have you been forced to believe?

[AndrewTheSinger]

I was out of body about an hour ago and just goofing around in my room. I was listening to some music, very very good music, it seemed one was sung by The Doors ex-vocalist Jim Morrison, others were just gospel, I don't listen to that kind of music but I was enjoying everything. I heard about 3-4 songs, then my hearing became deficient.

There was a stereo playing all the songs from a radio station. I messed with the volume controls and it worked for a while. I had no voice from the start of the experience and it was ok, but I really wanted to hear more stuff so I made a magic to improve my hearing. Now I was really tuned.

Right after I've done that the stereo went off, 'pooof', it wont turn on. I was having a couple of strange experiences before this one, so I had good reasons to think there were 'demons' annoying me (there at least).

I was ticked, I decided I would do the Quevedo (famous skeptic from Brazil), I asked all the demons to come face-to-face with me. "Anything and whatever you are that is trying to get to me, come and I will teach you something", I don't believe in demons or anything like that, so I supposed it was going to be easy

This was silly, I had no voice, my hearing was deficient, my movements were feeble and I was feeling very weak. Anyways, as I opened my room door I found a ninja in black, I gave him a lesson and went outside. I was expecting a legion of monstrous creatures, but that's not what I found.

There was a woman holding a white cat, "I won't be fooled, if you're the second demon then come over here, I have a trick for you". She just smiled, I couldn't get to her, couldn't even move my feet, well, she didn't seem threatening, I just ignored her "If you're not going to attack me we have a deal". Then a white car comes from down the street, running a lot, I stood in front of it "Come demon, try to run over me with your car and I will throw it to the outer space."

He slowed down and stopped the car. Jumped out and smiled, stood next to the woman with the cat. I saw 2 very tiny white rats standing outside his nostrils, "This is a freak, what do you want, what's the problem with you people?", then he said "This what you are doing is upsetting me, you can't stay here now, you've been out long enough, now come with me."

I couldn't argue, I couldn't do anything, I was a zombie, he put me in his car and we went through a tunnel. Now I was seeing it as an outsider. I saw myself in the passenger seat as a small child, and he was saying "You are too rebellious, one day you will have to ... me." I was just thinking "Never, ever, ever..."

The word he said doesn't exist and I just forgot it now, but think he meant something like 'obey' or 'to look up to'.

When I woke up I felt like I've been dead for a while. Part of my inner organs had stopped functioning and my breathing had stopped long before that. I thanked my brothers of light "Thanks for the experience, you all have serious mental problems and a twisted sense of humour".

I like to think that only the good experiences are real, I've seen myself creating monsters to attack me, but on rare occasions like today I have doubts. I mean, what the hell, who's there choosing things for me? I was having a good time, I wouldn't end it like that, someone did. Who? Why? If I were to die then let me choose which way to go. I don't know, it may be nonsense.

My question goes out to the skeptics, the question here is the opposite: Have you ever had doubts that it was NOT your imagination?

[Interesant]

OK this topic scared the excrement out of me

[AndrewTheSinger]

It wasn't scary, the only strange thing is that I really feel like my body will die if I don't come back. I have a surge of great pain in my belly as if it is frying or electrocuting me from the inside. It is so bad that I may be having a very nice experience, and then that sensation grabs me and puts me static in mid air and say 'go back!'.

I'd like to say that it's not like the trance state, some people will experience sleep paralysis and think that they are dying, when they are actually just falling asleep. It happens when I'm already out of body, then I feel like I must return but I just continue doing my stuff, then comes the pain, and I always decide to come back cause it's unbearable.

[BillionNamesofGod]

Well,  if you subscribe to people who say it's all in your imagination - well it's all just a dream!  see below from

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21011&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30

Hi MisterJingo, in my opinion, your position is quite reasonable: you simply would like to obtain solid proof because you are aware of the possibility that your brain could trick you some how and make you believe something is real when is not. Is that correct? Did I understand you correctly?

Some people say they don't need to see any proof because they are already sure, and that's good for them, but many others say they would like to see the proof.

So, let me ask you something: reading those two words taken at random from the dictionary (several times in a role) would be a good enough proof for you, or not? Please, what do you think? Could you comment on that?

Thanks. qbeac.

Hi qbeac,
You are correct. But it is more than the fact that brain can trick a person into believing fallacies though (one only needs to look at false memory syndrome which has been proven to occur through hypnotic regression, and other research where false memories have been implanted in people by simply showing them doctored photographs of their childhood). My need for proof comes from the possibility that mind is the product of brain (which would mean AP is purely brain generated, and the afterlife is wishful thinking). As much as this idea is repulsive, there is still a lot of interesting research which shows how mind function can be attributed to specific areas of brain. If AP is what people claim, then it is one of the best ways to achieve proof that the mind is possibly independent of the brain.
Even people at the forefront of AP like Monroe stated many times that you shouldn't take a belief of what AP is until you have enough evidence to make it a known.
Billion names of God, I have been projecting since earliest childhood. My experiences have been intricate and consistent, yet this is not proof of what people claim AP to be. It shows I am experiencing states which seem to be outside the confines of my body. And during a lot of these projections my mind has been more brilliant and vibrant than in any waking state. I have literally been super aware, and the experience has been more 'real' than waking reality. I am a frequent LD'er so can distinguish between AP and LD. I have seen the 'silver cord' (although it's a faint luminous green to me). I have met gods and devils, been taken to the genesis of creation and the end of the world. I have been placed in a machine which let me perceive the entirety of creation etc. In general, during these experiences I have been shown a lot, but none prove that it is more than brain induced. Each experience starts with me entering trance, inducing the vibrations (which I feel might have something to do with DMT release and trance reduced sensory input increasing its effect), and then 'rolling' out. Usually sight is limited until I get around 6 feet away. I look around; I am in my bedroom as it looks in reality. And then I go explore. If such experiences do not meet the criteria of OBE, then I would say the vast majority of people who have ever projected have not actually OBE'd too.
I also do not believe that OBE is actually outside of the body. The brain cannot distinguish between imagination and sensory input of the 'external' world. Do a google for this information, experiments where people have increased muscle mass over that of a control group by simply visualisations of working out. Also we have to consider that what we see as external reality is actually mind generated. Sensory organs do not emit information; they suck it up into the brain. The brain generates a representation of what it perceives the information to mean (this is a fascinating area in itself, google how little information the eyes can actually perceive, and how much the brain adds to our visual world to 'fill it out'), and we exist within that representation. So anything you ever taste, touch, feel, see, or experience is actually a purely internal experience. We forever interact with a mind generated representation based on sensory information. I see going out of body as moving from one mind generated state (reality) to another (Astral).

I'm not sure what would constitute good enough proof qbeac, most philosophers rule out a solipsism view of realty on the grounds that we cannot truly tell if everything is mind generated or not, so we might as well act as if it isn't, and everyone else we see is actually a sentient being.  I guess proof for me would be to amass some data which holds up to scrutiny of others in the physical. I believe that if the AP state is real, and the energy, energy bodies etc are real too. Then at some point science will be able to detect them. It's easy to take something for ones self, say I believe and that is all that matters. But that is not enough for me. I have a scientific upbringing so perhaps that's where this desire originates

[MisterJingo]

Well,  if you subscribe to people who say it's all in your imagination - well it's all just a dream!  see below from

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21011&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30

And if your view is so narrow to exclude anything which infringes on your belief system, then you might post silly things like this to forums.
What is your point exactly? Because I require higher proof than attributing everything to fairies and angels and elves, I should be mocked and discounted?
Many things occur which are far outside the scope of science - but science will eventually come to understand them.
To date, human history has had a life time based upon belief, superstition and various Gods. Yet until science came along, we had made no great discoveries, lived in no utopian society, and attributed disease to spirits etc. In the few hundred years of science, the world has changed radically. We now have a chance of peace trough education and understanding – rather than the misunderstanding and prejudice of the past. We have slipped the bounds of our home world and are starting to see the underlying energies of creation itself.
So why shouldn't we look to science for explanations of other things too? Just because we can't describe them now, doesn't mean we never will, and if people don't take the first step towards that understanding we will be lost in conflicting beliefs forever. A hundred years ago, even the idea of man setting foot on the Moon was considered absolute fantasy. And what we discover in the next 100, 200 or 300 hundred years is most likely what we consider to be outside of science right now.