How long can you project for?

[BOATS]

I have two questions for anyone interested.

1. What is the longest time you have been out in linear time? Myself I         have not  been out more then perhaps five minutes.

2. When you attempt to end a projection for fear or any other reason how do you do it?  Myself I nod my head hard and blink my eyes just like Jeanie use to do in the T.V. show I Dream of Jeanie.  It has always worked so far.  I would surely panic if it did not.  

Thanks
Yours Lee

[Frank]

Hi:

Longest ever, that's difficult to say. Perhaps about 3 to 4 hours. Though I'd say the majority of my projections last about 30 minutes to an hour of linear time.

Yours,
Frank

[BOATS]

That's really amazing Frank to be able to project for such a long period of time.  There are so many things I would like to see and do if I could be out that long.  I think I am finally over the fear stage at last.  I'm sure I could have sustained longer but I always feared I died.  Due to the recent death of my Grandmother I feel I have lost a great connection to the physical and fear death less.  One question is how do the projections normally end? Do you choose to end them of do they end without intent?

[Lente]

Hi:

Longest ever, that's difficult to say. Perhaps about 3 to 4 hours. Though I'd say the majority of my projections last about 30 minutes to an hour of linear time.

Yours,
Frank

Do you feel that is enough time, or do you feel annoyed if you wake up?

[Frank]

Hi:

Projections usually end with what I feel as a familiar tugging. It feels suddenly like someone has got me on a lead and is pulling me back. I recognise it straight away as my physical making some kind of demand or other. So it's like, okay, what now? So I'll pop back, so to speak, or refocus within the physical and see what's what. Perhaps it's time to get up and get on with my day, maybe I need to use the bathroom, or whatever. When my physical brings me back I generally call it quits for the day, as there is always another time tomorrow. No sense in trying to force it.

In answer to Lente's question I think between 30 minutes to an hour is about right. Like I say no sense in trying to force it. Within subjective reality there is no time. So you can be projecting for what feels like hours and hours and only 30 minutes have passed of actual physical time. The other thing is, the further "out" you go, the longer it takes for you to orientate yourself in the physical again. When I have a Focus 4 experience I normally have to endure a number of what are generally called false awakenings, or "false physicals" as I call them before I get properly oriented. After which is takes about 2 hours of moving about in the physical to fully get used to being "back".

Yours,
Frank

[catmeow]

Well last night I had an LD (don't like to call it an OBE or AP because I realised in the dream that I was dreaming and I simply continued the dream).  

It was a fantastic experience with a lot of stunning imagery.  I was floating around a modern city.  When I rose high enough I could see that, over the tops of the buildings there was a shoreline, a magnificent sea and in the distance huge snow-capped mountains!  The light was stunning and hard to describe.  It was like nothing I would ever see here in the UK!   I marvelled at it for some time.

But basically the experience lasted as long as I wanted, maybe an hour or so.  It seemed that I could have continued indefinitely.  Eventually I purposely ended the experience because I felt a slight discomfort in my physicl body and this told me it was time to return.  It happens many times that I can extend a projection for basically as long as I want.  The physical discomfort signal is what normally tells me to return.  I make a conscious decision to return.  

catmeow

[Shadowflame]

I think my longest willed projection has been about 5 minutes. I'd love to have one for 3 to 4 hours though. I guess I'll just have to keep training!  

And on the "tugging"...oh yeah. You'll know when you're being pulled back. It happened to me today and I was furious. I shouted "Nooooo!!" and tried to stay somehow but I couldn't.  

[Frank]

Hi:

Please don't try and fight that "tugging". I know it only too well. It's just that the physical is our Primary Focus and it cannot be fought. Gentle pursuation is the key to staying "out" longer.

Yours,
Frank

[Tombo]

I sometimes wonder if there is any kind of danger involved if I one fights the urge to return and tries to stay out as long as possible at any cost? Will the physical take me back anyway or is it better not the mess with this things.

[upstream]

My best was three hours I think, in real time of course. Being immersed in a deep focus you have much more time.

If you want to wake up touch your solar plexus repeatedly on your dream body until is starts to pulse on its own, then fly off from the ground and command yourself to spin back into the exact same position of your sleeping body.

You may need to disconnect your attention from the dream by focusing on your palm while you do this to ensure a totally passive flight.

Your dream body will either wobbling around in mid air like a falling leaf before it lands somewhere taking gradually the position of your sleeping body, or in a case of an OBE you may spin back right into your body.

Then try to wingle your toes.

[Shadowflame]

Hi:

Please don't try and fight that "tugging". I know it only too well. It's just that the physical is our Primary Focus and it cannot be fought. Gentle persuasion is the key to staying "out" longer.

Yours,
Frank

Gentle persuasion hm? I'll try that. Thanks.  

[IceDragon77]

I haven't even been able to fully astral project yet but i plan on trying again tonight

[Frank]

Major Tom:

In my book I call them recognition states, which is what you are terming dwelling stages. The somewhat wishy-washy hypnogogic states unfortunately absorb our focus of attention like a dry sponge soaking up water. The images present themselves as a kind of tantalising alternative, an exercise in attention seduction that leads us down that slippery slope to sleep. Somehow, the neophyte practitioner of the art has to find a way of mentally "looking beyond" the imagery in order to get a fix somewhere in the distance. Not that there is any distance in that state, but all in a manner of speaking. It's difficult to explain in words. One day I hope to develop some computer graphical simulations of typical experiences. But that's a couple of years away.

Yours,
Frank

[BOATS]

Frank, I tried your suggestion to focus my intention to go beyond the hypnagogic images this morning after awaking.  I awoke after several hours sleep and not feeling to well I took a motren tablet and returned to bed after about fifteen minutes.  

Laying on my right side (On thing I like about fazing), as I can never get comfortable on my back attempting the traditional OBE.  The hypnagogic images started after about five minutes and at first I started looking beyond the images.  The images were very clear and I several times would notice a white circle of the type physics describe as Strings come from the distance and go toward my forehead.  I then stopped as I realized even though I was looking past the images I still wanted to be a passive observer and not focus too much.  But intent was a key factor I believe in what occurred next.  As I was doing this I started to spin several times to my right and I noticed I appeared to be in some type matrix.  I forced myself into a vertical position while still spinning and tried to rise out of the matrix all the while knowing my physical body was still lying in bed. I could not seem to exscape the matrix for about two minutes.  I was able to see my arms and hands vagely as they were very transparent.

Then I had a false awaking, at first I just looked out a window on to the street and realized I was actually in F2oC.  I got up and started walking around.  The whole episode for perhaps twenty minutes was wacky for I kept becoming lucid then semi and non lucid again with several false awaking taking place.  

upstream I could have used you at one point as I found myself in a very dangerous area of Columbia.  It is a place I have been a few times in non lucid dreams, however this time I was lucid and spent time looking at a heavily forested area with numerous lizards and tribal characters.  I made no attempt to go toward F3oC as I was having too much fun in F2.  

I feel that I lacked proper energy to stay out longer.  I know people have different views about chakra's or energy work in general but even during the experience I was thinking my energy was low.
Thanks
Lee.

[Shadowflame]

I'm gonna go read up more on chakras and energy. Today I couldn't project. I woke up so tired--which was odd and I even tried projecting after I awoke but then after 5 minutes my mom interrupted me then I just gave up, but I was tired all day and took a nap about 5 and tried projecting but ended up falling asleep. I don't feel as tired now so I'm gonna try when I go to bed tonight.

[mactombs]

Somehow, the neophyte practitioner of the art has to find a way of mentally "looking beyond" the imagery in order to get a fix somewhere in the distance.

Another problem I find with this is, even if you do look beyond the imagery and are conscious, and like me, you think, "well, I can't get out of here until my body goes to sleep" things can be problematic. In these situations almost 95% of the time I'll be tricked into thinking I'm awake, so in an effort to get my body to sleep, I'll fall into the hynpogogic and sleep-land.

I think it's important not to worry about whether your physical is asleep or not. When you're mentally conscious, you can hear things even while your body is asleep, for instance.

Too long I've been sidetracked seeing the physical asleep as a signpost I have to be looking for. It's very counterproductive! Just checking can bring you out of what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.

Somehow I need to get weaned off checking my status by checking how my body feels.

BOATS, that's awesome you made a successful outing to F2. It sounds like you had fun ...

It's exciting to see the number of F2 successes posted recently!

[BOATS]

I know this morning as I was attempting to look past the hypnagogic images I definitely made an attempt to loose awareness of my body.  I make no effort ever to determine if I am awake or asleep while attempting phasing.  One time I was jolted back to consciousness and felt I was floating a second before. The spinning sensation I encountered started after I made an effort to spin.  Looking back there appeared to have been a falling sensation and I used this as the catalyst.  The spinning does not actually continue on its own, as I forced myself to spin.  It still seems a little hit and miss for me but today I for the first time made an effort to see past the hypnagogic and was successful so only time will tell if this a major key for me as it is for Frank.

[upstream]

I often use this "looking beyond the light patterns then beyond all the brain farts as they were layers before my eyes" trick. Basically this is the same I was talking about in the thread where we shared tricks for the F2 to F3 transition. You immobilize your eyes and disregard hallucinations.  You separate your visual interest from the actual direction of your eyes. But most importantly, it's neglecting brain farts. (Oh, how I like this term, brain farts, braaaain farts.)

Anyway, I wrote this someone not so long ago [edited]:

Also, you need a focal point to concentrate on. It could be a part of the body, or a function of it, like breathing, or inner noises, lights whatever that's available at that moment, stable enough yet changes on the way. If you want an OBE type experience, for example, you should keep in touch with the internal sounds and vibrations. Then you would consciously realize the moment when the inner body starts to lose up. Similarly, if you want to phase you need to look beyond the light patterns you see behind your closed eyes as a sustained "effort" for trying to connect with something beyond.

I found that there are two components of our attention which specifically distinguish OBE induction from concentrative meditation. Besides a highly focused thread of attention, that should remain focused on something, there is another, more broad and open form that's specific for projection.

Feeling of expansion, delocaliedness, peripheric ciausl interest, or hearing music from static noises are similar forms of attention. A related exercise is looking into the reflection of my eye in a mirror without blinking while I  keep my interest at the utmost periphery of the visual field. For some reason, perhaps by recreating the conditions of natural hypnagogia this exercise inject my face into regular hypnagogic pictures but somehow link it to the waking consciousness so I become conscious when I see it. A very good exercise before sleep indeed.

Pretending of seeing something bright in the distance, through a window, is very good too. This is an induction method. As long as you can sustain to pretend you actually perceive something in a quasi visual form but not forcing to have a "real vision" you will get bursts of 3D pictures. It's very important to absorb your attention on the border or the window through you let yourself to see something. The real trick is to have the unquestionable assurance that there is something out there and fixating it in its pre-visual form yet not trying by all means to see it as a "real picture." Does it makes sense?

One actual realization of this dual focus, I use very often, consists three attention. While I center myself in the solar plexus and observe the melody of inner noises, I place my visual interest on the periphery of my inner screen. Trying to look behind this layer I absorb one part of my attention in the periphery of the visual field pretending that I'm looking upwards into a great expanse. That is, dissociating my visual interest from the actual direction of my eyes by feeling myself inside a cone that rapidly expands into the sky above my head.

[Shadowflame]

Too long I've been sidetracked seeing the physical asleep as a signpost I have to be looking for. It's very counterproductive! Just checking can bring you out of what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.

Somehow I need to get weaned off checking my status by checking how my body feels.

I tend to do this myself. I was just attempting AP again today less than an hour ago and I made it to where my physical body felt numb and I made a mental note of that and I usually look for that as a signpost.

Though of course, my mom would HAVE to interrupt yet AGAIN. I was furious. I'm still a bit upset with her too.