Feeling like lonely OBErs ?

[loco]

I hardly meet anyone involved in OBEs.People basically don´t care about this things.I have come up with the subject sometimes with really close friends. But they merely listen, I guess they understand, and that´s the end of the conversation. Kind of boring for both parts
Well,the fun thing is that when I lived in Amsterdam some years ago, I strangelly started to meet people that was involved in OBE experiences. I was not really asking them about it, I wasn´t even coming up with the subject...It was like a normal conversation and they would suddenly come up with words like: "You know? Last night had this and that happening to me..." They were talking about OBE experiences, no doubt.
But back to Spain, the strike was over. I try to drift conversations towards dreams sometimes...expecting some action storyes.But nothing...dreams are just dreams, you know?
Are we really so few?
And, What the hell is pople thinking about all day long?
Lucky me I found this forums oasis. This everyday spiritual desert sure lets you thirsty...
I guess I´m through one of the classic "what the hell I´m doing with my life" crisis. Will pass...
Thanks for reading

[knightlight]

I know one person who is active spiritually and wants to AP, but other than that no one I know cares or sees a point in any of it.  I agree this forum rules.  Thanks all for helping me.

[Heather B.]

I do have one friend with whom I can have 2-sided conversations about astral projection.  But he lives in another city, and we don't talk too frequently.  My sister is pretty cool and interested in the topic, but she doesn't really study or try to achieve projections.  However, she also has strange experiences that I don't--she has the psychic genes that run in my dad's family.  I am not very psychic; I'm better at putting energy out than taking it in.

[Hans Solo]

There is even a lonelier category to be in and that is the lonely scientifically inclined phaser.

First, no one will listen to you in the main stream, and then you get these boards and if you don't believe that the Angels, demons, and gnomes you meet in Focus 2 are real then all hell breaks loose from the mystics (old school) and New Agers.  

Ahh....I just hope things change once Franks book comes out, or another forum gets built for a more rational view of this subject.  If not, the mainstream will never learn about the wider reality due to their unwillingness, and rightfully so, to even entertain all the crud that surrounds this issue.

I can't wait until the scope of science zooms in on this subject and blows away this crud and exposes the truth beneath.   One can hope.

Currently we are just coming out of the  Dark Ages of Astral Projection thanks to Robert Monroe and Frank.

Han solo

[mactombs]

I can't wait until the scope of science zooms in on this subject and blows away this crud and exposes the truth beneath. One can hope.

I agree with you, Hans. On the other hand, what if it is that science comes in and settles on the highest probability is that this is all a physiological phenomenon? Well, I guess that won't be any different than right now ...
but what will ever change that?

Currently we are just coming out of the Dark Ages of Astral Projection.

I think this is true, and I think one of the most revolutionary things that's getting us to come out of the Dark Ages is the realization of the Focus 2 part of Frank's model.

[AndrewTheSinger]

I have personally instructed some people here in my city on how to achieve the experience and now they say they make it eventually. Words spread out fast so at times people come to ask me about my 'flights'. I think it's very cool.

This subject gets a bit boring to people who doesn't always remeber their dreams, but since my associates are in their teens they go along with it pretty well.

[loco]

There is even a lonelier category to be in and that is the lonely scientifically inclined phaser.

First, no one will listen to you in the main stream, and then you get these boards and if you don't believe that the Angels, demons, and gnomes you meet in Focus 2 are real then all hell breaks loose from the mystics (old school) and New Agers.  

Ahh....I just hope things change once Franks book comes out, or another forum gets built for a more rational view of this subject.  If not, the mainstream will never learn about the wider reality due to their unwillingness, and rightfully so, to even entertain all the crud that surrounds this issue.

I can't wait until the scope of science zooms in on this subject and blows away this crud and exposes the truth beneath.   One can hope.

Currently we are just coming out of the  Dark Ages of Astral Projection thanks to Robert Monroe and Frank.

Han solo

Yes, real Dark Ages. I would say Middle Age, that´s actually the feel I get from some people involved in this New Age thing. They might have an apparently interesting speech at first , but too many times turns out to be a mere pose. A big blurr.

I have no clue why science should bother about "us".  They are too busy making money right now.

Focus 2. What the hell is that? Can you tell me without getting a headache?

[Boris]

I am an engineer with a degree in physics. I have the logical
objective mind that goes with that. I have been following this for
many years. But it takes a mind with enormous scope to deal with
this. It is very complicated and contradictory.

You are not going to be able to "purify" the lore by bringing in
mentalities like mine, and get rid of what you may happen to
consider to be mythical. The reason is that a lot more than just,
say, an OBE experience is likely to be true. There is a huge field
of the paranormal that is legitimate.

My rule on this has been to stay with the evidence. Then there is a
lot of consideration to figure out exactly what the evidence
demonstrates and what it does not.  There is a long sorting
process. When the ideas get far from the evidence, I set them aside
and spend the time elsewhere. But truly talented people can come up
with a lot that can be verified, and that is the working area.

I have had some exasperation with dealing with some of the
nonsensical ideas in the new age, and have repeatedly challenged
them in forums, demanding explanations and answers. These things do
not tend to get resolved any time soon. The reality is that there
is no pure source of truth, no holy books that are pure, and almost
no channeled information that is not flawed in some way. Some of
the ideas in Seth, Elias, and others are completely impossible to
visualize or deal with, and I have had to rule them out. When I
have done this, the offended parties have not been able to defend
or explain the questionable ideas.

But I have accepted the ambiance of mysticism and nuttiness as
coming with the territory, because some of the nuttiest people are
some of the most talented psychically. Indeed, skepticism may be a
barrier to having the experiences that prove these things exist.
I  have found that an attitude of tolerance and indulgence is
helpful, while you extract what you are looking for. You do not
want to be at war with the very people whose talents are going to
reveal the hidden world to you. There is a large amount of social
learning that goes along with these explanations, and I have
learned to correct troublemaking behavior, in forums and chat
rooms. Challenging ideas in mental cults is a careful undertaking.

Here is another OBE forum:

http://lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi

You need to look down the list for the OBE forum. There are 2 forums,  one, the OBE world, one on OBE techniques.

[vanos]

The reality is that there is no pure source of truth, no holy books that are pure, and almost no channeled information that is not flawed in some way.

Amen to that! I keep saying that truth, with a capital T, can't be found here. There's far too much "distortion" and "filtering" going on here. (IF I may use some terms with a mystical taste.)
We only have our personal truths and perceptions.

A healthy dose of skepticism is always good. There is nothing worse than blindly believing in something or other. We see the results of that all around us.

Yet, belief is such a powerful force, but it is still a choice. If one is not a natural at the OBE thing one will need to choose to believe that it can be done before one may be able to do it... somehow.  

Very hard to do for a the purely logical/objective minded among us.

[loco]

I can't wait until the scope of science zooms in on this subject and blows away this crud and exposes the truth beneath.

I can´t wait either. But I can´t see how science can reveal a truth he is not looking for.

I have had some exasperation with dealing with some of the
nonsensical ideas in the new age

Who hasn´t?  

My rule on this has been to stay with the evidence. Then there is a
lot of consideration to figure out exactly what the evidence
demonstrates and what it does not. There is a long sorting
process

There might very well be evidence of the very same essence of the universe right around the corner. But I don´t think that evidence will demonstrate anything to us unless it is shown in an understandable manner. Basically, we are dealing with subjects we have no words for. And reason, science, logic, can hardly extract any meaningull pattern so far. Evidence, thus, has a value as non verval experience for me. But not as arguable data, as this sorting process you mention will leave many evidence appart just becouse there is no drawer to keep it.

[Hans Solo]

When I said the scope of science I didn't mean men with university degrees, I meant men and women like you and me looking at this issue from a scientific perspective.  The only well known people to do this as of yet are Robert Monroe and Frank.  

Don't get me wrong, I love this forum and because of Frank and others I have been able to successfully phase (not as much as I like, but that will come later).  It just seems like most people come here to pawn off the latest religious dogma (New Age and Mysticism included).  That in itself is OK, and they are OK to express their ideas, but it seems to me the only REAL progress has come from scientifically minded individuals like Monroe and Frank.  Anyone that has been to focus 2 can attest that Frank's ideas on this focus state make much more sense than the old school "Astral" concept.  This was a HUGE leap in this area, and it didn't take men in white lab coats to find this out.

I realize this concept tramples many people's beliefs here, but so did the theory of a round earth.  Hell, there is STILL a Flat Earth Society!  I am not saying that Frank's version of the wider reality is the LAW, but it is a good guidepost, just like Monroe's model was to Frank.  Who knows, when I get more adept I may change some things on Frank's model, but this is how progress is made.  

I feel most people try and fit this subject into THEIR reality and belief structures, and I find this a kin to trying to put a square peg in a round hole.  I feel it is only when we become unattached to everything  that we can truly grow and form our own beliefs.

Just a thought and hopefully a direction,

Han solo

[Froglet]

I agree with you Hans, I don't want to find out what people think.  I want to find out what's really out there.  I've found that robert monroe and a few others really attempt this.  I have very little experience yet.  but I'm working on trying to reproduce what I hear about here on the forums with phasing and such.  I think there may be more than we think out there that would be very interested in this.  but I could be wrong I have been in the past and will be in the future.

James

[loco]

When I said the scope of science I didn't mean men with university degrees, I meant men and women like you and me looking at this issue from a scientific perspective

Yes, I got you wrong here.I was alredy picturing a bunch of surgery dressed guys looking at the monitors and a volunteer ober lying in bed at the hospital plugged to all sort of sensors.

I feel most people try and fit this subject into THEIR reality and belief structures, and I find this a kin to trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

I agree with you Hans, I don't want to find out what people think. I want to find out what's really out there.

But we need to substract a coherent explanation from all this experiences, or at least, we think we need those explanations.Don´t we?

Do you mean by the "New age dogma" and such that the problem is that people is "believing" instead of actually "living" (understood as experiencing) ?

[Stookie]

I definitely feel alone when it comes to AP. My family are all serious Christians, so I don't even attempt to bring it up with them. I would rather have a good relationship with my parents then have them think I was going to Hell and they had to "save" me. My friends don't judge me or what I do, but for some reason are not the least bit interested in the subject. Just last week I was speaking to a friend about it and he said "you may as well be speaking a foreign language. I don't have a clue what your talking about." (Yet he can tell me everything he saw on MTV last week).

Obviously, I live in America. We have too much going on here to trap our attention before we get a chance to think "what happens when I go to sleep?".

[David Warner]

Stookie,

My brother and I have talked about astral projection in the past. When I first started, my brother came to me on this and wanted to learn more. He was able to consciously project afterwards and has had experiences since.

It was just a few weeks I was talking with my sister and she didn't understand what one does with astral projection, but she's felt at times that she did have a oobe. This actually blew me away because in the past, my family would try to support me, but they always thought I was in left field with this. It looks like this talent runs through my family.

Another incident way back in the day, I tried to educate a friend of mine about astral projection. He thought I was on drugs and couldn't comprehend. So I pretty much gave up on this until a few years later when we met up. He started to come to me for answers and that's when I pointed him to the books.

The best way to go about this is on-line forums, emails, keeping in touch with friends that are supportive. Its not healthy to exercise your beliefs to people that are not open to this. You'll spend more time wasting energy then directing it to the positive.

Tvos

[mrloki]

yea, i find i can really only talk about my experiences with my best friend, girlfriend and my girlfriend's dad ( he has had many experiences also). its a lonely place out there, but it feels fine to me

[David Warner]

well first, you're talking to people that don't understand astral projection and they *think* it has some association with new age, devil worship, and goes again the bible and gods plan.

what makes us so different then the rest? we enjoyed the curiosity, challenge of the unknown and wanted to proof after physical death . some people just can't handle or think beyond that. I'm not saying that people like this are bad or narrow minded  - everyone has their gig.

all you can do is post here, share your experiences and keep on working towards being a better person.


tvos

[kooler]

I haven't been able to talk to anyone at all about it, I'm quite sure that they would think I'm crazy for believing it at all. Not that I've actually projected yet, but I am trying.

[David Warner]

Kooler,

How long have you been trying and what methods r you going about?

tvos

[Stookie]

There are some advantages to being alone in this. I can go at my own pace, and don't feel any pressure to "keep up" with anyone.  I'm sure it can be tough when a friend advances quickly and you're still learning to relax.

[David Warner]

Stookie,

Indeed.... I know the feeling and its not easy when you're succeeding and explaining your experiences to someone that can barely keep awake. That happened to me back in 1988 when I first started to project. A friend of mine at the time couldn't understand why I became so proficient at it and it was hard for him to project. Now at the present, that I'm starting to break in that muscle and getting back into it I've been ave. around 7 projections a month for the last 3months. Still, I have A ways to go but I am jealous of the avid projectors... but I will get there and so will you!

Feel free to email me anytime if ya like to chat more.

Tvos

[kooler]

I haven't got to up to the point where I can apply any actual methods for getting out yet, I haven't been able to feel any vibrations, I lie down with hands at my sides and just relax my muscles and try to become less aware of my physical body, I've tried listening to astral projection bin-aural beats, it helps me relax a fair bit but never to a point where I feel vibrations.

[RooJ]

Im the same, dont know anyone interested in the subject. Ive brought up lucid dreams a few times with friends but even then its obvious they simply dont want to listen. Its strange actually, im not sure whether they simply dont believe me, or more likely are just not interested. I cant understand how someone could hear about lucid dreaming and not be interested .

>RooJ

[David Warner]

RooJ and Kooler,

The best advice that I can give you is this! I believe anyone can project and its really not that difficult. The toughest part about it is finding your technique and developing it from there. There are so many authors out there that can guide you to a method for leaving the body and you should read much that you can and explore.

Leaving the body is physical/mental work with discipline.  Just like learning how to ride a bike, or speaking a language. It takes time, a lot of energy and practice. The great part of the practice is that you can accomplish this at night or during light naps.

All day, I'm thinking about astral projection, communicating on-line to friends and the AP forum. Tracking data of what foods I eat or my sleep duration, physically exercising losing weight, mental affirmations, and most of all is the love of the desire to project.

Its a 24/7 - 365 days year job to succeed to have fluid projections and this is what it takes. There are no short-cuts!  

Hope this helps... or in btw: once you do cross that bridge and the vibrations kick in - you'll definitely know it without a doubt!

Tvos

[kooler]

Thanks for the advice, I just wish I had more spare-time on my hands!