Witnessing the End of Days?

[The AlphaOmega]

I'm just wondering what all of you think about all the disasters occuring so quickly around the world and whether or not you think it might be a sign that the second coming, or a great change of similarity, could be near?  I know natural disasters have always occured and that they are a natural part of the world.  But with our technology now we are able to observe them all over the world and it's becoming clear that they are increasing and becoming more distructive.  Examples...
1.  Mount Saint Helen erupts in the 80's.
2.  A 9 point earthquake causes a tsunami in Asia
3.  Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans and is labeled the worst natural disaster in Americas history... it is the 5th hurricane this year.  
4.  Much of the national guard is across seas and unable to aid in the relief, as they are fighting a war.  The economy of this country is in serious jeaopardy now that only one state has been hit by this disaster, and as it was bad already this could really put a huge damper on our current way of life.

I'm not suggesting this is the end of the world itself, humanity is fully capable of adapting and getting through such crisis.  But do some of you think that maybe the only way we're going to be able to do this is to have a natural, massive shift in conciousness and possibly, within the next couple generations, enter the next stage of human evolution?

[Greenrat]

yeah things will change i think too, too many things are pointing at it from my individual perspective..
theres been 4 boing 747 crashes in the last half year, im not saying "ohhhh add 7,4 and 7 and get 18=coding for evolution"  but its still an odd occurence"
and this whole new orleans thing,  6 months after a tsunami, its like a "cleansing"  (holds flame sheild)

[ItachiUchiha]

1.  Mount Saint Helen erupts in the 80's.
2.  A 9 point earthquake causes a tsunami in Asia
3.  Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans and is labeled the worst natural disaster in Americas history... it is the 5th hurricane this year.  
4.  Much of the national guard is across seas and unable to aid in the relief, as they are fighting a war.  The economy of this country is in serious jeaopardy now that only one state has been hit by this disaster, and as it was bad already this could really put a huge damper on our current way of life.

You forgot the 4 hurricanes that hit florida in less than a month, didnt cause to much chaos but it was pretty rare

[Namra]

Evolution?  No, not yet, at least not by nature.  Our evolution is already coming and by our own technology.

The Second Coming is a possibility, maybe next fifteen years or so.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

In this life, change is constant.

[Gandalf]

The Second Coming is a possibility, maybe next fifteen years or so.


Yawn... you know how many centuries christian types have been saying that? For them it's *always* about to be the end of the world. After all the millenium crud I have given up trying to help people see past this obsession, what's the point?

Doug

PS As for the rate of disasters 'increasing', such a statement is highly dubious. These events have always occured around the world. What HAS changed is our ability to report on them and to spot them. Even within the last few decades we have increased our reportage of them; the events themselves have not increased by any great degree. People who say this are basing their statistics on earlier periods, even a few decades ago, when the very statistics themselves were not as accurate as they are now.

For 'end times' obsessives and 'rapture ready' freaks however, common sense has never got in the way of a good foam at the mouth, nor is it likely to any time soon.

[Namra]

The Second Coming is a possibility, maybe next fifteen years or so.


Yawn... you know how many centuries christian types have been saying that? For them it's *always* about to be the end of the world. After all the millenium crud I have given up trying to help people see past this obsession, what's the point?

I hate to tell you this but I am not Christian.  I am not obseesed with The Second Coming and I was responding to a post by Alpha Omega.  I take your comment with great offense.  You never know the world could come to an end even though I doubt it will.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Namra, what leads you to believe that a Second Coming is going to happen in the next 15 years?


I always liked this quote:

"The moment you come to trust chaos, you see God clearly. Chaos is divine order, versus human order. Change is divine order, versus human order. When the chaos becomes safety to you, then you know you're seeing God clearly." - Spiritual Madness by Caroline Myss

[Gandalf]

Namra_

Sorry to have caused offence but how is it that you are not 'end times obsessive' or christian when you say "The Second Coming is a possibility, maybe next fifteen years or so."

Sounds pretty fringe christian and 'end times fanatic' to me.

Doug

[Hans Solo]

Yawn... you know how many centuries christian types have been saying that? For them it's *always* about to be the end of the world. After all the millenium crud I have given up trying to help people see past this obsession, what's the point?

Doug

PS As for the rate of disasters 'increasing', such a statement is highly dubious. These events have always occured around the world. What HAS changed is our ability to report on them and to spot them. Even within the last few decades we have increased our reportage of them; the events themselves have not increased by any great degree. People who say this are basing their statistics on earlier periods, even a few decades ago, when the very statistics themselves were not as accurate as they are now

Couldn't have said it better myself, but wait WAIT 2012 is coming soon.... AHHHH! (runs around as if hair is on fire)

I take your comment with great offense

I sorry YOU feel that way.  You should stop other peoples' opinions effecting your inner state. You are the only one that can control the way you feel.  If you are offended because someone does not agree with YOUR opinions then you will have a long miserable road ahead of you.

I own my opinions but you don't have to,
Han

[IequalMC2]

Well, what can I say.

"The moment you come to trust chaos, you see God clearly. Chaos is divine order, versus human order. Change is divine order, versus human order. When the chaos becomes safety to you, then you know you're seeing God clearly." - Spiritual Madness by Caroline Myss

Thanks that makes alot of sense to me.

Dont Panic!!!

Must be in the next 15 years then, nice one to the Boss of all Bosses!!!

Dont worry Iequalmc2 (EVERYONE ELSE IN MY LANGUAGE) everthings going to be fine.

Decode the following

Tupac: Hail Mary
Tupac: God Bless The Dead
Tupac: Troublesome
Tupac: I Int Mad at U

Or Mark Morrison: Return of the Mac

"I own my opinions but you don't have to" <-- Quality statement Han, Quality

[Namra]

Namra, what leads you to believe that a Second Coming is going to happen in the next 15 years?

Like I said, I never said I "thought" it was going to happen in the next 15 years.  I just thought it was a possibility.

amra_

Sorry to have caused offense but how is it that you are not 'end times obsessive' or christian when you say "The Second Coming is a possibility, maybe next fifteen years or so."

Sounds pretty fringe christian and 'end times fanatic' to me.

Doug?

Quite simple.  I am a Futurist.  If that counts as a religon then I have a religion.  If it doesn't then I don't.  I never believed that any person say by the name Jesus Christ had super powers.  However, I believe that if everyone else believes in something it becomes some sort of reality, astral, or otherwise.  So, the way I figure it if enough people in fifteen years from now believe there is another messiah and enough crap is going on then, by golly, there will be a messiah because people will believe that person to be a messiah.  Everything, is perspective.  9/11 happening is perspective.  Enough people believed it happen and so the events (two planes crashing into twin towers) of 9/11 are taken as fact.  However, the two planes crashing is not necessarily the ultimate reality that truly exist but the reality that we have created for ourselves.

I hope this helps clarify what I meant by initial comment.

Hans Solo, I meant I took offense in him calling me something that I was not a christian or ends of time fanatic, neither of which I am.  It really did not affect my inner state.  I just wish that Gandalf would have analyzed my comments more before jumping to conclusions that I am "such and such" kind of person.  I wasn't really offended by any differences of opinion.  I have no problem whatsover if he thinks differently.

[CaCoDeMoN]

Quite simple. I am a Futurist. If that counts as a religon then I have a religion. If it doesn't then I don't. I never believed that any person say by the name Jesus Christ had super powers. However, I believe that if everyone else believes in something it becomes some sort of reality, astral, or otherwise. So, the way I figure it if enough people in fifteen years from now believe there is another messiah and enough crap is going on then, by golly, there will be a messiah because people will believe that person to be a messiah. Everything, is perspective. 9/11 happening is perspective. Enough people believed it happen and so the events (two planes crashing into twin towers) of 9/11 are taken as fact. However, the two planes crashing is not necessarily the ultimate reality that truly exist but the reality that we have created for ourselves.

This is an interesting point of view. We don't hear much about things like second coming in Poland, but there's more and more talk about 2012. This is creating an extremely negative thoughtform, and certainly it does not help to solve world's problems. In fact it may, like you say cause bad events to manifest. Why all popular prophecies must be so negative? Maybe this is caused by laziness? People are too lazy to make the world better and because of that they are waiting for some sort of miracle like 2012.

[Gandalf]

I wouldn't worry about this whole theory of 'thought forms' resulting in causing the events themselves. A lot of people have been worried by this idea but they needn't be so. While I actually do subscribe to the theory of 'thought forms' generally, there seems be some kind of natural mechanism in place that prevents such *mass* 'thought forms' from translating into reality.

To see why we don't need to worry, all you need to do is look at recent past history. Millions of people where simply fixated with the whole 2000AD end of the world crap, given extra validity by the Millennium Bug, Nostradamus and all the rest of it. People in fact have been building up to it for decades if not centuries, just like they did at the turn of the FIRST millennium 1000AD (when again nothing happened even although the ENTIRE christian world believed it would be the 'end time').

FAR more people where fixated and worried about 2000AD (with added Nostradamus for good measure) than by any other future date in recent memory.

What happened when the clocks struck midnight (the point in time which millions and millions of people had been mulling over either consciously or subconsciously for years)?

That's right...zip! Even the millennium bug, the technological manifestation of this fear, largely evaporated (although partly to do with lots of hard work on behalf of programmers of course!).

Now FAR, FAR more people were aware and concerned about the Millennium than have even heard about 2012 or any other date you can imagine, so for this straightforward reason, I have nothing to be concerned about by thought form jesus's, flying saucers or exploding planets.

Even if people do eventually become aware about 2012 or any other so-called event in anywhere near the same numbers as the vastly more symbolic 'Millenium 2000', we have already seen that this does not translate into 'real-life end of time' scenarios.

It's all about common sense at the end of the day (or the end of time... no, let's not go there!)

Doug

[Rob]

hhmmmm....

PS As for the rate of disasters 'increasing', such a statement is highly dubious. These events have always occured around the world. What HAS changed is our ability to report on them and to spot them. Even within the last few decades we have increased our reportage of them; the events themselves have not increased by any great degree. People who say this are basing their statistics on earlier periods, even a few decades ago, when the very statistics themselves were not as accurate as they are now.

Well Doug, I cannot agree with this. To the best of my knowledge, the number of natural disasters really is increasing by significant proportions. Like over in the US the yearly tornado record keeps going up. Earthquake activity does also appear to be on the up. And, the global warming thing, we are getting totally baked down here - like most the warmest years on record have been in the last 5-10 years (records which stand for hundreds of years). Further, the gulf stream is slowing down, el nino, desertification, etc.

If we now expand our scope of weird things, the sun never reached it solar minumum (should have been reducing after 1999) but carried on increasing in activity (I haven't been following too close for the last year but think this is still the case). It is now mainstream that our planets magnetic poles are starting to flip (in which case there may be a period with reduced shielding, which would not be good). And I have heard that other planets in our solar system have flipped matgnetically relatively recent, although I cannot confirm this.
From a technological perspective, we are on the cusp on some seriously powerful technologies that have the potential to either free or kill us all. IMO.
I wont go deep into the social stats, the fact that so many prophesies end or are claimed to apply about now (yes including nostradamus - whats important is not the exact date but that many bunch together into roughly the same period, eg mayan (close to vedic timelines too I think) and native american), the chemtrail problem, the military corruption and weapons issues (HAARP...scary), the absolute rape and destruction of our environment, the continual rise in corporate power and the now farcical nature of democracy, social trends, etc etc.

Interesting times....

Rob

[Gandalf]

Yes but if you pick any period of history you will find those who believe that the world is about to go pear shaped and what's more, they will have their own collection of data to back up their claims, either by noting the increase in war (as if there was ever an absence of it!) or disease, plague (citizens of Europe in the 13th century were convinced that the end of the world had come) or noting the recent increase in natural disasters.

This age is no different.

I think that the reason apocalypse fantasies have been so popular for so long over the centuries is that many people who are dissatisfied with their own lives secretly hope for some kind of cataclysm or earth shattering event via apocalypses, 'earth changes' or 'second comings'; it's a way of coping with shortcomings in their own lives. IMV the good news is that true change to one's life CAN come about but true change comes from within, not without.

Doug

[Rob]

Yes, but a few ignorant peasants thinking the world is going to come to an end cannot be used as evidence against that the earth changes that are going on today as being entirely in peoples own heads...like the boy who cried wolf, perhaps. Yes, people have thought that the stuff of revelations is about to come true since soon after Jesus. If I remember correctly, an Judaic army was totally wiped out by the romans after they decided it was end times time, and that God would be on their side, so they would of course win. Bad call. Another example, someone on the old astral research forums told me about some of their friends who thought the world was going to end in the 70's and started breeding giant rabbits to help get them through. Must've felt a bit silly afterwards, but at least they had the option of making a new fur coat   .

Similarly, the psychological reasons you mention, just because a lot of people have a death wish on society, themselves, or have watched too many films, does not mean that everyone who observes earth changes can be fitted to this category. In exactly the same way, I could say that your arguments are based upon rationalisations aimed at securing your belief that the world is not going to significantly change, because you are happy with the comfort zone you currently inhabit and are uncomfortable with the idea it might all be blown away in the near future. Ultimately though, this just shifts the emphasis away from the core issues to secondary points, although I will admit the desires you mentional must play some part in the popularity of "end times" stuff.
btw the same techniques are used by scientists to combat theories they dont like - attack the people not the theory, that way you can neatly sidestep all the facts you like!

IMO, we need to look at the evidence, and we then need to verify that evidence to make sure it didnt originate from someone like hoagland!
I mean, sure, nothing could happen. Science could fix all our environmental and energy problems, politicians could suddenly let go of their vested interests and the military/industrial complex stop being so damn evil, the weather could clear up and global warming vanish. I just see the alternatives as more likely options... and remember that when the roman empire fell, they didn't have thousands of nukes lying around.. It appears that in Atlantean times they faced a similar situation, which is perhaps why there are radioactive cities buried all over india....("Vimana" book edited by Childress for more info (highly recommend!! Pretty badly written in places but still mindblowing)

Rob

[Gandalf]

Fair enough I guess. I suppose its just every time I see the phrase 'end times' I get these visions of all the typical 'rapture-ready' freaks that just get on my nerves with their negative fantasies that say more about themeselves than any possible 'earth changes', but I agree that the whole issue of earth changes should not simply be dismissed just because there is a fringe element that discredits it.

It is this same problem that plagues the subject of UFOs as well. I used to be really into that, but the fringe element is just so bad. The x-files didnt help either, in fact it was the best thing that could ever happen for those who ARE concealing evidence, as now they can dismiss the entire subject with a simple line 'you've been watching too much of the x-files!'. For that reason, decent UFO research which had been gaining respectibility towards the end of the 80's with some of the great work of Timothy Good and others, was killed off almost overnight thanks to Mulder & Scully. Now the subject is pretty much discredited once again, although Dr Green and others of the Disclosure Project are attempting to get things back on track again.

Doug

[Rob]

Uch! Yeah too true. There are so many things like that which get my goat. Pen and Teller for instance, some people find it hilarious when they befuddle people from fringe groups into saying something stupid, personally I think people like them, Randi and others, and probably being paid with the specific purpose in mind of discrediting dangerous subjects. Hired intellectual bullies and sheep-herders....grrr.

Yeah disclosure project was pretty impressive! Are they still taking that forward? I would be interested to hear if Greer got anywhere with his hunt for over-unity generators. Must take a look.

Rob

[Stevo]

It's funny to think of these natural disasters and significant happening in North America in the recent couple of years as the end of days. Not that I've studied anything, but I am aware of constant natural disasters happening Eurasia-wise. If you watch the news on any day for long enough (At least here), there'll be a report of an earthquake or flood or hurricane somewhere over there. This has been going on for years. On top of that so has continuous manslaughter. I must say that unfortunately a lot of people have a very localised view on the world to see the listed occurances as 'The Second Coming'

Three years ago I did a project in Religion class to 'herald the second coming of Christ.' Basically I wanted a good mark, so I exploited my religious teacher. In the process I went through the bibile and patched everything together that I could, making comparrisons and predictions between scripture and current events. It was practically impossible, and sometimes I had to bend the truth. To this day I still didn't even believe myself.

Although if you want to go by scripture, we have a good 1000 years of peace before the second coming. So far, it hasn't been very peaceful.

PS: I got 100% for that project.

[The AlphaOmega]

Thanks for all the replies.  This is probably the most that I've ever recieved on any of my posts, and they are all very interesting.  Allow me to post some of my own views as such up to this point.
First, the weather and disaster factors.  It's certainly true that natural disasters have always occured all over the planet.  It's what makes our planet change and function the way it does.  Without them our planet wouldn't have become the way it is now.  But at this time in history humanity is changing the world in unnatural ways.  There is much we are doing on a technological level that is changing the make up of the planet and causing it to react in ways such as storms.  For example, the emissions of our factories have caused the ozone layer to decrease more then it ever has naturally.  The warming of the earth has significant effects on all aspects of it workings.  Warmer weather is melting Alaskan  glaciers in huge proportions, obviously creating vaster areas of water.  This water is also becoming warmer, and as this warm water circulates through the equator and evaporates it sets more sublime conditions for hurricanes, which not only feed on warmer water but also warmer air... and now they are getting more of both.  The hurricanes that are hitting this nation are not the complete result of nature alone.  Though they may have occured regardless, things humans are doing are actually fueling them, making them larger, more dangerous, and more probable.  On a biological scale it's probably quite miniscule and we're in no real danger of extinction because of it... but lots of people are still dieing.
Do I think this is a sign of the end of the world?  Most likely not.  As Gandalf stated, for many centuries men have been talking about the coming of a Messiah.  In the bible His coming was prophesied for thousands of years, generation after generation.  But lets not forget, eventually he showed up (if you believe in Him that is).  Should we be expecting Him tomorrow?  History tells us no.  But history doesn't really play a role in Gods will, and Christ did say, "Be ye always prepared, for I will come as a thief in the night".  Lastly, I'm with Gandalf on the argument of belief ='s reality.  The majority of the world can believe that a certain individual is a messiah.  That doesn't create a messiah, just a following.  And we have seen a few instances of small groups believing the messiah is in the flesh teaching them... then burning themselves alive in a school with their children.  Does that mean that if just a few more people believed in this man that he would have became the messiah?  Doubtful.  Christ doesn't need us to believe in Him for Him to exist.  None of you have ever met me, never seen me, know nothing of my life, and with probably never have another thought about me.  Do I need these things to remain alive?  Do I vanish into the void if the world does not believe in me?  Simply, no.  So if such a thing doesn't occur to me, why would it happen to a far superior being than myself?  He exists, He watches and helps us, and He lies in wait for His eventual return (a time which He will choose, not us), and which may not even be in the flesh.  Such things simply aren't known to us.  It's helpful to believe in this if you wish to prepare for it.  But disbelieving doesn't take it all away.

[TuperYabba]

Hey thought I'd chip in, Nostradamus prophesied The third great war would begin with the fall of the two towers. More precisely,
The king of evil shall fall from the sky,
Striking two towers down,
However, where chaos should have spawned, union formed, a union of hate,
And thus begins the third great war.
Note: I read this a year back in a now deleted e-mail, thus this is heavily aproximated. The general message is however the same.

[Kazbadan]

I used to be worried with the end pf days, when i was younger (teen).

Now  i dont give a s*** to that. I just want to enjoy my life.

[Gandalf]

TuperYabba_

That 9/11 Nostradamus 'prophesy' is a well known fake. I know as I have and am quite familiar with all of Nostradamus' works. The fake 9/11 was inspired by the famous genuine 'July 1999' prophesy (which never happened as it turned out!).

The fake 9/11 prophesy has been doing the rounds on the internet for so long that many people now think it is a genuine one, but it isn't, trust me.

Doug

PS for peoples general information, the famous 1999 prophesy went thus:

'In the year 1999 and seven months,
from the sky will come the great king of terror,
He will bring back to life the great king of the mongols,
Before and after, war reigns happily.'


As you can see, Nost was tripping out big time. It never happened.

[Froglet]

Hello Gandalf,

I haven't studied Nostrodomus too much... or theories of parallel universes.  But as an open thinker parallel Universes (where events happen differently) could be a possibility for why Nostrodomus made "errors." Or he could just be wrong.  I would actually like to hear what you think.  I realise this is a little off topic but it goes with the previous few posts, sorry for devianting more.

James