Can the astral realm be harmful to our souls in the long run

[timboman]

Hi, I've been trying to have an OBE for the last couple of years.

I was talking on the phone to this gentleman from a missionary Christian  church about healing. Somehow we got on the subject of  Astral Travel/OBE's and the New Age concepts. He told me that he used to be into the New Age and the desire to induce an OBE as well as tarot cards and astrology readings. One night when he was at work and on his coffee break he made an attempt to induce an OBE and when he was close to exiting his body, he heard a voice urging  him to hang himself. Before it was too late he turned his thoughts and prayers to God and became a born again Christian and never delt with New Age stuff again.

He advised me not to astral travel because it would lead me down a path to destruction and that my body could become possessed while I'm out traveling around in my spirit. He also said that he rescued a few others who were doing OBE's and  close to the point of no return.

Then I asked him about spirit guides and departed loved ones in the astral plane and he said that they're not our loved ones and instead what he called 'Familiar Spirits' who were most likely demons in disguise. He also said that they're only two realms ( heaven and hell) and that the realm that OBE's  take place in is not heaven and only disguised like it  in order for Satan  to lure us in and then we would see the true place that it really is. He also said that if one is with major sin after they die, it's too late to ask God for forgiveness, where I like to think that one still can after their passing since only their physical body that they passed from is 'dead'.

He also said that the bible warns us not to communicate with Spirit and the only way to God and heaven is through His son.

Is this guy telling me the truth or most likely his church has very narrow outlook on life since they don't even believe in evolution and he was quoting different verses from the bible regarding spiritualism and OBE's.

I hate to some day pass on and think that I'm going to  these other realms as well hanging out in the earth plane and visiting my surviving friends and relatives, only to black out at time of death and wake up on a judgment day with 500 billion other souls.

Thanks

[MisterJingo]

I think you've answered your own question. His church as a very narrow outlook.
You enter the astral each night when you sleep, yet your body is never possessed while you are away - so if you can't be possessed in a unknowing state, why would you when you have awareness of the situation? (conscious projection).
Regarding the gentleman you were speaking too, he could have had repressed emotions/depressions etc as I can almost guarantee that voice he heard was his own subconscious perhaps during a fear reaction, and so he turned to religion to drown it out (in the long run repression of negative emotions is not a good thing).

I would say if you want to project, just take things slowly and be careful. Trouble can be caused to some by believing everything without scepticism. Have an open mind and don't jump to conclusions.
Astral projection does involve exploring deeper layers of the mind, and as with other disciplines which work on the mind, this can release certain repressed fears/emotions etc. Just trust your own intuition, and don't necessarily take what others who seem to be competent projectors say as fact. We each experience the astral in our own way, through our own unique mind, and belief systems can clopud what we see. - which means we ultimately have to make our own way.

[MisterJingo]

Just to add, there are other threads on this forums where people have discussed astral projection with their church and have recieved very positive responses.
If you do feel at conflict with your religion over this, take things even slower and resolve those issues first. I Say this as such conflict might manifest while projecting, and unless you keep an open mind, you might mistake such self created situations as an external attack etc.

[kenshin]

i think what happend when he astral projected was that he was to some degree a believer of christianity already, and as alot of christians condem astral travel, his fears manifested itself in the form of that voice telling him to hang himself

[NickJW]

He tryed astral projecting once yet he seems to have all this 'knowledge' of what astral projection really is and how it works. That being said I'm not sure why his opinion should matter to you at all, he is so obviously assuming so much (and most christians at least try to be suttle about their assumptions rather than obvious).

[qbeac]

Hi timboman, the subject you have posed is indeed a very important, interesting and delicate one. I am personally very interested in it as well. I don't think we should take this lightly. I don't have much time right now to give a longer reply, but for right now I would like to say I agree 100% with MisterJingo's suggestion:

"If you do feel at conflict with your religion over this, take things even slower and resolve those issues first."

When I first discovered this subject (NDE, OBE, AP a little later, etc.), which was only about 3 or 4 years ago, I also felt totally at shock by the things I was learning (here in the forums, in different web sites, etc.). Actually, without the Internet, I probably could not have learned so many things so quickly.

Due to this situation, I started doing a lot of research concerning this issue: the relation between these types of experiences and the different religious points of view (especially mine, since I am also a Christian), and I have found out a lot of things... For instance, I have been reading the Bible for around 20 years by now, so I have a very good idea of what the Bible says, and I have compared that knowledge to the general message of NDEs. I have also talked about it in depth with people from my church, etc.... I would like to give you a longer reply (Ex: what we have talked about, what they have told me, etc.), but I cannot right now, so we'll leave it pending.

Just some very brief ideas:

If you think about it, there are three logical possibilities:

1) The people who think AP is good for human spiritual development are being influenced by "demons in disguise" (as the gentlemen you know told you).

2) The people who think AP is bad for human spiritual development are being influenced by "demons in disguise".

3) The people who think AP is bad and the people who think AP is good, both are being influenced by "demons in disguise".

Now then, which one is right and which one is wrong? In what percentages and in what things specifically are they right or wrong? And how can we find out?

More questions: why are there so many different religions, and even more, why are there so many denominations based on the Bible, with so many different interpretations of it (big or small)? Are they all right? Are they all wrong? Is there only one right and the rest are wrong?... etc., etc.... in summary, what's happening here?

In order to find out and differentiate right from wrong, we should delve on this topic trying to find the real truth behind this matter. So, that's what I would advise you, and that includes talking to all the experts you may think of (including people from the different religions). In the Internet there are several web sites from the different religions, and it would be very interesting to see what they say and/or know about this topic (NDE, OBE, AP, etc.). I encourage you to talk to them to hear their opinions about it (I have).

For instance, think about it, according to the Bible, in order for a person to become "influenced" by a "demon" (or bad or evil spirit, etc.), you do not need to do Astral Projection. You could become "influenced" by simply having hatred in your heart (or any kind of bad feelings, envy, etc.). You could be doing any regular and normal daily activity and become "influenced by" bad spirits if you choose in that particular moment to hate instead than to love. So, there are probably many people out there who do not AP and who are at risk of being influenced by bad spirits because they do not choose the path of love in their lives. But will that influence include possession?... I am not sure, this point is arguable.

The Bible talks about the specific issue of evil "possession" without mentioning or associating it with AP. That does not exclude the possibility of the relation between AP and possession, but, "it seems to me" (I don't know if I am wrong) that the Bible talks about the influence of evil spirits in very regular daily life circumstances (could that include possession? I am not sure). Two examples:

Mathew 16, 23: when Jesus told Peter: "get away from me, Satan" (that's arguable because it could be a symbolic statement)
Lucas 22, 3: when Judas betrayed Jesus and the Bible says: "and Satan entered Judas' heart." (that one is clearer).

Also, the times the Bible talks specifically about "possession", I think it does not specify how that person become possessed (please, does anybody has any more information about this particular point?).

(Note: see more scriptures bellow)

Again, I am giving you a summary, I hope we can talk about it longer some other time.

For right now, if you have a chance and you feel like it, you may take a look at the following NDEs because they talk about these issues (evil spirits, possessions, purgatory, heaven and hell, the risk of being possessed, etc.):

Howard Storm's NDE
http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

George Ritchie's NDE (this NDE talks specifically about the issue of "possession" by bad spirits)
http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html

Rev. Howard Pittman's NDE (this NDE talks specifically about the issue of humans being influenced all the time by bad spirits)
http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/89.html

Christian Andréason's NDE (this NDE talks about this topic)
http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html

Group NDE Example #2. May, James and Rashad's NDE. (this NDE talks about the different points of view of the different religions)
http://www.near-death.com/group.html

373. Meg A's NDE (this NDE talks about hell and bad feelings)
http://www.nderf.org/meg_a's_nde.htm

145. David H's ECM (this NDE talks about bad feelings, etc.)
http://www.nderf.org/david_h's.htm

Reverend Kenneth Hagin (hell)
http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/90.html

Don Brubaker's NDE (heaven and hell)
http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/92.html

159. Peter R's NDE (our own bad feelings)
http://www.nderf.org/peter_r's_nde.htm

14.  Suicide's ECM (bad feelings, etc.)
http://www.nderf.org/suicide'.htm

... anyhow, there are hundreds/thousands of NDEs, but those ones give an introduction about these topics. You can see many more in these two web sites:

http://www.near-death.com/
http://www.near-death.com/directory.html
http://www.near-death.com/forum.html
http://www.nderf.org/
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF_NDEs.htm

Then, you can check the Bible and see what it says about these topics, for instance (I'll write in Spanish, but I hope it is understandable):

* Lucas 9, 1. * Lucas 11, 14. * Lucas 11, 24-26. * Lucas, 22, 3. * Mateo, 17, 14. * Mateo, 16, 23. * Marcos, 9, 14. * Judas 1, 9. * Marcos, 5, 1-13. * Ephesians, 6, 10. * I Peter, 5, 8-9. * Santiago, 4-7.

Again, this is only a brief summary, I hope we can talk about it some other time.

Take care, qbeac.

[majour ka]

Hi Timboman, as far as im aware none of what your well meaning friend said is true. Im a medium and have seen and spoke to my family and relatives that have passed on and also family and relatives of other people.

I believe that obes are beautiful and safe if they occour naturaly or easely for you. Its my personal view that it not wise to AP if you have to try hard to achieve it. Just as a person using weights in a gym wouldnt lift to many weights with out building up over time, or running a marathon with out training for it gradualy first.

As for many religous people they tend to mean well, but are unfortunatly often narrow minded.
Regards Marcus.

[CFTraveler]

I believe everything you have read here is accurate and correct, I just want to add one thing:
It seems to me that certain denominations of christianity will tell you that their interpretation of the bible is the correct one, and it also seems to me that what underlies the words of the gentleman in question is really:
"If you do this you will have direct experience of something we tell you is not supposed to happen, so we don't want you to find out for yourself, therefore we will try you to stop trying, so you don't find out."
Especially the statement of heaven and hell.  Nowhere it says in the bible that there are only two places, heaven and hell.  The word hell, for example, has multiple meanings in Old Testament and New Testament scripture.  When, in the old testament they speak of hell, they usually use the word Sheol, which means 'death'- a state of nonexistence, sometimes absolute, mostly not. (Jesus, in apocryphal gospels, for example says, upon his return from resurrection that he went to hell and came back. (One example.)  In the New Testament, when Jesus is referring to evil people, he uses the word Gehenna, which was the place where the people dumped their garbage, and burnt it.  The place was so foul with the constant burning of garbage.  He was saying that that's where those people belonged!  There was no mention of eternal damnation, until Revelations, where John the Revelator (no relation to John the Baptist or John the disciple.  John the revelator was in Greece in prison when he wrote it, and in it he describes the "Lake of Fire to end all death."  Now this doesn't sound like eternal punishment to me, more like the end of eternal punishment.  Also, the ancient jews & christians (in the time of Jesus or shortly before)  believed in 'transmigration' of souls.  This is believed to be the same as modern belief in reincarnation, although this is not really true- I'm just illustrating a basic lack of information that many fundamentalist christian (and other religions too) denominations have an appalling lack of information as to how the religion they believe in actually developed.

[timboman]

Thanks, guys  for the advice. I feel more at ease about AP'ing. Those NDE sites are pretty interesting.

[Eloquence]

CFTraveler, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would just like to add one more thing though,

"He also said that the bible warns us not to communicate with Spirit and the only way to God and heaven is through His son. "

Yes, the Bible does say this, but it also does say to seek out the Holy Spirit....  am I seeing a contradiction here? I guess it comes down to your interpretation of it. Which is one of the reasons there is so much variation in beliefs. People interpret things differently. But I guess my point is that dont just allow yourself to  be constrained by the narrow minded views of one person, heck, I know of a pastor in my local area who recently condemned The Chronicles Of Narnia and ordered everyone in his church to burn any copies they have of it. But rather, come to your own conclusions.