Reincarnation, Humans and Animals

[narfellus]

This is a topic i'm trying to learn more about. Is it true that God Consciousness starts at the smallest conceivable level and slowly ascends through the mineral, plant, animal, human, spiritual world, and then to who knows where?  

Can people after they die choose to return as an animal? I heard that this was done sometimes in the cases of dolphins and whales when a soul wanted a break from human incarnation. Can it happen with any animal though? Do animals reincarnate in a similar way as humans?

I've heard conflicting information on this topic and wanted to put it out on the table for more knowledgable persons to help answer it.

[Aros]

Well, I can't claim to be more knowledgeable on the topic of transmigration than others but I personally believe that our Soul energies are not normally compatible with our animal friends. What's most important to a lot of people that I truly do believe is that our pets and animals DO have Souls.

Everything is composed of energy. That's a given. But where it gets hairy (for lack of a better term, har) is the different levels of energy. I think there are compatibility issues with energy just like there are compatibility issues with different software and hardware.

This could be a cosmic "splitting of hairs" argument but I do think there are levels and layers of Soul-energy that are only compatible with their own kind. Ultimately, we Are All One (in the highest of thinking) and ALL RETURNS TO THE ONE, but for the sake of argument, I do think animal and human Souls are of different energy types.

One final thought:

I DO believe IF the Soul truly desires to experience what it feels like to be the consciousness of a plant, rock or animal, they have that power to do so. Not to live an entire life that way but to share the essence of that particular consciousness if even for a moment.

[narfellus]

Thanks Aros. I was doubting that anyone would ever answer this thread. Seemed an interesting topic to me.

I agree with what you say concerning different energy "signatures".  We all indeed return to Oneness with Divinity at some point, humans and animals alike. I'm just having a hard time learning the intricate details of the process. Someone was even asking me about this last night and i could only answer, "I don't really know. Get back to you about that."

I DO believe IF the Soul truly desires to experience what it feels like to be the consciousness of a plant, rock or animal, they have that power to do so. Not to live an entire life that way but to share the essence of that particular consciousness if even for a moment.

In Hermetics it is part of the training to transport your consciousness into plants,  rocks, animals and even other people, to see what the universe looks like from their perspective. I am quite far i think from achieving such a goal, although it's reassuring (to me) to know that such feats are possible.

It's strange, i had another full post that has dissapeared. It contained a quote from Alice Bailey that shed a little light on the subject.

II. Christ Will Teach the Law of Rebirth

This Law is the major corollary of the Law of Evolution. It has never been grasped or properly understood in the West and, in the East, where it is acknowledged as a governing principle of life, it has not proved useful because it has been soporific in its effect, and a detriment to progress. The Eastern student regards it as giving him plenty of time; this has negated the driving effort to achieve a goal. The average Christian confuses the Law of Rebirth with what he calls "the transmigration of souls," and frequently believes that the Law of Rebirth signifies the passing of human beings into the bodies of animals or of lower forms of life. Such is by no means the case. As the life of God progresses onwards through [116] form after form, that life in the subhuman kingdoms of nature proceeds progressively from mineral forms into vegetable forms, and from these vegetable forms into animal forms; from the animal form stage, the life of God passes into the human kingdom, and becomes subject to the Law of Rebirth and not the law of Transmigration. To those who know something of the Law of Rebirth or of Reincarnation, the mistake seems ridiculous.

[Kazbadan]

I believe that we incarnate on these bodys because they are a reflex of our spirit.

For example, if you have a wild spirit with no self counscience maybe you will incarnate on an animal.

If you are a being totally aware of reality you will become a god, but if you are in the middle path you wil be a human.

What reeincarnates its not the personality but what its behind that, thing that we cal "me"  or "i". In the moment of death that "thing" will be confused and will forget things from the past, then it will reincarnate according to its karma.  I mean, if you die with a lucid mind and godness that means that your be more aware of your own fate and will have the luck to reincarnate in a better life. Its not a quetion of punishment or rewards..its more about you creating your own destiny.

I dont believe that people have the power to choose that much where they will reeincarnate. Maybe someone really bad bud with high selfcontrol may choose to reeincarnate on a beast or someting and a very god person may choose to "come back" to earth in order to help (like Dalai Lamas) people, but other people will be confused during death process. Their ego will be "disabled" for some time..only them during that "dancing" process they will be atracted to a life similar to their spirit.

Its for that reason that buddhists give so many importance to death..because in the moment you die you will carry with you the last thing you have when you were alive, you will carry your karma and actions.

These are just some ideas on reeincarnation..my ideas, i dont pretend to say that i understand more...just showing my view.

[narfellus]

It is a complicated process, Kazbadan. Thank you for sharing your view. The exact nature- the TRUTH- of the human/animal relationship, is what i'm trying to get at the heart at. At what point when and where, karmically, physically, mentally and spiritually are such transitions made, and when are there exceptions (which often seem to accompany every rule).

[kyo]

Greets,

I've expressed my views on this subject (or reincarnation and evolution) on a couple of threads :


Evolution and Serenissimus :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113602332


Incarnations, OverSouls and Eternity :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113196507


Clarification (via Byron Katie's Inquiry) :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1117041145


Sincerely,
Kyo

[kyo]

The exact nature- the TRUTH- of the human/animal relationship, is what i'm trying to get at the heart at. At what point when and where, karmically, physically, mentally and spiritually are such transitions made, and when are there exceptions (which often seem to accompany every rule).

So it's specifically the animal to human relationship you're interested in.

When would you say a particular high school student is ready to move on to college? You (assume you're a member of the local education authorities) might make your opinion based on a variety of criteria, but such criteria would vary from school to school, from college to college, from country to country.

The point is, there *isn't* a 'cast in stone' rule for any process, especially those involving the evolution of souls, and this certainly applies to the evolution of souls from species to species as well.

The essence and basic nature of animal souls and human souls are not different, no more than any two human souls are different from each other.

Hence, while we speak of soul groups or kingdoms, say the dog soul group, the bird/avian soul group, the human soul group, etc, this categorization is only one of convenience, and animal soul groups can, and do, move 'up' the evolutionary ladder to the 'human level', though this (transmigration) is certainly not limited towards only the human species on this planet Earth.

Meaning, that it is not necessarily the choice of for, say, a dog, to ever incarnate as a human on Earth.

But to address your question of interest more directly,

At what point when and where, karmically, physically, mentally and spiritually are such transitions made.

The answer :
When it is deemed, perceived, understood, or agreed, by the relevant guides & helpers (a generic term; there are guides & helpers of all species, for all species) of that soul, that the particular animal soul is 'ready' to incarnate as another species, (eg. a human); that is to say, if the next incarnation as a human would conceivably, reasonably and probably be of far greater benefit to the soul, in terms of evolution, than if that soul were to continue incarnating as the same animal species as previously.

So "karmically, mentally and spiritually", the soul in quesiton would have been deemed (ie. by both the soul itself as well as its guides & helpers, and evolutionary orientors), to have already successfully learnt almost eveything there is to learn, from experiencing incarnations as that species. Of course, and in addition, that soul has already balanced most of its karmic issues within that species, that is, no significant karmic ties (eg. with others of that species) holding it back, from moving on.


It's interesting that you have chosen to study this specific area of reincarnational mechanics, that of animal-human soul transmigration.

Perhaps if some of the IAC (International Acaedmy of Consciousness) courses and instructors might be helpful to your futhering your study of this area of Conscientiology.

Lastly, you might also like to ask Hilarion for his perspective on this subject (and in fact, any subject; personal, academic, scientific, extraterrestrial, etc) :

http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Hilarion


Sincerely,
Kyo

[narfellus]

Thank you, kyo. Your insights were very useful. It is indeed a topic i find of interest, and the more i learn myself the more i can share with others who ask. Like you did.

[kyo]

Hi again Narfellus,

I just noticed that I wrote :

Perhaps if some of the IAC (International Acaedmy of Consciousness) courses and instructors might be helpful to your futhering your study of this area of Conscientiology.

But I had neglected to provide the IAC links. Here are the links, for your perusal (the IAC offers courses relevant to Reincarnation & Evolution, the subject of interest) :


IAC publication - "Retrocognition - An Investigation into Memories of Past Lives and the Period in between Lives"
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm

IAC Courses (main) - Consciousness Development Course
http://www.iacworld.org/English/Courses/Core/CDPContents.asp

IAC Courses (optional) - Other (non-core) Courses
http://www.iacworld.org/English/Courses/Specialty/Default.asp

IAC Directory of Offices (International)
http://www.iacworld.org/English/Academy/FindingUs/Directory.asp

IAC Journal of Conscientiology subscription
https://www.iacworld.org/English/Shop/Cart.asp?sku=memassoci

IAC website
http://www.iacworld.org/


Sincerely,
Kyo

[Kazbadan]

Narfellus, i suggest some reading on buddhism theory since thhey (buddhists) have knowledge (acquired with direct experience sometimes) about reeincarnation processes.

[narfellus]

I've read and recorded in word documents (for later retrieval and perusal) several relevant threads. Thank you. The acquisition of knowledge is an evergoing process, one i realize now that will never really end. I suppose i'm in the infancy in the process and don't fully share what i know with others (lacking my full life's purpose) but is reassuring to know that i'm SOMEHOW along the path to perfection.

[narfellus]

Narfellus, i suggest some reading on buddhism theory since thhey (buddhists) have knowledge (acquired with direct experience sometimes) about reeincarnation processes.

I have a CD filled with Buddihism wisdom. It is a marvelous religion. Aside from the core truths of the Christ, Buddhism is probably one of the best religions. My own personal affection is drawn toward Hermetics, although i'm an infant along the path. But infancy is something atleast. We all must start somewhere.  

[narfellus]

The answer :
When it is deemed, perceived, understood, or agreed, by the relevant guides & helpers (a generic term; there are guides & helpers of all species, for all species) of that soul, that the particular animal soul is 'ready' to incarnate as another species, (eg. a human); that is to say, if the next incarnation as a human would conceivably, reasonably and probably be of far greater benefit to the soul, in terms of evolution, than if that soul were to continue incarnating as the same animal species as previously.
Kyo

I'm throwing this totally out on the table...

I own a pug that is treated as humanly as possible, by myself and others. She's allowed most human interactions and attention (other than sex). Would this theoretically place her in line with evolving into human species?

A silly question to some, but her expressions and sentiments are more human than not.

[kyo]

The acquisition of knowledge is an evergoing process, one i realize now that will never really end.

Ah that's the beauty of it, isn't it? Evolution is endless. Life goes on forever. There isn't any 'ultimate' enlightenment, but instead a continuous series of infinite 'relative' enlightenments along infinite paths, ad infinitum, forever. Enlightenment afterall simply means to en-lighten, ie. to add more light to oneself. It's a continuous and never ending process.

I own a pug that is treated as humanly as possible, by myself and others. She's allowed most human interactions and attention (other than sex). Would this theoretically place her in line with evolving into human species?

Oh definitely. The more opportunities an animal is given to interact with humans, in a healthy, loving manner, the faster and closer the animal evolves towards the possibility of joining the human species in a future lifetime. (this possibility is also influenced by the free will of the soul of the pug, of course).

If you have especially strong emotional links to your pug, and you want to know more about it's future (lifetime or existence) possible relationships with yourself, it's future possibility of incarnating as a human, in how many lifetimes would it be ready to incarnate as a human, etc. You can do a Hilarion Reading and ask Hilarion about these questions.

Hilarion Readnig
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Hilarion

A silly question to some, but her expressions and sentiments are more human than not.

A good indication that she is getting ready to join the human species, if she wants to.


Take care,
Kyo
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm

[narfellus]

So in the same way, kyo, we evolve up from mineral and plant level. I admit it's hard to imagine a rock "becoming" more advanced, but in the scheme of things on an energetic, evolutionary level it makes sense. [/img]

[Kyo Kusanagi]

Another beautiful sharing from Alysia, here...
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-afterlife-knowledge/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=afterlife_knowledge;action=display;num=1126069939


As for animal-human question, there is only confusion about this, when one has preconceived ideas or limiting beliefs about the nature of souls, that animals are distinct from humans, and so on.

Once you understand that all beings are simply consciousnesses manifested from God, essentially the same, but manifesting as, throughout and across, many many levels, planets, kingdoms and races, then there is little difficulty in appreciating that this being manifested to you in one form, but incarnated as another.

The mistake many intraphysical consciousness (ie. physically incarnated humans) make, is to trap themselves with preconceived notions and limiting beliefs about reality around them. Once you open your eyes and heart to all possibilities, all possibilities in turn open up to you.

But for some individuals who are still curious about whether humans habitually incarnate as animals, or vice-versa, then, from observation, it is as Alysia has described : the general evoultionary trend is from plant kingdom to animal kingdom to human (and subsequently from human to Serenissimus, etc).

See my post on Astral Pulse here, on the topic of evolving souls progressing from animal incarnations to human incarnations :
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18893


And for those who ask is it possible for human souls to 'regress' back to animal souls? Again as Alysia has already mentioned, it is usually not productive and helpful (and thus does not usually occur) for the soul who has already begun to involve itself karmically and conscientially in one kingdom or soul group, to 'regress' back to incarnating into a biological body of a species in which the lessons and consciential tasks are significantly different.

That is not to say such never occurs. For if there are good reasons for something to occur, then by the natural laws of the universe (and good ol common sense), it would certainly (make sense for it to) occur.

And so the question for you is not so much, is she a human soul incarnating as an animal, or an animal soul incarnating as a human?

These questions become laughable and rather pointless when you see from the higher perspective and realize that souls are souls, 'humans' and 'animals' are merely temporary physical vehicles for the consciousness, and all consciousnesses are essentially the same, ie. aspects and fragments of God that is, and always will be your (you, all your loved ones, all beings of the Cosmos) True Self.

If you do find yourself somehow disturbed by any of the possibilities or ideas that you may suggest to yourself (eg. "OMG! A human soul backslided into an animal soul! That's sooooo sad!"), then that is good (ie. good that you feel disturbed), for even such seemingly 'negative' emotional reactions (eg. upset, anger, sadness, etc) can serve powerfully as OPPORTUNITIES (on simple condition that you're willing to make the effort to learn from these) for you to CLARIFY the true meaning, underlying lessons and Lovingness, of your own ideas, beliefs, choices and thosenes (thoughts, emotions & energies) and true nature (*you* determine your own nature).

And the most direct way to accomplish this, is via Byron Katie's Inquiry Process. Why are you upset? Iterate or articulate your problem statement. Then Turn it Around.

The result of such (Clarification processes, eg. via Inquiry method) is inevitably karmic and consciential evolution, both for the Inquiring soul, as well as for others around (ie. assistantiality), including in this case, (assistantiality) for the being who you love so deeply as your " little girl dog".


----------------------------------------

PS.

Here are a couple of accounts that illustrate the universality of souls (all equally deserving of Love, all equally ourselves) :
 
 
Mr Satan wrote :

i read in one of monroe's books that he visited a place where the spirits, as lights, were lined up waiting to be prepped for incarnation.  They would go through a process where they would forget their previous lives and then shoot toward their new bodies.  In this line he saw one light that was smaller.  He approached it, conversing w it.  The little light said that it had previously been an animal incarnation.  It had done something really exceptional, and so was allowed the privilege of now having a human life.  It felt very honored and nervous at the same time.

(To which Marilyn added)

Yes, I remember reading this too. I believe it was a dog and this really threw me. I've always wondered about that as I didn't think that animals could incarnate as humans.

In a separate thread, Bruce (Moen) writes :

In a two-hour version of my workshop, in Sydney, Australia, participants were taking part in a retrieval exercise.  They were being guided by my verbal cues to retrieve a person.  One of the participants, a woman, came upon a small dog who had died and become stuck.  In her conversation with the dog he told her that he was worried he must have done something wrong.  This because his master no longer call his name and because the children in the family no longer played with him.  The women explained to him that he had not done anything wrong, it was just that he no longer had a body his master or the children could see.

The Helper who showed up to assist in the retrieval of this little dog was a large, adult, white dog.  The participant followed the retrieval process far enough to observe that the little dog was taken to a place where other animals were.  She described it as a large, sunny meadow or pasture where children were playing with puppies and dogs.  

More than a year after this experience I was sharing this story with a pet owner who told me that the place the participant described sounded like the area she and others call the Rainbow Bridge.  In several other retrievals performed during in my workshops other participants have described retrieving other animals to the same place.

Sai Baba also once casually mentioned that his pet elephant was finally ready for her first human incarnation in the next upcoming life, and that it was because she (as with many other animal souls who 'graduate' ahead of their peers) had been putting much effort and willingness to cultivate and demonstrate the higher consciential qualities of compassion and service in her past and current life, and thus being ready for the greater opportunities (of evolution and universal assistantiality) that are provided by a human incarnation.

Unfortunately, from observation, the vast majority of human beings incarnate do not seem to truly appreciate and cherish their current human incarnations very much... a real pity, for every human lifetime is incredibly precious, and so much (more) could be accomplished by each and every human being alive today...

On this topic of appreciating and cherishing the human evolutionary status and the preciousness of (each & every) human incarnation, please refer to my posts on the following threads :

"Evolutionary Level of Human Beings"

"Voices from the Afterlife"


On the topic of Byron Katie and Clarification, see :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1117041145/0#0


On the topic of Hilarion (whom you ask for advice and answers, for those of you deeply emotionally connected to your pets) :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Hilarion


On the topic of Souls, Afterlife, Reincarnation, Intermissive Periods, Existential Programs and Evolution :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm