OBE? or just strange dreams

[HD]

Hello all....
Ive searched around here on and off for a few years. Ive finally decided to ask a question. You see, im always a bit skeptical, yet i try to keep an open mind. I would like to share a few experiences with you and get your take on them.
Ive had an episode or 2 which could be OBE's or they could just be strange dreams... im having trouble drawing a line between the 2.

heres a little background
I have Never had a willed OBE, I have had quite a few lucid dreams. Most of the time i end up losing awareness and fall back into the dream. or the dream "ends" and i end up in another one without awareness..
I can never get anything done in the Lucid dream because shortly after becoming aware, im either too excited and the dream ends, or as i said before i end up in another dream without awareness...

I generally have good dream recall, if i talk out or write down keywords i can remember dreams in good detail.

I have spent time dabbling in Western Occultism (ive never gotten past LBRP and some Tarot Meditation)
My biggest problem is lack of will... i have never fully Incorporated the routine into my life, something or the other always gets in the way, and eventually the entries in my journal stop.

Anyways, on to the experiences...
i will start with the one major one, i cannot tell if this is just a dream or the real thing.
I was in the process of reading Astral Dynamics when it happened.
I was visiting friends in Utah, and staying in a guest room. I fell asleep on the couch, but was woken by a urge to urinate. I "sat up", and started to head to the bathroom, i got about 3 or 4 feet away when i suddenly lost the ability to move forward, i just "fell" to the ground. I tried to get up, but i was only able to spin around in circles. the odd thing is, my vision was as if i was directly on the floor, (if i actually fell to the floor my vision would be a few inches above the floor, this was like my eyeballs were actually on the floor). oh, and speaking of vision, i was able to see without glasses, normally i am quite blind without them
I spun around for a short while, and finally woke up in my body.
during the dream/projection i dont recall seeing my body sleeping, or my projected body... but then again, i was not looking for them... i thought i was getting up to go pee.... and i normally dont check if my body is there when i get up to pee

Now, i am very impressionable when i sleep... If i sleep with the TV on, 80% of the time whatever is on the TV invades my dreams. This can be quite scary if the news is one while i am sleeping, i recall having a dream about a man hitting people on the head with a brick. I woke up thinking "wow, what a crazy dream" only to find out that it was REALITY!
not a crazy dream, a crazy world

anyways, i was reading astral dynamics at the time, so perhaps the reading sparked this sort of dream?

My other strange sleep disturbance happened at work. This one was much more "real".
I have a job where i can sleep, but its sort of frowned upon. I try not to be asleep when the next crew comes on.
anyways i was on the brink of sleep, i knew the next crew would be coming on soon so i was trying to stay alert and listen for them. I kept hearing them moving around downstairs, then realize i was dreaming.
I probably fell asleep and woke up 3 or 4 times in a 10min time span. during this span i had a bout of sleep paralysis. I was disturbed by it, because i thought i heard someone coming upstairs, i was finally able to move my arm to grab my glasses and act like i was awake, but no one was there.
So i went back to "sleep"and had ANOTHER bout of paralysis... but this time it was very different, this time a voice spoke to me, a very dark sinister voice yelled at me, it either said "GET UP" or "GET OUT"... either way i was really freaked out...
The voice sounded like it was RIGHT NEXT TO MY EAR
i remembered the part about scary voices before projection, so i was able to compose myself, and rather than fight it, i knew i could just fall asleep and it would be over.....

the paralysis and the voice happened quite recently, i haven't read astral dynamics in years, so i cant chalk it up to "suggestion". and i certainly did not feel like i was dreaming it, i was very alert, awake, and paralyzed....

So what do you all think, do these sound common? or am i just dreaming things?

Ive talked to a few people about this, and no one has ever had anything like this happen to them, but they also dont remember much of their dreams.....

-HD

[HD]

excellent.....
thanks for the input, excellent forum

[MisterJingo]

excellent.....
thanks for the input, excellent forum

Hi HD,

I didn't see this when you originally posted. Speaking from my own experience, I have heard many noises and seen things during sleep paralysis which seemed to me at the time to be as real as anything I have experienced in reality.
Such examples are having 'beings' screaming in my ear (which sounded like it was outside my head and into my right ear), having family members bang into the room and stamp about, I can't move, but if I force eyes open I see them as they come and go past. I've had strange people stand at the bottom of my bed just watching, shouting, or laughing loudly. I've had beings on my bed, and also I've 'conversed' with some of them. An example is when I woke in a paralysis state, managed to open my eyes and saw a man and woman lying on a bed next to mine. The woman was ill and the man was caring for her. He had a chalkboard and was communicating with me by writing on it (he told me the woman had cancer etc).
Other similar examples are when I force my eyes open, and my room looks different or everything is twisting and distorting in strobing colours.

I've always taken these as hypnogogic/hypnopompic scenarios given greater realism due to the paralysis state (being on the border between dreaming and reality), as I have had no reason to given them a reality greater than that.

[HD]

heh, i was just being silly with my last post....

anyways, ive had another episode with a strange menacing dark figure standing right next to me while paralized....

this is starting to become more common for me...
it used to be once every few years, now its once every few months...

they dont bother me anymore, i realise that its just part of the territory...

but what seperates an OBE from a dream?

-HD

[MisterJingo]

heh, i was just being silly with my last post....

anyways, ive had another episode with a strange menacing dark figure standing right next to me while paralized....

this is starting to become more common for me...
it used to be once every few years, now its once every few months...

they dont bother me anymore, i realise that its just part of the territory...

but what seperates an OBE from a dream?

-HD

This is a difficult question to answer. I'd say one of the main pointers is the degree of lucidity and control experienced in this state. In an OBE I have my waking day faculties, and I can reason and seemingly have 'free will'. This separates it from a dream in the strictest sense, as dreams are usually followed unquestioningly, and usually bizarre events are not questioned.
But the act of free will alone doesn't mean the OBE state is not created and experienced internally. This is why I and a lot of others look for some form of proof that the OBE state is more than a 'waking dream'. I've experienced some things which suggest it is more, but as yet, nothing which is conclusive in an objective sense.


Ps. I have noticed that a lot of these figures appear to be menacing during sleep paralysis, and I have a feeling that fear generated through the paralysis state alters our perceptions of what actually is happening. When I enter an hypnogogic scenario, there rarely are any 'bad beings'. Yet they can be frequent when I experience hypnogogic situations during paralysis.

[HD]

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

recently, during paralysis, i have heard sounds, things moving around in the room... but i no longer fear them, and as such, their nature has changed from evil voices and dark figures, to just "noise".

I know its a difficult question, but in terms of "free will" what seperates an OBE from a lucid dream??

[MisterJingo]

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

recently, during paralysis, i have heard sounds, things moving around in the room... but i no longer fear them, and as such, their nature has changed from evil voices and dark figures, to just "noise".

I know its a difficult question, but in terms of "free will" what seperates an OBE from a lucid dream??

The simplest answer is: Your definition of what constitutes an LD and an OBE .
You can read many books by 'gurus' who impose structures and beliefs on all these experiences – such as LDs being a form of OBE, OBE being in the RTZ and AP being on the 'astral proper' etc – but to be honest, these gurus hold no greater truth than us. These constructs are just belief structures too. Is LD a form of OBE? Who knows?
My opinion of what APs, LDs and OBEs are is changing quite radically (i've been dropping a lot of unfounded dogma over the past few years). I'll perhaps write something up about it soon.

[CFTraveler]

MJ wrote:

Ps. I have noticed that a lot of these figures appear to be menacing during sleep paralysis, and I have a feeling that fear generated through the paralysis state alters our perceptions of what actually is happening. When I enter an hypnogogic scenario, there rarely are any 'bad beings'. Yet they can be frequent when I experience hypnogogic situations during paralysis.

I have noticed the same.  When I get waking paralysis w/lurker, usually the lurker has glowy red eyes.  I've read somewhere that this is a fairly common scenario.  Any ideas about why the glowy red eyes? Some sort of archetype?
and,

HD wrote:

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

Then a lot of us, if not all of us have the same flaw. For whatever comfort that may give you.

[HD]

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

recently, during paralysis, i have heard sounds, things moving around in the room... but i no longer fear them, and as such, their nature has changed from evil voices and dark figures, to just "noise".

I know its a difficult question, but in terms of "free will" what seperates an OBE from a lucid dream??

The simplest answer is: Your definition of what constitutes an LD and an OBE .
You can read many books by 'gurus' who impose structures and beliefs on all these experiences – such as LDs being a form of OBE, OBE being in the RTZ and AP being on the 'astral proper' etc – but to be honest, these gurus hold no greater truth than us. These constructs are just belief structures too. Is LD a form of OBE? Who knows?
My opinion of what APs, LDs and OBEs are is changing quite radically (i've been dropping a lot of unfounded dogma over the past few years). I'll perhaps write something up about it soon.

perhaps some of these structures that have been imposed can be of use.
if a system has been created and used by many many people over many many years, perhaps it grows in power....
some of this information may have been unlocked by those with greater skill and greater knowlege, and can be used by us...
if the groundwork has been layed, why not use it? im talking about things like buddhism, yoga, western occultism, and the like.... these systems have been around for several hundred to thousands of years.... they also seem to overlap perfectly in certain areas (think middle pillar, and chakras)
i cant help but to belive that certain symbols gain power as they are used... perhaps they are dredged up from our subconcious...
i dunno....
i know nothing...



-HD