Religious Damage

[runlola]

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[kenshin]

while i'm not religious, i don't think its right to say its religions fault for all this (besides don't most religions forbid aborition and sex outside of marrige, so how can they say its increases aborion rates and teen pregnancy?), sounds like a scientists cheap ploy to try and get everyone to stop believing in religion and focus on what scientists can proove, though i dont dissagree about the violence cause of religions part (christians and islamic religions are the main ones)

[James S]

While I don't have much respect for the major religions due to their track record in the treatment of their fellow humans,  I believe it's not so much the religions that cause problems as it is the fanatics.
Thing is, fanatics come in all beliefs, not just religious.

I wonder though how many of the problems described in this article could be attributed to good old fashioned greed?

[RenaissanceMan]

while i'm not religious, i don't think its right to say its religions fault for all this (besides don't most religions forbid abortion and sex outside of marriage, so how can they say its increases abortion rates and teen pregnancy?)

These things are more likely to occur precisely because they are forbidden.
This study makes a lot of sense to me.  Morality, ethics have nothing to do with religion.  Religion tends to create unrealistic standards (no sex outside marriage is a good example) that people usually cannot comply with (just look at all the Priests molesting children).

[laiana]

This article is just stupid.  Its making broad, sweeping generalizations which quite frankly have no merit.

I for one would probably think that the rate of homocide for example, might have more to do with the fact that just about everyone in the US has a gun, rather than "religion".

The English don't run around with guns, perhaps that could count? There are SO MANY other factors that need to be taken into consideration here.

[Beth]

I for one would probably think that the rate of homocide for example, might have more to do with the fact that just about everyone in the US has a gun, rather than "religion".

The problem here in the States with 'religion' is that it is a major moblizing force.   In the past two presidential elections, Bush has won primarily through the Christian Right Wing majority.  

Every Sunday there were political speeches being made in churches across this country.  Christians came out in droves in both elections.  Religion in this country is very political...for example: Gun control was a major issue in the 2000 election and abortion/homosexuality in 2004.  Bush has run on a 'pro-gun, anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality' tickets both terms...and the Christian Right was right behind him...

Other issues that are controlled by religion:
It is totally absurd when religious nuts have the power to keep 'Evolution' from being freely taught in public school systems. And here in this country they do...

It is crazy not to teach our young people about birthcontrol and safe sex.  Here in this country, religion prevents this from being a major health issue for our young people...

It is a travesty that children are brainwashed from a very early age that everyone that is not a 'christian' is 'bad' and that only 'christians' have access to God...

When 'religion' says its 'good' or 'bad'...and a politician agrees...then elections are won...as long as 'religion' represents the majority.  I am looking forward to the day when a presidential candidate runs on the coat tails of 'religion' and looses by a huge margin.

Waiting for that better day...
Beth

[Leyla]

This article is no a surprise to me at all. The most funadmentalist people I've known were covering for their own corruption. Trying to compensate for all their "dirtyness" with a clean christian image.

Here is one fine example who contacted me from a dating website. Good for a laugh.

http://www.okcupid.com/profile?tuid=5475717646128070539

[Shinobi]

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[Kodemaster]

LOL! A Christian womaniser!!! Reminds me of a guy that used to post over and over again on a personal ad site I used to run called "Let's Wait Singles Connection"...he used to say what a Christian he was, and then in the next breath basically say that heavset women are only good for one thing (guess what that was)...any many other sexist things...

[greatoutdoors]

Shinobi, you just saved me a bit of typing. Imagine how long this would have been otherwise!  

First to the topic at hand, the article: Runlola, I hope you are putting this up just to spark a discussion (successful!)    rather than actually to support its supposed validity. The article sounds like purely the rantings of an anti-religious zealot. Just a quick reading shows it to be way long in rhetoric and way short on evidence.

In scientific circles, the first questions asked about such an article are: 1. What is the source for your statistics; and 2. Has your article been published in critically reviewed scientific journals. I have never heard of the "Journal of Religion and Society." Of course, this doesn't mean it is not a mainstream publication, but I have my doubts.

As to Times Online, I assume it may be affiliated with Times Magazine – does anyone know whether this is true? If so, folks need to realize that it is a "news" magazine in name only. As with many in the media today, they have their own agenda and never mind truth.

Now, to address a couple of Beth's points.

Beth, I join with Shinobi in saying that I am not picking on you, but I must say I disagree with everything you said.

First you are in error in saying the "Christian" factor had any major impact on the last few political races. Gore's lack of acquaintance with truth played a part, as did Kerry's lack of any commitment to a position. Had Clinton been running, either time, he would undoubtedly still be our president, for good or ill. If religion could elect a president they would have done it when their own candidate was running (was it Robertson?).

You seem to be saying that our government is controlled by religion. Uhhh, have you not been paying attention to court rulings in the last twenty years or so? Religion is being systematically and successfully eliminated from our society – and in my opinion that is one of the main reasons for the increase in crime (but that's a whole 'nother discussion).

Evolution has been taught in Texas since at least the early 50's, and I did not hear of the Creationist Theory until I was out of college.

Public schools are not only teaching birth control and "safe" sex, but are pushing hard on how to handle unwanted pregnancies. The only time I see court cases coming to light is when someone wants to teach abstinence. I don't mean to be tacky, but wonder if you live in a very small town? Sometimes smaller towns can get away with doing stuff that would never fly in larger areas and that's why I ask.

I also disagree that children are being brainwashed into religion. In my experience, and again as reflected in the court decisions I have heard, the opposite is true. A child in public school today will not hear the word "God" and most certainly will not receive any religious teaching. Now if you are talking about private religious schools, then you could have a point. But that's sort of the reason for "freedom,"isn't it?

Lastly, I disagree with your closing statement. I am not a church-goer and I am about 98% convinced that there is nothing at all beyond our present life, but I know that a nation without a firm moral and religious conviction is a nation in anarchy. The increase in crime and single parent families, etc., etc., is, in my opinion, caused by the lack of any moral commitment to anything – maybe it stems from the "If it feels good, do it." mantra of the 60's.

[Leyla]

While it is clear that religious factions in the US are very active, it is a lot less clear that religionism favored the Republicans more than the Democrats.

LMAO!!!! How did you say that with a straight face?

It is a travesty that children are brainwashed from a very early age that everyone that is not a 'christian' is 'bad' and that only 'christians' have access to God...

How prevalent do you think this is?

I had a Fundamentalist Christian explain that to me just two days ago using that exact phrasing.

(This, as he was in a bar getting drunk, explaining to me his reasons for cheating on his wife. )

"Gore's lack of acquaintance with truth played a part,"

You mean  like "There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?"

I am familiar with the "abstanance based" sex ed. (We had it in my school.) They tell you that if you are not a virgin when you marry you might as well put a gun to your head now, because your life is over.

Youre going to divorce, your children will hate you, you will be financially ruined, on and on. But how many lose their virginity through force?

They completely forget that for one out of every 4 girls and one out of every 5 boys it's all ready too late. They were preyed upon by a stepfather, priest, or neighbor, when they were too young to understand.

They convince them their life was already over before it began. May of these already troubled children then become sexually permiscuious or get into drugs.

Once their virginity is gone (through force or bad judgment) they go on to sleep with anybody who asks.

"What's the differance," they think "I'm damaged goods."

I find it sick to teach little girls that all their value and worth is between their legs. How are they any differant from a prostitute?

"SOCIETIES ARE WORSE OFF WITH GOD ON THEIR SIDE"

They didn't need to do a study.  This was proven years ago during the Dark Ages (also known as the "Age of Faith") when they raped and tourtured 9 million people to death.

Even the local "haunted house" for Halloween is doing a "Dark Ages" theme taken exactly from history books about meathods used in christian tourture dungeons.

That's how they advertise it: "It's scarier because it's real! See it, then talk about it!"

[Shinobi]

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[Leyla]

There were no WMDs. Bush made a self-deprecating joke about this fact, peering under his own desk and saying "Those weapons of mass destruction have gotta be here somewhere." Ha. Ha. Ha.

As for your link, I can show you Nazi web sites that purport to "prove" deaths of Jews in concentrations camps were "wildly inflated numbers" too.

[Ybom]

Leyla,

Sorry about the delay, and thanks much for helping illustrate my primary point...

You fiend. This is a debate tactic and at first I thought you were actually thanking someone! [insert random explicative here] Well, at least you've discredited anything you say here to me. Leyla wins due to disqualification.

[Shinobi]

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[Leyla]

How is it Shinobi manages to talk so much, yet say so little? (Politics major?)

[Shinobi]

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