easily. I need to get from point 4 to point 6 somehow. There must be something my technique that is wrong, some minor thing I need to adjust so I can achieve it...

[Kodemaster]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan:
Alright... I made a topic earlier, so I'm more or less branching out into a topic that addresses a specific problem most of you should be able to relate to.

I find that the technique that works best for me is generally a combination of breathing in and out, followed by the falling effect. I lay down, I so I just feel my bed falling for a second in between breathes (feel the force that is).

The problem is that I can't seem to transcend into Beta. I can come close at times, but most of the time, I cannot. It's frustrated, and it's hindering my ability to get to a sufficient level where I can AP properly.

Leviiathan,

You might want to try a hypnosis CD. Paul McKenna makes some excellent ones. Even though hypnosis and trance aren't one in the same, it can help your body develop trance capabilities.

Jeni

[Donna]

quote:Originally posted by Leviiathan:
Donna: At point 4, I am still not ready to AP. I need to go further within, to the point where my body is completely asleep and I am experiencing the paralysis. At this stage, I am relaxed, and should be trying to enter the state of void, as described by you. I'm not sure what you mean by "intent taking you where you want to go." Elaborate on this a little bit more, because this is rather open-ended and tells me nothing at present. You may be on to something, so I need you to tell me more about what you are meaning by this. Give some explanation.

One of the lessons taught by the higher realm angels in etheral school I attended was: "Where ever your attention goes, your conciousness will follow."  So at the stage of beginning to lose physical body conciousness and becoming more concious of my thoughts, when the void presents itself my "intent" is to enter it. If your intent is to do anything else then that is what your conciousness will try to achieve. You are in the drivers seat. At this point where you are still half aware of the physical body, intent will and attention to "going" in any direction you choose is open to you. I personally enter the void, portal, swirling tunnel of blue, gold, white and violet light, which exits in a starscape for me. By this time I have lost all conciousness of my body, and all that is "me" is "there". This is often where I will meet my guide, or direct my "intent" to arriving at my pre-written or pre-spoken destination.


About the "starscape", I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been into the void state, but don't recall a starscape of any kind. And yes, the falling-inward sensation is somethign I would like to be able to repeat easily. I need to get from point 4 to point 6 somehow. There must be something my technique that is wrong, some minor thing I need to adjust so I can achieve it...

[Leviiathan]

Well, my situation is very much different, Donna. In my dealings with New Age spiritualism, I have found that every single person has different experiences. What is occuring to you has not been occuring to me. Hopefully, however, I will indeed start experiencing something interesting soon enough. If what you say is true, then being the driver, I should naturally be able to "eventually loose" all awareness of my physical body.

But that explanation does not necessarily work for me. Recently, I have discovered two overbalanced scenarios that have been like brick walls to any attempts I've made to progress.

In scenario 1, I enter the light trance state and, even though I am still aware of my body and things around me, choose to try and AP. The sad prospect is that my muscles react and I am tricked into feeling a separation force, which in actuality is nothing more than the stress of my muscles reacting to my mental efforts. In other words, "mind over matter" has prevailed, where the sheer will of my mind has caused my body to try and propel itself in the direction I am trying to separate into. This failed approach is one I refuse to go by anymore. It does not work, in any way, shape or form for me. One cannot simply AP like this!

In scenario 2, I manage to go deeper into myself, but find that when even as I am in a comfortable state, I simply cannot project because my mind is either not focused enough, or because it does not have the energy/will to! This is the fallacy of being passive. Because I am not in an actively alert, ready, and motivated state, I lack the incentive to thrust myself upward (on the ROPE) pull by pull.

Scenario 1 - I have the strength of mind, but lacking the strength of body (and by strength of body, I mean that it has the strength NOT to react).

Scenario 2 - I have the strength of body (it is relaxed), but ironically not the strength of mind (to go through with anything).

So, what we have here is an equilibrium shift of will into either a sound state of body, or a sound state of mind.

And in either case, my body is not even fully asleep!!

Now, let's move on.

First and foremost, I want to outline to everyone why ROPE simply does NOT work for me.

1) To ROPE, you need a very focused, very alert, and very ready mind. This comes from being set in a ready to go, direct, aggressive mind-state. To enter trance in order to climb Rope,  find that I must be passive. Everyone here points out that you must be in a passive-mind state. In climbing the ROPE, passitivity is not an option

2) Passitivity causes my mind to wander. I'll be climbing the ROPE, and naturally, I'll sometimes picture it... the shape. It comes naturally and is something I cannot avoid. Robert says "don't picture it". As I try to climb it, a light turns on in my head where the ROPE appears in shape and my mind begins to play with it (ever try climbing a ROPE that does not sit straight? yes, I've experienced this, and it's frustrating).

3) Because I am passive, I cannot exert a powerful enough stress on my body. Since I cannot do this, it's like nothing is happening, hence I am just wasting my energy on a useless baseless effort. I can raise myself, but I cannot apply the sensation of climbing... the translation of physical exertation to mental boundaries. I've triedt climbing a wall, like spiderman does... and I find that works better... but I find that is more ridiculous than ROPE.

4) How long does it take for me to suddenly fall out of habit and fall out of focus in ths case? Well, if I'm in a passive state, not very long. In fact, I can't hold it very long in the passive state. My mind just falls into its void-state equilibrium and I sit there until I get bored and decide to conclude my session.

-------

Last night, I made a number of observations.

1) I experience hypnogogic states in light trance, when I am still completely aware of my body, and when I am not deeply relaxed. My mind is partially numb. Normally, I came to think that by following such distractions, it would breake my focus and bonk up everything for me (AP, I guess, but in this case, I wasn't trying to AP). Naturally, I just started letting these scenes play out. Here we'd have an image appear, another, a toy plane fly by and disappear, and more stuff happen. More and more things happened, and I found that the speed of things picked up, and they grew more vivid, and more deep (an increasing sense of depth. Like, I had a toy plane fly towards me, and I was completely aware of it flying past me and flying behind me. It was really werd! It was as if the borders of imagination expanded and the seemingly three-dimensional void grew a new defined series of three-dimensions. It's like taking a cube, and sensing all this stuff extend beyond it. Not that I was dreaming at this point, I was still very much in a light trance state. This interested me nontheless, and I ended up falling out of it. While this was happening, I observed no apparent change in my physical body, or state of mind. I neither grew heavier, nor less aware of my body. I did, however, observe this hypnogogia incline increasingly intense, however.

2) I find I can induce free fall vertigo without even having my muscles relax to a suitable level of deep relaxation (though still in light trance). This was my technique, something I believe I tried the first time, and something that most prominently works. It's simple, easy, effective, and it works. I stupify my mind, keep it clear, and just simply being aware. The maelstrom of common thought becomes a clear sky of emptiness. For newcomers, that's a skill developed over time, through things, such as breath awareness. Needless to say, my mind is calm. And from this calm state, I breathe in, and breathe out in moderate breathes. The key is to maintain this state, which is very easy. In fact, if I keep my mind calm, and play dead, my mind goes numb... and I assume half-awareness. You are still aware, but at the same time, you are not fully aware. I focus my awareness within my head, and as I breathe out, drop it a bit. I like to refer to this simple technique as Leveling, simply because I am dropping levels. When I am breathing in, I hold that position of awareness, and when I breathe out, my awareness drops until I stop breathign. This is just as Robert has said, except that I seem to elaborate more on it. Eventually, I hit free-fall, but surprisingly, it feels like I'm still in a light trance state. The only difference is, I am just experiencing a combination of heavy vertigo / dizziness, and free fall. I must ask... what is this? What does it mean to have your mind transcend boundaries, but not have your body? My body should have been more relaxed than what it was.

3) This is definitely a solid reminder on my behalf: I can bring myself to relax, but through passive methods, I am brought about to linger aimlessly... regardless of what methods I pull. That is why I am stuck.


I forget what else I wanted to say. This is about it.

[Leviiathan]

One reason I'd like some help in developing breathing awareness further. If ind that when I go deep into myself (via light trance / trance at all), that I get distracted by 1) my breathing and 2) my heart rate. Somehow, my heart beat is more profound and more noticable, and somehow, it beats a bit faster than usual. Usually, I'm calm and in a state of passiveness, and over the years, have gotten rather used to these things, such as trance (vibes are a different matter... I'm not ready to get into that area of conversation), so generally, that couldn't work for an explanation (excitement, fear).

[auraseer]

Hi,
The technique I use to go into a good trance state is:

Tense all of your muscles in your body and stop tensing them. Do this for about 5 times. Then you have to lie on a bed or sit on a chair. I, personally use a bed as it is more relaxing. Then do the falling effect and you should start to feel heavy. You should have your eyes 3/4 closed while doing this. Then you should be really rlaxed and go into a trance.

Im not sure if this is a trance or something else, but it helped me to relax and concentrate on doing an OBE.

Cya,
auraseer.

Please visit my website at http://www.geocities.com/kitechniques
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Thou rage overcomes, Thy fate is near.

The energy is inside all of us... you just have to let it out.
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[wierdzly]

Interesting website auraseer. I have a book called Empty Force The Ultimate Martial Art. I lost interest because it requires hours of holding postures (like the Tree posture) every day for months if not years. Sounds very similiar. Have you become proficeint enough to validate it?

WEIRDZLY!

[Leviiathan]

I reread Robert's PDF Treastie the other day (last night namely), so I am convinced that my problems have entirely to do with 1) lack of enthusiam / motivation (and) 2) Relaxation problems.

The technique for inducing light-trance (i.e. inward falling effect when breathing out) is the most simplist and ideal way of going inward. It works for me, but I need to find ways to relax my body more, find how to propely induce the falling sensations correctly.

As for relaxation, I'm trying to develope relaxing my body using my "mental hands". Hopefully, in due time, I'll gain a very strong aptitude in doing this. For anyone else who has taken the time to develope a mental hands-relaxation tech, how long did it take before you were able to relax your body in 2 - 3 minutes and very deeply as Robert indicated?

I also started channelling work again last night in hopes that it would increase my ability to project in the long run, and increase my ability to relax my body / induce trance.

And for a change of pace, I'm going to try doing this all from a recliner position. If Robert has an easier time doing it, I'm sure I will. I find I get very confused and puzzled easily from a lay-down position. The reason why I get disoriented in my focuses / have a harder time is probably because, since I'm laying down, I can apply mental pressure to any part of my body (instead of just the forehead). You have narrowed focus that is pinpointed rather than spread out over a large area.

[Leviiathan]

Alright... I made a topic earlier, so I'm more or less branching out into a topic that addresses a specific problem most of you should be able to relate to.

I find that the technique that works best for me is generally a combination of breathing in and out, followed by the falling effect. I lay down, I so I just feel my bed falling for a second in between breathes (feel the force that is).

The problem is that I can't seem to transcend into Beta. I can come close at times, but most of the time, I cannot. It's frustrated, and it's hindering my ability to get to a sufficient level where I can AP properly.