Astral or not

[cobalt]

First of all, i havnt projected..yet so i dont know how its either, but as i understand from what i read its one of those things you cant miss..like some say you will know when youre in love, if you doubt youre not..
..thing that can cause confusion is if you project from so sleepy state that your projection mixes with dream..since you "project" that way every night it cant be called a real projection..or its so dizzy after all that you cant tell if youre projected or not?

[jalef]

the problem is the altered state of consciousness. it is just different and i think most poeople expect to much (like i also did): they expect to be at full waking consciousness while they are out of body. because it isnt like that they question they experiences. also there is the habit of being sceptical (at least this is true for me). i wouldnt say that this is bad because what use would it be if everybody would believe everithing...

[cobalt]

but i guess it shouldnt be like: whou i *think* im out..aproaching wall..hmm why there is cloud on wall..stay focused youre not dreaaming..ohh what a nice lake lets see why im under water inside bath in wood..somewhere..(waking up) damn i was just dreaming
whare is the limit/border what counts conscious whan unconscious..
on the other hand sometimes while "awake" i confuse things..like i look at people but in my mind they are preceived as pencils/or equations(very rare but happens)

[Leilah]

Cobalt, to answer your original question I'm going to have to say, judging from my most recent experience, that it is one of those things you can miss. Usually when I'm non-physical, everything is super-real. Like, when I wake up I know 100% that it took place. However this morning I got a taste of what it's like not to be so sure.

Started off by a short meditation. I must have dozed off because I began dreaming about lying in my bed, talking on the phone with my friends about a dream I had with them earlier in the night. Their voices started to fade and I started to feel disoriented. Then, I was plunged into the 3-D Blackness. From there, the vibes picked up and I tried focusing past them like I would usually do. This time it was somewhat harder and I found myself having trouble staying in the void. I kept being pulled back to the physical in which I was experiencing the strong vibrations. At this point, I was pretty much fully physical (I could feel my bed sheets and was consciously regulating my breathing). It was kind of like having your foot stuck in one reality with your other foot in another.

Anyway, the vibes died down and I must have gone through.. dual awareness or something. It was as if a part of me was floating around going through my bedroom wall, while the other me (the "main me") was lying on my bed thinking if I should open my eyes or not. I decided to just end the situation by sitting up in bed. I began to question the reality of the experience. I thought about how unreal it was for the other me to be floating around. It just seemed like it was a part of my imagination and never took place.

My point is that I now can understand why some people wonder whether or not they were really "OOB" or not. Sometimes they're just not as real as other experiences.

[GroovyGoddess]

Having a vivid projection experience is definitely not something that you're likely to forget. However, it has been very difficult for me to achieve one sitting in a chair from the waking state. I find that I can't attain the necessary state of relaxation unless I am actually lying down in my bed and nearly asleep. But, if I have already slept at least 5-6 hours, my mind instinctively knows to project and I regain consciousness right when I'm separating.

But yea, the first time I projected it was just a partial projection from the waking state. I got all the typical exit symptoms and it was quite rough. I felt like I was going to vibrate apart in my chair. I got really upset because my heart was racing and I couldn't catch my breath. I know that to achieve something like this again and actually succeed I'm going to have to work a lot harder. Yet, I'm not really in any hurry to be successful. My health hasn't been good lately, so thats top priority right now. The OBE's can wait...

[WarpedReality]

Yeah I can see why people doubt if they projected (I sometimes do). Once you are touring the RTZ, it feels SUPER real. However, once we are focused back in the physical, we try to analyze it and it gets muddled. I can't explain it, but thinking about the experience with our brains makes the OBE seem distorted, choppy, and slightly dream like.

And some of the absurd reality fluctuations that occur in the RTZ can also make one doubt the experience. One example is I decided to visit my aging orange cat. However, when I actually viewed her in the RTZ, she appeared a healthy gray cat with a beautiful coat (probably what my subconscious desired...?)

[David Warner]

Cobalt,

You raise a good question about the question if its real or not. If it wasn't real, then we wouldn't be here discussing this, nor this board would exist. Science, Occult, Medical views wouldn't be falling over each other to debate the existence of the oobe and life after death. So again, it comes down to is it real to you?

After projecting thousands of times over the last 19yrs, I still question the validity of the experience. It is healthy and the physical brain is always the one who steps in to rationalize. I think what has REALLY helped me is keeping tracking of statistics, validations, experiences, journals. For this last year now, I've had 9 validations that were real, controlled and not uncontrolled and authentic. Just in this last year I've had over 79 OBE's and the highest percentage comes from the waking state just within 10-15mins of falling to sleep, not mixed within the dream.

Another great example is that lucid dreams I have a tough time remembering when I awaken into that awareness. If I project from the waking state, I can recall every specific detail from start to end. What was misplaced, looked different, location, colors, textures, people, animals, night/day, detailed specifics all down to the atom.

I think if you really do the work and give 1000% of your energy, you will be the only one to determine if its real or not.

Hope this dispels some mystery and helps!
Tvos

[jub jub]

When it happens, you'll know it. My first experience was so real I still remember every vivid detail. When I dream, I can't recall what happened a week later.

[Mandrivnyk]

When it happens, you'll know it. My first experience was so real I still remember every vivid detail. When I dream, I can't recall what happened a week later.

It's more real than a lucid dream?

[jalef]

much more!

[David Warner]

wait until you look back and see your physical body asleep or when you look back at the earth - thats when you have to decide if its real or not..:)

tvos

[izalco]

wait until you look back and see your physical body asleep or when you look back at the earth - thats when you have to decide if its real or not..

tvos

I been out of body a couple of times, and NEVER seen my body in my bed

[CFTraveler]

The first time I turned around and looked, it was very exciting.  Now it's lost it's magic- like everything in life.  I actually don't like seeing myself from a vantage point- It's kinda creepy.

[David Warner]

seeing yourself is just another level of reality that drives the validity home. i've even gone far enough to touch my face, hair, arms, legs, nose, chin and felt duality during those experiments.

tvos

[MisterJingo]

A lot of my projections have a lucidity which feels 'sleepy'. Such as when i'm about to jump through the window to go flying, I stop and question if I'm really awake but not fully woken-up yet (not wanting to jump through the window by accident). So I guess the experience is realy enough for me to question if I'm really awake, but my mind can feel a bit sleepy.
Other occasions the lucidity is simply stunning - i'm yet to experience such lucidity and presence of mind even in reality. Its like the dial on my my mind in cranked up a thousand-fold - and everything looks so - alive.

[Leilah]

wait until you look back and see your physical body asleep or when you look back at the earth - thats when you have to decide if its real or not..

tvos

For some reason, I never see my body once I'm "out". The only thing I've seen before was a dark cloud over my bed. But no body. Maybe its because I don't care to look? It'd probably shock me or something.  

[CFTraveler]

A lot of my projections have a lucidity which feels 'sleepy'. Such as when i'm about to jump through the window to go flying, I stop and question if I'm really awake but not fully woken-up yet (not wanting to jump through the window by accident). So I guess the experience is realy enough for me to question if I'm really awake, but my mind can feel a bit sleepy.
Other occasions the lucidity is simply stunning - i'm yet to experience such lucidity and presence of mind even in reality. Its like the dial on my my mind in cranked up a thousand-fold - and everything looks so - alive.

I haven't felt lucid like that in months.  Any advice?

[MisterJingo]

A lot of my projections have a lucidity which feels 'sleepy'. Such as when i'm about to jump through the window to go flying, I stop and question if I'm really awake but not fully woken-up yet (not wanting to jump through the window by accident). So I guess the experience is realy enough for me to question if I'm really awake, but my mind can feel a bit sleepy.
Other occasions the lucidity is simply stunning - i'm yet to experience such lucidity and presence of mind even in reality. Its like the dial on my my mind in cranked up a thousand-fold - and everything looks so - alive.

I haven't felt lucid like that in months.  Any advice?

If i'm honest, such lucidity seems to be completely random - I haven't yet noticed any common element in times when I do achieve it. Such as I've projected one night with pretty 'muddy' lucidity, and the next with overpowering lucidity.