Why have you chosen spirituality?

[Seeker of Matter]

So here I am, once again, wondering about something.

I can see that most people here are into the "spirituality thing" and from my point of view spirituality is great...... if it is a choice.
My thoughts go in the direction of thinking that many of you simply ended up here (not in this forum in particular but in this way of thinking) because that you were unable to function in a normal society and be successful there. That you were forced to go this way because you couldn't fit in anywhere ells. Does this ring true for some?

That would at least take some of the glamour of "I skipped society because I find spirituality to be more true" when in fact it was you that were skipped by society.

If you think about it would you then have chosen spirituality if you where happy and satisfied in the normal society?

If spirituality is chosen based on one being unhappy and unsuccessful where one was, are the spiritual people not in fact just the outcasts from somewhere? And if so are they not in some way trying to glorify their weakness and inability by saying that this is a HIGHER PURPOSE when they in fact have no idea of what being successful in society would offer them?

How many here have honestly chosen to be here by will and not by need?

I came to think about this as my father told me that he never wanted to be a rich moron because rich people are simply evil...... He talked on about his theory for this when I suddenly realized that he had no choice of being rich..... because he simply lacks the skills it takes to build up firm e.g. and then not to seem defeated he said that this is his choice – not being rich that is. He can't say that because he had never had the option of being rich and very successful otherwise I am sure he would have taken it!

Any comments?

[knightlight]

For me it was both.  In my teens I was forced out of body a number of times and at the age of 17 became a devout buddhist.  I have become more moderate in my beliefs and use what I have learned as a philosophy based on experiences.  It all seems only natural to me and what does this life offer in its end anyway?  All the status and possessions in society will be all for naught.  I dont need to be accepted or follow any hip new trends to feel alright with myself.  I never clicked with society.  If I where to become insanely rich I would buy my own island and invite my friends to live with me.  I would get as far away from mainstream life as I could and allow all those who have accepted me despite my odd ways and departure from the norm the choice to join me.  All in this world is transitory, whats beyond it isnt, as far as I know.

[Seeker of Matter]

Well I will then put you in under the category "Outcast Freak" Knightlight

Anyone ells ?

Perhaps my question is more about choice in it self. How can we say that we have really and truly chosen anything before we have every possibility in the world in our grasp? Is it not in our nature to get as much (in every aspect) as we can? A choice is not to settle at "what you were able to get" even though you wanted more but simply couldn't get more... or is it?

I would say that a choice is where you could have had more but chose to settle for less..... But who would do that? I know that I wouldn't.... At least I think I wouldn't.....

The is no such thing as guilty conscience, only the fear of getting caught right?

[Heather B.]

I'm an outcast freak too.  Formerly by choice, but now by force.  

I did the rebel thing as a teenager--breaking with my family's traditional religious/spiritual values in order to find my own truth, being an artiste, dressing in all black, all the bells and whistles.  

Then I grew up and got consumed with working, paying bills, and grocery shopping.  

And now, just as everything was starting to come together--Masters degree, a real career, a new home in a new city, planning a marriage and family--I lost the man who was to be my husband.  And suddenly, I was a true outcast freak, through no choice of my own.  You wouldn't believe how society regards, or doesn't regard, a young person in my situation.  I feel like I've evolved into an entirely different species.  And maybe I have, on the spiritual level.  

But here's the punch-line---I've now returned to my family's traditional religious/spiritual values!  Yes, I'm a quintessential practicing Catholic! But, I've also found myself here.  I would say by "accident" or "coincidence," except that I don't believe in such things any more.  I believe that as humans, we have remarkable, mysterious abilities, such as exploring unknown realms of the universe and attempting to make sense of them.  I don't believe there is any reason to limit ourselves to this imperfect, limited, physical existence.  

These possibilities give me a new hope, a potential new purpose and new direction for my life, since the life I used to have has all but been destroyed by the tragedy of my beloved's death.  This renewed spirituality is helping me to regain my footing, so to speak, and to carve myself a new niche.

[GANAMOHA]

I would have to say that I have been born with spirituality since birth but now in my teens I think I could fit in with society and be "normal" but I think and many others would agree that normal is overated. I dont like forcing myself in to avoid being seperated thus considered weak. but instead I have slowy gained friends and no one would even know my beliefs and often times I dont feel the needs to depict them. I have chosen this lifestyle but I feel as I go futher into spirituality I have gone farther from society. Eventually I believe this will pass but for now the possition I hold n life doesnt matter to me much right now.

[James S]

Hi Seeker of Matter,

There's a wiccan saying:
"Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell,
Spirituality is for people who have been there."

I suffered depression to the point of being suicidal many years ago. At the time I was a quite dedicated christian. I wouldn't say that religion put me into depression, but it certainly didn't stop me going there.

While I was suffering depression, the best the church's "trained councellors" could do was pray over me to be "released from the demons" or encourage me to seek God's help because "we are nothing without His strength". It was all fear based, and what do you think you get when you feed fear with more fear?

I did go through hell, and spirituality helped me to find  my way out. I found it through the regular meditation I did to help relieve the anxiety. I learned that have the potential within me to overcome my own problems, without pinning the blame on some demonic entity, or relying on some deity for your survival.

Blessings,
James.

[Seeker of Matter]

Interesting stuff indeed! It seems that you in some way or another was driven to choose this path. That was also what I suspected. Almost Mrs. Murphy I am sorry for your loss. I have no idea what it is like loosing someone you love..... and I am actually thankful for that! GANAMOHA I will put you under the "maybe" section then if you don't mind
James S I too am a Christian. At least that is what it says on the paper but I really never looked into it. I really don't know what to think about it but I must say it is not something I take way to seriously. I hardly ever think about it.... Though perhaps I should?

Well keep posting

[Stillwater]

I suppose, from my perspective at least, that it was a fairly conscious choice, although there are certainly other psychoanalytic angles one could take with my situation; at 14 I came to view the world as being filled with ignorance and negativity, and I felt that these prevailing forces were preventing the mass of humanity from enjoying what was of actual substance in the world- namely virtue, and beauty, in each of the manifold forms the two blanketing categories invoke. I would not say that I really rejected mainstream society, but rather that as I became more contemplative and questioning, I began to see things slightly differently, and acquired the notion that consumerist culture did not contain everything that was of value.

Up to this time, I had been a micro-scholar of eastern literature and scripture, and it was that I began to realize that what I believed paralleled what I found in these texts, and that was how I came to change my worldview.

You are free to say what you will of my case; I am even looking forward to my diagnosis  

[Seeker of Matter]

Definitely a serious case of freakiness. I would not recommend you to go anywhere not bound to a chair wearing a straitjacket.

Besides from that I think that your story sounds very natural and evolving so to say. Very role model like. But I only know what you write about you, perhaps your neighbour sees you as complete hippie lunatic – the power of perception right ?

Well ok then, I let you go but don't think that I won't be watching you ready to pounce at the first sign of weirdness and lock you up with the others. I wonder if should feed them or just let the dynamics of Darwin's "survival of the fittest" come to the test? See who first gets eaten

Why do I always get so lame when I am tired? Talk about altered state of conciseness...

I might revise you diagnose tomorrow so that it will fit better with the western way of psychoanalysis!! (No really I won't hehe)

[Heather B.]

For me, religion and spirituality are two equal,  complementary aspects of my belief system.  Many, if not all, Catholic saints who are honored by many to this day, are well known for their spiritual talents and experiences.

I do agree, though, nowadays, most people are just "Christian" because their parents and grandparents are, or because it's considered the "norm" for their society, or, of course, because they've been instilled with a mortal fear of Hell.

And that's sad.  Really sad.  Because Christianity is not about fear.  Jesus certainly wasn't a fearful person, nor were his early followers, most of whom went knowingly into what would lead to a certain, and often horrible, death.

Of course, it's really hard to generalize anything about Christianity, given the 30,000 different versions of it that have sprung up. *sigh*  Not only that, but even within each denomination, every church is unique.  Whenever I move to a new city, I often go to at least 3 or 4 Catholic churches before I find the Right One.   Fortunately, I found the Right Church immediately--actually my fiance found it first!

[Projector]

I'm a kewl guy I 'fit in' with the normal crowd, just having fun and doing normal things.

But I ran accross a web site that involved astral projection while randomly searching the web one day, and on began my obes!









-The Projector-

[Stillwater]

But I only know what you write about you, perhaps your neighbour sees you as complete hippie lunatic – the power of perception right ?

Indeed- quite right; one can only infer another's character through the words they choose to present when the only direct contact is written; there is a total lack of certainty whether the individual even resembles what they present, and so your argument is quite lucid.

In addition, I have always marveled at the power which perspective has in moulding one's experience of a particular world or environment, and how a simple change in this all-important index can radically alter perception of one's surroundings, allowing for an infinite layer of experience in finite space; for example, a person viewing a blasted cathedral over-run with vines may feel that the scene represents the arrogance and failure of man, whereas another might view the site , with its armature supporting the firmament, to be a monument to the redemptive qualities of nature.

Regarding being a hippie-lunatic ( ), the scales of liberality and conservatism for everyone are slightly shifted, and so what one person may call a guardian of established norms, another may call a radical, and so in this light, I suppose this designation will apply in some circles.  

[Seeker of Matter]

I have just had a enlightening experience regarding this topic..... I am now totally sure that nobody chooses spirituality. One is in one way or another pushed into it!

I remembered the very first forum I registered at, it was a Danish forum for computer hardware. And I just thought that I would let all these people there who have helped solve my pc problems know that there is such a thing as astral projection, and that it is mind expanding and at least worth a read. But then what happened? Everybody started attacking me and calling me fanatic.... ME FANATIC... that is directly absurd!!!

But I know what they thought. They thought that I was this totally crazy person having delusions about life and that I was trying to convince them these delusions are true.

It is directly impossible to get these people to open up even just a little to this topic of astral projection. But what did I expect, it was a PC forum...

[knightlight]

many of my friends have given me rather strange looks when I attempt to explain my beliefs to them.  Just last night I got in an hour and a half debate about what reality is and why I don't think language time or math are real in any sense, only in the way we interpret them.  I couldn't even get them to understand the concept that there is no "I".    My friend Grant, when I said he wasn't Grant, said "yes I am..." and I said where?? And he started pointing to himself...     I think on the grand scheme of philosophy and spirituality that's a fairly simple concept to grasp, that you are not "you" and most people cant even wrap their minds around that!!!!
Your experience at the forums doesn't shock me and I am glad you have realized what you have.  At the mention of OBE's and telepathy and other such things 99% of people just dont have any will to believe it I guess, even when they do experience it.  They write off OBE's as "really vivid dreams" and ghosts and such other metaphysical things as nonsense or their mind tricking them somehow.  They think accepting these things will cause them to be seen as a freak or insane, let alone the implications OBE's and other such phenomenon carries into their every day lives and the shadow of doubt it casts over their usually christian beliefs.  Some aren't ready for it, and I am without a doubt glad I am.

[Seeker of Matter]

heh, I can understand your friends, I even give you strange looks when you try to explain your beliefs to me lol

But seriously, if they do not want to open their mind are you just supposed to leave them or try to force their minds open   ?

I actually got real angry with them at a point, because not only did they not believe in astral projection (which they still refere to as a belief) but the little ¤##"¤ started making personal attacks on me. That ticked me off!!

But still, I must remember that I still share much of that scepticism for many metaphysical concepts including the "thing" known as "Illuminati" I that is actually a great parallel I think. Because I think that I feel the same way about "The Illuminati" as the people in the hardware forum thinks about astral projection... which makes me just as bad actually    So i cannot really hate them, because then I should hate myself too...

BTW. I am going sailing with my family tomorrow. So if I don't reply in the next week (or longer) you know why. I am going to OUTCOLOR my sister on that trip, damn she is brown now, I cannot have that!
But my skin fell off last year due to TOO much sun.... so I am going to find the right balance this year

[Telos]

What a great topic!

I'm very glad you are asking about spirituality in terms of choice. Often it seems like spirituality, regardless of the flavor, is necessary for things like wisdom, happiness, intuition, creativity, intelligence, survival after death, etc., when it probably isn't.

I don't think I had a choice.

I'm very capable of being social and "cool," but the trouble is I can't stand the normal interests of people. Thus, I effectively have no choice but to be an outcast. I'm not exactly a misanthrope, I just haven't found anyone who has interests aligned with mine.

For example, and this is the most important one for me, I've always cherished lucid dreaming and wanted to spread the message of its importance. However, I've never met a person who has even had one lucid dream or appears to be interested in having them. And I'm always looking! I think I once met one or two people in isolated instances who said that they "have them all the time," but I was very incredulous, because they didn't appear to recognize their significance. "Yeah, I have lucid dreams all the time, they just come naturally to me," like its some kind of badge of sophistication and not an area of much study.

So, the only people who appear to take lucid dreams with any seriousness in my purview are those I meet over the Internet, who tend to be very spiritual people. Unfortunately, I've adopted the spiritual interpretation of dreaming in order to converse with and learn from these people, and I've done this very gradually and seemingly without much choice. It seems very difficult for people to discuss the significance of lucid dreaming without a spiritual element. I say this is unfortunate not only beause it creates a kind of lack of choice (if I'm going to engage in conversation with others) but also because I really desire conversation with others who have a less etheric view.

If you desire this or know of any others who do as well, please let me know.