scared to ap!!!!

[the _one]

whats the worst that can happen to you when your astral projecting??
because i can ive done it before but I'm just to scared to do it again the first time i ever did was when i first found out about this ability in fact the same day i guess i fell asleep trying or something but i just woke up outside my body it scared the s**t   out of me but i got back in then felt all these feelings they felt so good but don't know where they came from

well can something jump in your body and take over?
can you go crazy???please really need to know so i can find out the reason i came here to this world !!!

if your a naturall please reply!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben K]

Mind the silver cord.

Dont let him in. Youll know who I mean.

Upon exit, recite the chant of Solumnus 16 times. Google it.

Haha, im just kidding. But if you go read the internet, this is what youll probably find. The truth is there is NO danger in "astral projection" so you have nothing to worry about.

[jay dawg]

no one has anything to worry about because AP is just a dream. the worst that could happen is you wake up.

[E3mpirical1]

AP is not dreaming

[jay dawg]

what evidence do u have to suggest that AP is not lucid dreaming?

[Andali27]

Hi the_one.

You've got absolutly nothing to worry about.  I'm also a natural but only awoke to that after time.  After I realised what was really happening, a lot of things started to make sense.

I find that conscious projection scares me a lot more than spontaneous projections (though I haven't had any in a while, I've been too tired with school).

The reason for this is that its probably the exit that scared me but whenever it happens when I'm half asleep, an automatic drive takes over and I don't have time to thing about anything else.  I think you'll find that if you examine the experience, you were probably more freaked out afterwards than during.  The realisation is more scary than the actual experience, especially if its never happened to you before.

Here's an article in the Sticky section that should help you to douse some of your fears:


"The practice of OBE does not in itself attract the attention of negative type entities. The only thing to fear in the out-of-body environment is fear itself. Too much fear creates countless problems for a projector. If fear is a serious problem and cannot be controlled, and if it too easily grows into terror, a projector should not really be projecting. But as I've said before, a small amount of fear is healthy as it breeds caution.

It is highly unusual for projectors to encounter or to be seriously troubled by astral wildlife, especially by really strong negative spirit types. It is even more unusual for these to trouble a projector's physical/etheric body before, during or after a projection. However, there are ways to keep the negatives away and to protect the physical/etheric body during a projection, or even while just sleeping, if it becomes necessary. This may seem a little out of theme with the rest of the content of this book, but I feel I would be letting my readers down and leaving this book incomplete, if I did not offer at least some advice on what to do if things ever started going wrong."

- Robert Bruce, excerpt from Countermeasures and Wards

http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_43.htm

Greetings people,

I've started this post with the above quote to encapsulate something that I think a lot of people new to this site need to be made aware of - that the astral realms in general are NOT dangerous places full of negative entities!

There seems to be a growing number of doomsayers who believe it to be their sworn duty to make sure every person new to projecting has been made more than abundantly aware of all the misery and torture that awaits them in the astral at the hands of the legions of demonic entities.

With regards to normal, natural OBEs this simply is not true.

Firstly, a very important concept to remember when traveling through the astral – what you look for is what you will get. One of the few rules in the astral is "like attracts like". If you go into the astral with an attitude that there are lots of negs around that you need to be careful of, guess what you're going to find?

"Positive and negative areas coexist within all subplanes and realms, holding each other dimensionally apart through natural energetic repulsion mechanisms.

This energetic filtering effect can often be perceived, during a projection, as a subtle gradient of light, as a gradual brightening or darkening, or as a heaviness or lightness......

.....Your will can override the natural energetic filtering mechanism, allowing you to go wherever you choose. Astral projectors will always naturally project to the astral level they are in tune with energetically, but they can move on from there into positive and negative areas with which they are not naturally in tune......

.....The majority of visible astral plane directions have a reasonably positive outcome. If a positive direction is taken and held, a projector will generally move into a progressively brighter and lighter area, into higher-level areas. The reverse usually will not happen by accident, although it can be brought about by a deliberate act of exploration.

If travelers remain focused on what they are doing and have positive-oriented minds, they have very little to worry about in this respect. In practice, travelers wandering the astral planes at random will find themselves experiencing a great many varied and interesting environments. They will not come across any seriously negative areas in their travels unless they actively go looking for them. The underlying intentions and qualities of thought of astral travelers safeguard them from accidentally entering negative areas they are not in tune with energetically."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Ok, so now you should see that for the untrained, going headlong into the astral is not going to lead you into a world of hurt unless you are deliberately looking for it.

So what is this world of hurt that the fearful among us speak of?

"The lower astral sublanes (traditionally the ones to be avoided) appear to be areas where negative emotion, thought, and fantasy-generated energies have been collecting for a very long time. These areas are home to negative manifestations of the darker side of the human mind and imagination. The fringes of these areas are not dangerous, but are decidedly unpleasant. The very bad lower subplanes are dark, shadowy areas populated (more aptly polluted) with all kinds of demons, monsters, and nightmarish figures. The lowest of these dark areas could aptly be called hellish dimensional areas.

If you find yourself in or near a negative area, the common-sense solution is to project away to a brighter area as soon as possible. The fastest way to move away is to strongly imagine somewhere nicer and use instant projection to shift there. Holding an image of the entrance structure firmly in mind and instantly projecting there will usually return you to the surface, without your getting lost or aborting the projection. If this does not work, fly straight up while using uplifting spiritual thoughts, prayer, or song to elevate consciousness. Fly toward the brightest area or spark of light that can be seen above or ahead. An upward direction will usually take a projector away from a negative area.

Astral travelers need not pass through negative or lower astral subplanes to travel to more positive and higher astral levels. The negative areas in the astral planes are, in a way, energetically sideways to the normal planelike dimensional structure. It is quite difficult to project deliberately into a seriously bad lower subplane area-or to project into a seriously higher level or plane, for the very same reason. Energetic differences and the natural attraction and repulsion effects generally prohibit this from occurring accidentally. Every projector will have his or her own energetic limitations.

The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Without getting into the whole drug debate, the average astral traveler is going to find it pretty hard to get into trouble with negative entities through your average OBE.

One other important thing to remember here, if you do get stuck in an astral area that you can't handle, don't panic, just bail out! You don't have to stay, and events in the astral can't hurt you in the physical. Treat it like a bad dream. It really is that simple.

I know I've only drawn on Robert Bruce's investigations here to provide what I hope to be a more objective view for newcomers. This is not because I idolize him or follow him around like some messiah, but because he deliberately set out to demystify astral travel and put it into terms we can all make sense of. In books on metaphysical subjects, a straight talking no nonsense author is a rare gem! I also know Mr. Bruce is but one of many noted explorers in this field, but I don't have the documentation from other such explorers such as Robert Munroe or Bruce Moen to call on. Bruce Moen has posted on this site however, so a search for topics under his name should reveal some useful material.

I would invite any of our resident frequent flyers to add their information here as support for those who might possibly have fears in discovering that which is beyond our physical world.

Bottom line - relax, enjoy the ride, and let the experience be an enjoyable enriching one.



Good luck!

Andali

[James S]

jay dawg,

What evidence do you have that it isn't?
I'd bet London to a brick that you can not produce conclusive evidence either way.

So far most of what you've said on these forums sounds just like religious dogma.
You believe it is one way only because of the evidence that you have personally found acceptable, so from your point of view any thing else must be wrong.
You've said elsewhere that lucid dreaming has been proven by science.
Well guess what? So has AP! But it all depends on the "scientists" presenting the proof.

Since you wish to use science as your prop here, have you ever heard of the term confirmational bias? It's what happens when scientists or engineers in their zeal to prove something is one way they don't bother to test from the other way.

Confirmational bias was what ultimately caused the Challenger disaster years ago. A valve was tested to see how well it would work, but it was not tested to see how it might fail. And guess what happened?

Your arguments and your opinions are very one sided, giving you the appearence of being very narrow minded. So far you have put forward all your arguments on the basis that Lucid dreaming is a valid state of consciousness, but not once have you tried to see how astral projection could also be a valid state of consciousness.

Nobody likes religious preachers, and all you've done so far is preach your religion.

Please, either give us something to tell us that you are more intelligent than some over zealous little kiddie flamer, or bugger off and stop putting other people's ideas down just because you think you know better.

James.

[jay dawg]

dude i am extremely opened minded. smoking weed all day does that to a person.


"If you find yourself in or near a negative area, the common-sense solution is to project away to a brighter area as soon as possible. The fastest way to move away is to strongly imagine somewhere nicer and use instant projection to shift there"

give me a break he just said imagine, that is the key word imagine. yes it is imagination, thats what an LD is right? makes sense to me. i cant accpet that there is LDing and astral projection. it has to be either one or the other right? it may be real but if it is then that would mean your spirit is wandering around all night while u sleep and you are comepletly unaware of it until u develop dream recall? i doubt it, where does your spirit store its memory? and how does it connect with our pysical memory?

dont talk to me about dogma i was a christian my whole life until just recently when i found out religion to be fraud. im not going to get into why so dont bring it up.

i think we most likely were created by a higher power and we very may well have spirits. that being said there is reason behind what happens in a so called projection. sounds like most of you have not read lding tutorial or something. hey i dont want to argue i just want to find out which is true.

[clandestino]

Hi there Jay Dawg,

i cant accpet that there is LDing and astral projection. it has to be either one or the other right?

could you accept, that lucid dreams and astral projection are aspects of the same thing ?

I have had many lucid dreams, & several "OBEs" / "astral projections"  - call them what you will. The difference, in my opinion, is that when you are lucid dreaming, you know that you are lucid dreaming.

When you are projecting, you know that you are in a different reality, so to speak... No more or less valid than our physical reality.

Lucid dreams & astral projections are part of the same thing, in my opinion - not mutually exclusive.

[James S]

Ok, well you've answered one question for me. You're not some little kiddie flamer. There's intelligence behind your answer.

What I see though is that you're still being very dogmatic in your approach. You have accepted one way of looking at things to the exclusion of others.

So you doubt our spirits can leave our body during sleep? You possibly question the who issue of spirits - not sure about it?

That's rather shakey ground to be basing rock solid opinions on!

I can understand your feelings about having been a christian and then finding the whole religious thing to be a fraud. I've walked that path myself. Just don't swing so far the other way that you end up embracing a whole new religious dogma.

If you really want to find out what's true, then lay off the weed for one, because that will just get stuck in a negative mindset, and look at what's going on beyond your own levels of experience or what you've read.

There are a great many people here and on other forums who have experienced things that you could not reasonably fit into the category of "lucid dreaming". Check out some of the many posts by Frank for starters. Look into research conducted by Robert Munroe, and ongoing research being done by The Monroe Institute.

Just please stop posting as if you've got all the answers and no-one else knows what they're on about. That's preaching!

James.

[jay dawg]

alrighty then. btw ive been off weed for a week now.  

ill keep reading up on APing  but im still having a hard time finding something that proves its more than LDing. im sure ill find something eventually. ?....

[clandestino]

Hi there Jay dawg,

Making a distinction between lucid dreaming & astral projection is not easy, IMO... It is a very interesting subject.

Consider this - how do you decide that physical reality is the "real" world and a lucid dream is a "dream" world ? What are the observations you make ?

Kind regards,
Mark

[James S]

alrighty then. btw ive been off weed for a week now.  

ill keep reading up on APing  but im still having a hard time finding something that proves its more than LDing. im sure ill find something eventually. ?....

Cool!

There's a lot of evidence out there by people who have AP'd. Proving it is another matter alltogether. It's probably fair to say we can only ever hope to prove such things to ourselves though personal experience.

Good luck!  

James.

[jay dawg]

Hi there Jay dawg,

Making a distinction between lucid dreaming & astral projection is not easy, IMO... It is a very interesting subject.

Consider this - how do you decide that physical reality is the "real" world and a lucid dream is a "dream" world ? What are the observations you make ?

Kind regards,
Mark

come on u are talking to an enlightened individual here. give me a challenge!  the difference between real life is you are perceiving everything through signals from your ears eyes nose touch being translated into things in the brain.

dreaming is just the opposite. its ALL in your head, nothing originating from outside realness. just memories of outside realness and even those are not solid in dreams all the time

[OrionsDream]

Hmm.. Dreaming is all in your head huh? Nothing origniating from realness?...

Suppose that dreaming is the REAL and this is just a dream... O_O

Not that I think that, but i would give more credit to dreams.
Have you heard of Dream Walking? Cool name I found for it, not that it means anything past "the dream world" : Telen'rhiod

[E3mpirical1]

The problem is, is that we continue to make the mistake that everything that does not exist through direct experience of our primary focus1 reality must be proved based on measures from focus1oC reality which isn't 100% accuratly possible. The bigger picture is there is no this reality and that reality it's ALL ONE REALITY.

[E3mpirical1]

Hi there Jay dawg,

Making a distinction between lucid dreaming & astral projection is not easy, IMO... It is a very interesting subject.

Consider this - how do you decide that physical reality is the "real" world and a lucid dream is a "dream" world ? What are the observations you make ?

Kind regards,
Mark

come on u are talking to an enlightened individual here. give me a challenge!  the difference between real life is you are perceiving everything through signals from your ears eyes nose touch being translated into things in the brain.

dreaming is just the opposite. its ALL in your head, nothing originating from outside realness. just memories of outside realness and even those are not solid in dreams all the time

You're right Jay dawg, "its ALL in your head", all of it, you percieving things by your eyes, ears, nose and touch are translated into your brain/IN YOUR HEAD just as dreams are. The difference is, is that there is more objectivity in this focus of this reality. It is about where (not best descriptive word to use 'where') our main focus of conscious attention is that determines the objectivity and subjectivity of what we percieve.

[E3mpirical1]

I would like to add what I've said to invoke some thought possibly, to 'open your mind' just a little bit more than you may think it already is, Jay dawg.  I would highly suggest reading Franks input on the subject as he probaly as had the most experience MUCH MUCH MORE than I have had thus far.

[jay dawg]

exactly

[Vvid1012]

Come on guys.... "Life is but a dream"

answers are now solved

[Delta Kilo]

ill keep reading up on APing  but im still having a hard time finding something that proves its more than LDing. im sure ill find something eventually. ?....

Why not try the card test? Tape a playing card to a window or place it atop a shelf or wardrobe where it's outside your normal physical view.

If you AP, you'll be likely to see it; if you're LDing, you got Buckley's chance of getting it right
DK

[David Warner]

Jay Dawg,

I've been reviewing some of your posts and everything is centered around smoking pot, negativity and your belief system. I've emailed you personally, suggested to you to perform tests in the astral and try to be open up to the possibility that AP exists. It seems that you enjoy this countless circle of trying to prove that AP is just a lucid dream and being condescending.

So far, the only thing that I can see from you is that you've nothing else better to do and stirr people up with your outcast of negative debates.

As I stated before to you - show me your record keeping of your journals, your experiments, and valid conclusions that astral projection doesn't exist. I've my notes, studies, research, stats - lets compare notes shall we?

Again, as a refresher - Here's my validating experiment.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19831

I've done my homework and can back up my claims - can you?

Show US, Don't Tell US!

Tvos

[RJA]

I read an interesting discussion on-line (if I could remember the location I'd post the link) of a Christian mystic describing his meditative practice that he has followed for 20-some odd years, the spiritual benefit of it and generally what his take is on the ultimate "truth".

His ultimate conclusion regarding the nature of our existence is that everything that we perceive in the universe, including our own existence is merely "God, dreaming the dream of creation" - of course, by "God", he is referring to the unfathomable creative force behind everything.  This philosophy would indicate that we are merely dream characters in God's dream.  

So are we real?  Proponents of "A Course in Miracles" (ACIM) would contend that we are in fact, not real and neither is anything we perceive.  The famous physicist David Bohm, proposed that the entire universe is merely a hologram being projected from something that we can not know (the mind of God, perhaps?).  

Throughout spirituality, science and psychology there are a variety of thought systems that in one way or another suggest that we are not as "real" as we would like to think.

[mactombs]

Proponents of "A Course in Miracles" (ACIM) would contend that we are in fact, not real and neither is anything we perceive.

I think, therefore I am not.

If nothing is real, then the only thing that has changed is what the word "real" means.