ADULTRY/CHEATING

[runlola]

 

[James S]

I feel I should be saying "So what's your point???"

Ethics? Morals? If so then who's morals?

For those of us in full time relationships - let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone.

I had a look at some of the different meanings for Adultery as per different dictionaries:

American Heratige:
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.
(Straight to the point)

Legal Dictionary:
consensual sexual relations when one of the participants is legally married to another. In some states it is still a crime and is grounds for divorce for the spouse of the married adulterer. The criminal charges are almost never brought, and in those states in which there is no-fault divorce (or dissolution), adultery is legally not relevant.
(Now we know the legalities)

Kids Net Dictionary:
...
(Can't talk about it. It's grown-ups stuff!)

Sex Dictionary:
Voluntary intercourse by a married man or woman with a person other than his or her spouse; also known as swinging, or, by agreement, swapping.
(This lot are in to all the good stuff!)

New Catholic Dictionary:
Carnal intercourse of a married person and another who is not the wife or husband. It is a diriment impediment to marriage between two who, during the time of a legitimate marriage, commit the crime pledging themselves to marriage later; or, who commit it during the time of a legitimate marriage and one or the other brings about the death of one of the married parties.
(The masters of rules and regulations. And you though the Legal Dictionary was going to be hard to understand!)

God Rules.net:
(Lots and lots of links and references, but they can't think for themselves so you'll have to look at someone else's opinion.)

And now for a more interesting take on adultery. From Conversations With God, Book 1, in discussing the Ten Commandments... which, incedentally, God refutes ever having made because He said He's never commanded us to do anything, and why should He!
"You will not defile the purity of love with dishonesty or deceit, for this is adulterous. I promise you, when you have found God, you shall not [want to] commit this adultery."
(Bit broader and more to the heart of the matter that one.)

So what does it mean to us?

For me, cheating is taking away from your partner something that you would otherwise have given them.
Adultery? I'd say my wife and I both commit it on an almost daily basis considering there are things that we both do not tell each other, and we certainly do not only have eyes for each other. Thing is, we know this, and it has never stopped us loving each other or being best friends. It's one of those moral hang-ups we don't worry too much about.

Blessings,
James.

[knightlight]

people where never meant to me monogamous to begin with.  I dont think that hurting someone else by cheating on them is right, but I think societies views on how people should behave together defy reality and the common human urge.

[Hans Solo]

nice topic-


Cheating in a relationship implies that one cheated on the "social contract".  Period.   Basically it means that one person violated the trust.

So, if the social contract is to only be intimate with with your partner and you violate that contract you "cheated" on that trust.  For goodness sake if you are going to cheat either: don't tie yourself down with being exclusive (what I do), or dissolve the social contract before you "cheat" on the other persons trust.

Everything else is just a rationalization for betraying another persons trust.

Adultery / Cheating is having sex with someone you are not in love with. You might even be married to them, but if you no longer love them, then sex together is adultery. Sex with someone you love is not adultery

 illogical arguement because the premise is incorrect (first line).  This is how politicians con the public.  They make the definitions mean anything they want.  With a faulty premise you can argue anything you want.

I feel I should be saying "So what's your point???"

Ethics? Morals? If so then who's morals?

For those of us in full time relationships - let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone

 It comes down to the basic law "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  It is just about being a stand up person.  It is funny that I am talking about this because I date from 1-5 girls at any one time, but I always let them know that we are not exclusive.  In fact, I tell them this when we first meet and continually through out the relationship (its not my fault they want to be the one to change me )

[Ybom]

I am monogamous. I usually settle down in a long term (most would even go so far as to say boring) relationship for years at a time. However it's not boring to me. Patience is a very tough path to follow, and sometimes it gets to me just like everyone else.

My current relationship is coming up on 2 years, and the relationship before that was around 4 years.

Adultry isn't in my book, no matter how much the thoughts are. Usually I think about other women just to make sure I'm ok, since not being able to means I'm moody. For the past few months I have a hard time thinking about other women even, almost to the point of forcing myself to.

Now, for what I consider in any relationship, I doubt you can put blame on someone who is adulturous. No matter how sneaky that person is, the significant others will most likely find it easy to spot, if they are truly significant. Usually people like to say "oh shnookems would never do that to me!" But if you're having to say that to a close friend, then something is probably amiss. A professional and dedicated adulturer, for instance someone who is trying to best Don Juan, will most likely not be doing anything wrong. They are mastering the art of giving their love to as many people as they can, with nary a prude standing in their way.

Or how about a Satanist, who only truly cares about themself in the end? Adultry probably worries them a bit because it may come back and haunt them later on in the form of an angry one night stand, but if they plan every last detail then this shouldn't affect them much.

Anyways...

Hans Solo,
You don't really cheat on anyone then, you just like to share and as defined above, swing/swap (however I usually use this term in consenting bisexual groups...fun fun fun but seems rare). You should get angry when people try to change you, and then settle down with the one person that never complains lol.

NodesofYesod,
Two hands? No that doesn't work, since most people get a rush from doing something wrong. Mastur... is a generally accepted act that involves no emotions whatsoever, which would definitely not be considered wrong by most, so it doesn't usually take the edge off. I hate how the word sounds though, so I tend to run it short.

runlola,
I love your radical viewpoint, no matter how seemingly impossible it is to do. How are humans going to be unconditional in their love for a specific other in this world today, the way they are brought up? I think the only way would be telepathy.

knightlight,
You base your thought on our observations of animals in groups. The modern man may be monogamous, but I think it depends on society and environment more than humanity.

[James S]

Ybom,

Adultry isn't in my book, no matter how much the thoughts are. Usually I think about other women just to make sure I'm ok, since not being able to means I'm moody. For the past few months I have a hard time thinking about other women even, almost to the point of forcing myself to.

My wife actually considers there to be something wrong with me if I don't look admiringly at or think sexually about other women. I know too she has no reservations about admiring or thinking about other men.

I feel absolutely no jealousy here.
This also relates to what Hans was saying about trust. I trust my wife. What I trust in is not that she will never look at, flirt with, or even get intimate with another guy. I place no restrictions on her. I trust in her love for me, her desire to be with me as a partner and companion.
This is because we place our companionship above sex in our relationship.
Neither do we confuse sex for love. Sex can (and should) be a physical expression of love, but it's not the be-all and end-all of love.


James.

[cecilguy1971]

Many times when people get married, they do it by swearing by whatever it is they hold sacred to love this one to the exclusion of others and never forsaking them. What does that say about us if we violated that kind of a pact?

Sorry, but adultery is wrong no matter how it is "justified". If one wishes to become involved with another person, at least break the connection with the first person before dishonouring them by being with the second.

There is nothing wrong with admiring other people. It is only natural and I think its part our biological make up. But if we are going to act out every impulse we have, then that isn't saying much for us as intelligent beings is it?

[Ybom]

Many times when people get married, they do it by swearing by whatever it is they hold sacred to love this one to the exclusion of others and never forsaking them. What does that say about us if we violated that kind of a pact?

Sorry, but adultery is wrong no matter how it is "justified". If one wishes to become involved with another person, at least break the connection with the first person before dishonouring them by being with the second.

There is nothing wrong with admiring other people. It is only natural and I think its part our biological make up. But if we are going to act out every impulse we have, then that isn't saying much for us as intelligent beings is it?

And completely disowning someone for being dishonest is intelligent? Last I checked both sides of the fence are human whether you like it or not, no matter how different they act.

I'm not saying I agree with the concept of cheating, but despising someone for being a cheater doesn't help you or them to become better people; and who is the stronger person anyways? They were strong enough to cheat, yet you were strong enough to hate them. I consider it a tie. You are no better, until you move on and learn to live on the same planet as them again.

[Hans Solo]

feel absolutely no jealousy here.
This also relates to what Hans was saying about trust. I trust my wife. What I trust in is not that she will never look at, flirt with, or even get intimate with another guy. I place no restrictions on her. I trust in her love for me, her desire to be with me as a partner and companion.
This is because we place our companionship above sex in our relationship.
Neither do we confuse sex for love. Sex can (and should) be a physical expression of love, but it's not the be-all and end-all of love.

 Then this is your social contract, so if she gets intimate with another then there is no "cheating" involved.  There is no trust to be broken in this case because there was no boundaries that you, or she, crossed.

Han

[Kazbadan]

James, i am surprised that you dont mind if your girl thinks on other men or get intimate with them. But thats a way of think and i respect that.

If i am in a relationship in which i want to be a monogamic relation, i will be upset if she thinks on other guys. Dont ask me way. Its nature. Its animal instinct.

Hans Solo, having many girls its great! lol :d

lucky guy

but in your case you are not being "oneitis" (i mean, not loving a girl just because "she is special" or "she is the one"). Thats more healthy.

[jilola]

Adultery as it is defined implies ownership.

I for one can't really see how one can own another. Can anyone explain how?
It's choices, not obligations. Being not being had.

2cents & L&L Jouni

[Ybom]

Adultery as it is defined implies ownership.

You are wrong. There is no ownership, but there is a [generally silent] promise between two parties to not do certain things.

My problem isn't about the actual cheating, but the concept that most likely if your "loved one" gets involved with someone willing to do something like that, then most likely the person playing you has a habit of doing that with many others as well, increasing the risks for diseases and such. This thought alone makes me feel that if my shnookems is willing to do that then there's a more than likely chance that she'll come back with a random std to give to me. I trust that the person I love won't do that, but I'm sure there's more than a handful in the world who would cheat on someone like that, risk or not.

The question we need to answer is; looking at all aspects of this, where do we put the boundaries? I'm sure we're going to disagree on some of them, but we should still figure out what works best for all people.

[Kazbadan]

SO, your problem is just diseases? I dont any girlfriend of mine involved with anyone. Of course that she can have friends, speak with them, play with them, etc, etc, but more than that....hmmmm, i dont like

[PeacefulWarrior]

Personally, I view marriage as a sacred bond, or covenant, between a man and a woman that brings spiritual growth and happiness.  It is not something invented.  It is not a socially constructed pact.  Marriage is a vehicle to exalt the soul and bring forth progeny.  God, The Source, has followed a similar pattern in creating all of us, his children.  As we carry on the pattern, we brng more spirits to the planet to allow them the chance to choose good above evil and one again return to the Source to then follow the pattern on a different plane. Adultery, therefore, is a in direct contrast to this plan of happiness and progression.

Take my words at their value.  I know many may disagree with me on this point, and that's fine.  I am not here to argue or persuade, only to share and learn.

[Kazbadan]

I dont believe on God or any  plans that he may have, but i agree with you: no cheating

(unless i went into a kind of "open" relationship...thats ok to me).

[James S]

I agree with Jilola. It is about ownership.
The promises we make are through fear of loosing ownership.

Consider that the concept of adultery that our society uses has only come about since the monotheistic religions exerted their influence through the piscean age. More to the point, male dominant religions that encourage men being the owners and rulers.
How many times did the Bible speak about adultery with reference to the female? It is about ownership.

What provides support for this current view of adultery is a look at the origins of the word.
When the bible said "thou shalt not commit adultery", how could it have been speaking about marital infedelity when the word adultery, which originates from the French word avoutrie, came into being around c. 1300.

The closer meaning is most likely the latin word adultero from which our word adulterate is derived. This word has a completely different meaning, which is "to mix" or "to corrupt". Within the framework of the times, it was referred to more in relation to not mixing races, or "mongrelize".
So the original "thou shalt not commit adultery" should probably read " thou shalt not mix races".

Now I know that there are other passages that aren't nearly as ambiguous, such as "thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife". This I believe fits right in with "thou shalt not steal". You don't go lusting after your neighbours wife because he owns her!

The concept of adultery didn't really exist before the monotheistic religions deemed it offensive. Way back when women had a choice in partners, promises of fidelity were not necessary because they were not afraid of loosing ownership over someone.

The male dominant religions have adulterated all of that!

James.

[Kazbadan]

Good point James.

I would like to add that adultry rules ("do not cheat", etc) are normal because we have aniam insticnts.

With animals the most normal thing is to "possess" females to ensure that they will receive only the DNA of alpha males. Only the best "guys" will have children and ensure the perpetuation of species.

So, dominate a female is a way to gurantee that no other males will make their DNA prevail over the alpha male (or the animal that is having sex with the female).

Its is natural that animals have agressive behaviours, because that will help them to be the only ones to have sex with females.

So, whenin our society we see jealousy and possessive behaviour, thats a normal reaction if we consider the fact that we are animals.

I dont believe in spiritual love or things like that (i mean, between a man and a women...i believe on other kind of love, the one spoken by Budha, Jesus, and so on, but thats different).

If i get in love with somoene, thats just my DNA "saying" to me to have sex with that girl. Getting in love or getting a girlfriend (or a boyfriend) is just a way to ensure that you will have kids (and ther perpetuation of the species stuff, blablbayaddayadda, you know the story).

I believe too that you get in love because you need social contact, but basically is all about sex.

So, i accpet that. I accept that my sexual instincts are something from nature and they came from my animal part (instead of my spiritual part). For that reason i accept that is normal to have jealous and get worried if your girl (or boy, if you are gay or a girl). is getting to much close (emotionally for example) for another guy. Thats is normal.

Now, even being normal, if you want to play this seduction game correctly, you cannot show that you ar e worried/stressed with that problem. You must be confident with yourself, or you will loose her.

Guys that are very jealous and possessive are giving a ticket for cheating. So, if you are jealousy about something, ask yourself if is only your imagination or if is there a rea threat. for example, if your girl is speaking with a guy (in a nigt club) that start a converstaion with her, probably she is just being nice with them (and is obvious what the guy want...). She prefer to be nice instead of kick with them, because she is a nice person to everyone. That doenst mean that she is searching for sex with other guy.

Now, if you react badly to that situation (badly with her, with him or both) the girl will interpret that as a lack of: selfconfindence and confidence on her. And thats bad....you are starting to buying the ticket.

Now, if you are more open and cumpliment the guy or say a joke about the situation (like "Trying to steal my GF"?) she will interpret that on the opposite way.

Of course that some situations demand a different reaction. Seeing your girl kissing another guy...well, the best reaction is to be cold (and end with the relation if both agreed, since the beggining that is a monogamic relation). Personnaly i would contain myself and would teach a lesson to both of them (or just to her).

[MisterJingo]

I disagree with a lot of what Kazbadan has said. I think there is the possibility of greater love in a relationship over that of our biological instincts. The higher brain function gives us the ability to override base instinct (I admit a lot of people don't), and I think a spiritual path is mainly one of following the rarefied abstraction that higher brain function gives.
For example, it is possible to love a partner, sharing ones life together – exploring life together, and through such a loving bond to learn more about oneself. It's like altruism – which is considered by some as one of the greatest qualities of an enlightened being.
Regardless of how the materialistic laws and concepts of marriage or partnering for life came about, I think there is a real possibility for spiritual evolution within the confines of a one on one relationship (of any sex).
A long term relationship teaches and ensure we follow many of the traits which most people aspire to, as see as desirable traits in an evolved human being.
There is also the matter of truly feeling open with a partner. In shorter relationships, or ones of casual sex, there is always a mask, an act which hides our most sensitive, hidden parts. We play a part, rather than being truly open.
Some people here might refute this, but I will say that until one is in a loving long term relationship, one truly doesn't know what it is to be truly open. We might have preconceptions that we are open, or what we believe being open to be, but that is not the same as being open.

Yes we come from beasts, and yes we contain bestial nature – it doesn't mean we have to act on such base desires. Open relationships and one night stands are great, but at some point the average human will become consumed by negativity, jealousy and anger in such situations – which again come from our base instincts.

[Kazbadan]

Maybe you are correct. But life and persons in my life "told" me (with actions, not telling directly if you get my idea) that there is no love. People act in a way that it is not very different from animals, so i will act according to that game too.

The way i act and the way women react shows me that sex is behind everything. Learn the secrets of the game and get the girls u want (even if you are a bastard). Just be very charismatic and inteligent (and in an "ok" body shape).

Observe the world around u. Maybe u can find real love somewhere, but i think this is like a Zoo . You are an animal, and you need to know how to be the alpha male (or "alpha women").

[MisterJingo]

Maybe you are correct. But life and persons in my life "told" me (with actions, not telling directly if you get my idea) that there is no love. People act in a way that it is not very different from animals, so i will act according to that game too.

The way i act and the way women react shows me that sex is behind everything. Learn the secrets of the game and get the girls u want (even if you are a bastard). Just be very charismatic and inteligent (and in an "ok" body shape).

Observe the world around u. Maybe u can find real love somewhere, but i think this is like a Zoo . You are an animal, and you need to know how to be the alpha male (or "alpha women").

If I was a few years younger I might have agreed with you. My experiences with girls had led me to the conclusions you have now. I guess I looked in the wrong places. I used to be into the club scene, and so all the girls I met were from there. Not to stereotype, but they were as materialistic as you could possibly get, no appreciated for anything spiritual. Caught totally in the mundane human world.
In that social circle it was pretty much a zoo. Everything was base desires, and mostly revolved around sex – but not really enjoyable sex, you had to perform or literally be mocked.
After quite a few bad relationships I did give up on the idea of Love.
Now I live with a girl who is near enough my opposite, she's the introvert to my extrovert. Where my past is coloured by drink and drugs, she has never touched drugs and never drinks. Also, I've had to revaluate what my idea of Love is. What I used to think of as Love, I now realise was deep lust and the excitement of a new girl – this always used to be replaced by boredom quickly.
With my current partner – even though the idea worries me on certain levels - I can imagine committing to her for life. Not in a flippant way, but I would be willing to stay with her through the good and bad.
We have been together for 2 years now, and we have never had a proper argument. Not only that, I loved being single. I was rarely in a relationship as I need my own space – sometimes I would be out of contact with friends for weeks at a time because I needed to be on my own.
I have recently graduated from university and am job hunting, this means I have been in close contact proximity to my girlfriend for 3 months or so 24/7. I could never imaging being in such proximity with someone for so long without tearing my hair out. Yet I love it. Just being with her here each day makes me smile.

What I'm getting at is, it is easy to become disillusioned with Love in today's world. But it is possible to find someone who you can love, and who will love you unconditionally – and have a relationship not based on primitive instincts alone.

[Tombo]

Maybe you are correct. But life and persons in my life "told" me (with actions, not telling directly if you get my idea) that there is no love. People act in a way that it is not very different from animals, so i will act according to that game too.

The way i act and the way women react shows me that sex is behind everything. Learn the secrets of the game and get the girls u want (even if you are a bastard). Just be very charismatic and inteligent (and in an "ok" body shape).

Observe the world around u. Maybe u can find real love somewhere, but i think this is like a Zoo . You are an animal, and you need to know how to be the alpha male (or "alpha women").

It may be true that most People act animal-like but they you think the right reaction to that is to act like an animal as well? If everybody thinks like that we will always stay animals. You might have had some bad experiences but let me tell you not all People are alike if you search a honest nice girl you will find. But maybe you don't deserve one! I mean, do you believe in Karma or things like that, to you believe in any way that your actions and thoughts will have consequences?If so think about what you do. Most People that are spiritual interested believe that they should try to overcome thier bad conditions, so if you post here in the Pulse maybe you believe the same. In that case you should think about what you do now, or maybe you will be cheated on in your next Life again?!

[Kazbadan]

Tombo, no one as ever cheated me. I just say the things i say because thats what i observe. U ask if i deserve a nice girl  or not. My answer is yes. I deserve, i deserve a nice girl because i never did anything wrong to anyone, because i take care of myself and try to improve (body and mind and seduction qualities, and my spirit) in order to give the best i can to a person. I want to give something good to a girl. Why shouldnt i deserv a nice girl?


MisterJingo: thanks for your insights, i see myself on your thoughts (for excample, when you say that i get bored from same girl quickly, etc).