Near Death Experiences & Out of Body Experiences

[David Warner]

Ap Friends,

Every so often, I visit the NDE web site and is incredible compelling evidence and validations.  http://www.near-death.com/

There is a forum within the site for NDE's and is interesting to read people's experiences.

What I like is that the web-master Kevin Williams has gone above and beyond to bring us this information along with the free E-Book "Nothing Better Than Death".

http://www.near-death.com/nothing_better_than_death.html

Take the time to visit and explore the site and also check out his book too!

Tvos

[mactombs]

As compelling as NDEs are, I think they're the exception experience rather than the rule.

I have personal experience with the NDE. What was it like? Perfect nothing, not even memory. The atheist's death.

I have to doubt that OBEs and NDEs are good evidence for life after death. I think it's impossible to know until you're dead (in which case, you might never know anything again). It is possible validations are either mis-reported, or memories changed to fit facts, or simply a function of some power of ESP that only lasts as long as the brain.

[David Warner]

Mactombs,

How long was your NDE and what happened? I was talking with a friend who was hit by a car and in a coma for a week and he mentioned nothing about it or having memory.

You are right about proving if  life after death exists and is good to keep open minded. But as the evidence, facts mount and weigh in with story, experience, validations its pretty compelling evidence. I don't know what happened with your NDE and am glad that you are around to talk about it.

In this last year, I've been tracking validations and to date I've had roughly 15 concrete validity experiences. This last Sunday I had two validations and yesterday one. Please remember that when I first tried started pursuing this, it was only based on the playing card experiment, but the uniqueness of it that these experiences presented them shelves in a different manner (outside the playing card experiment).

Validation Stats
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21918&highlight=validation

(Present) Re-Union of Souls - Validation
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23276

I think the most impact full validation is when I am in the trance state, my wife opens the door to the bedroom, looks down at me, gets into bed and then I awaken to the physical with the whole scene repeating itself. This has happened three times this last year. Its not fluke and is precognitive trance experience.

Tvos

[jub jub]

Interesting subject. I visit Kevin's web site quite frequently and enjoy reading the NDE reports. As to whether or not they're real, I guess we won't know for sure until that big day.

I had a teenage daughter that was killed in a car accident at the age of 19 and immediately after her death, supernatural events occurred that could have only been my daughter reaching out to her mother and I to let us know she was okay!

My daughter's death started me on my journey to learn more about OBE/NDE phenomena with my ultimate goal to be able to contact her in the Astral. I understand from reports I've read, it is possible

Anyway, I agree. Kevin Williams is to be commended on his excellent web site. I'm sure it has brought much comfort to those that have had loved ones pass.

[David Warner]

Jub Jub,

I am very sorry to hear about this and will pray for your family!

How long have you been trying to project and have the obe? Have you been able to make any contact with your daughter who passed? You mentioned about your daughter reaching out with supernatural events. Would it be okay for you to share that information?

I am a firm believer and with the experience I've had there is no doubt contact is accessible. My uncle and grandma passed on quite some time ago and I was able to make contact. Please visit the link below for the read.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23276

As for Kevin Williams, I really do like the site and the research that he has undergone. Its hard to be a skeptic when one projects and is able experience events first hand. So I do know where these people are coming from.

Tvos

[jub jub]

Tvos, first of all, thanks for your prayers. It's been 5 years since the accident so my wife have had time to come to terms with the tragedy.

I haven't been trying that long to project to my daughter. I am currently reading a book that outlines some experiences of others so it has motivated me to give it a try.

I don't mind sharing what happened. Some of the things are pretty remarkable and I wouldn't have believed them myself had I not been a witness to it.

Here's the story...


My daughter was killed in a car accident in March of 2001 and she was 9 months pregnant at the time. It was two days after my daughter's death, my wife and I were sitting at the kitchen table and my wife just started crying uncontrollably. We noticed a "tap...tap...tap" noise coming from the laundry room directly behind us. We both got up to see what the source of this mysterious noise was. What we discovered gave us goose bumps! A plant sprayer that was sitting on a shelf was dripping water from the nozzle on to a paper bag filled with plastic shopping bags. What makes this so unusual is the sprayer had not been used in quite some time and was dry inside, plus the tip was angled up approximately at a 30-degree angle so any water inside would have had to travel up the wand to the tip. Metaphorically speaking, it was as if the sprayer was shedding tears along with my wife. We felt this was our daughter's way of crying tears to let us know that her spirit was still alive.

Our second experience involved our two-year-old grandson who we were watching at the time of my daughter's death. On several occasions, the look on my grandson's face would change or morph and take on the appearance of my daughter! This was very strange and spooky occurrence. My wife noticed it as well as my other daughter. My grandson also told my wife one morning that his mommy came to visit him at night and he would say "Mommy is OK and mommy is in Heaven." Our grandson was two at the time and he conveyed this in perfect adult annunciation!

Our third and last experience might or might not be related. I guess this occurred about a year after my daughter's death. We had a wreath type flower arrangement hanging in the guest bathroom that my daughter had picked out. One day my wife discovered that the tip of one of the vines was dripping what appeared to be blood. It did this for a whole day before it stopped. I don't know if this meant anything or not but it sure was strange. That was the first and last time anything came out of the wreath.

Besides my daughter, my father passed away in November of 2000 and he came to visit me in a lucid dream. He appeared to be about 30 years old and he was dressed like a priest (my parents were Catholic). He didn't speak but smiled at me and conveyed his love telepathically! I woke up crying because the experience was so vivid!


BTW, Tvos, thanks for the link about your grandma, aunt and uncle. You are a talented writer and it makes for an interesting read!

[Selski]

Hi jub jub

Thank you for sharing the story of your daughter.  You've had some very interesting occurences which strike me as "something more, hopefully from the other side".

It's very brave of you to share your experience.  5 years ago is not that long to lose someone so close.  I am pleased to hear that you and your wife are coping together - I think it's very important to go through something as "big" as that as a couple and not lose touch with each other in the meantime.

He appeared to be about 30 years old and he was dressed like a priest (my parents were Catholic). He didn't speak but smiled at me and conveyed his love telepathically! I woke up crying because the experience was so vivid!

This is something I can relate to totally.  All of the people I know in reality (whether passed on or not) are younger, fitter and more attractive in my lucid dreams.  The experience is vivid and I even have the mind to wonder how they look so good!  

It's an absolute given and pattern in my lucid dreams, and I'd love to know whether it's the same for others.

Sarah

[Vilkate]

Soon after my Grandfather's death he came to me and took me to a place he said he would be living  now. It was a very vivid dream. He lead me through the dark tunnel, and, on the other side, there was a meadow, with an old country house in the distance by a forest. Then, I stayed on the edge of the tunnel, while he went further, and, as he went , he became younger and younger, so, when he had reached the house, he was a young boy. Then, his parents appeared, young and healthy. They all turned to me, smiled and waved goodbyes, looking very happy. Suddenly, a loud voice banged into my ear, saying - It's not your time yet! - and then I as awake.

[David Warner]

Jub Jub,

Normally, when I voice narrate my journals to mp3 I'm not that detailed or seem organized. This one for the records I just could not deny breezing thru and really needed to be organized and structured. I've had many experiences on the other side, but as I said in the notes (its climb ling the charts).

Again, we appreciate you sharing your story and the experiences you talked about it I think you and your wife made contact. Between the morphing of the facial expression or the the water dripping. There is a definite symbolic evidence there. Its one thing for 1 person to witness, but with two or more - that's a powerful element.


Selski,

I agree with you about people who've past from physical to astral. They definitely hold their shape and form of a younger, lively youth. My grandma was thin and not too over-weight and along with my uncle in good shape and form. I've seen this in other projections briefly with friends, relatives who've past - so there's definite consistency.

Tvos

[jub jub]

BTW, the book that I'm currently reading is "The Secret of the Soul" by William Buhlman. I had to wait until I got home from work to look it up. All the Astral books seem to have similar titles! lol

So far I'm really enjoying the book. The author quotes many OBE's submitted by various individuals that almost resemble NDE's. It's easy to get caught up in the experiences!

Monroe mentions the "Higher Planes" which sound very similar to what people describe in their NDE's, traveling through various colors, seeing bright lights, feelings of love and total peace and harmony! These realms are not so easy to achieve but possible with practice and determination!

Have you noticed they have an OBE section on the NDE forum? Doesn't get much traffic though.  

[David Warner]

jub jub,

I didn't realize that had a obe forum on the nde web site. Might have to check it out. I've been meaning to get with Kevin Williams to add my link to my site and a few obe experiences to support his cause and help others. - See what happens from there!

Have not yet read any of Williams books, maybe one day.

Tvos

[jub jub]

Another excellent web site with lots of NDE information is...

http://www.nderf.org/

Not as well organized as Williams' web site but a lot of good reading!

[mactombs]

Tvos, it happened in April. I attempted suicide. There really isn't more to say other than there was nothing, not even memory. If you can imagine a black hole in your life, that's pretty close.

Just this week one of my friends committed suicide. I guess death is on my mind lately. I don't care for sympathy, I just want to know. Not believe. I want to know that all the hell and misery everyone goes through isn't worthless.

It seems like entropy applies to everything - all the good things in life wither and die.

I guess I'm coming off negatively. Actually, since then I've learned that people do indeed make their own realities. I never would have figured out what that meant before. Anyway, as much as I'm intrigued or inspired by other people's validations, it just isn't the same as experiencing them, not even close.

As much as I like to believe in the afterlife, for me, there's just something missing.

[David Warner]

Mactombs,

What does your nick represent and stand for? I always wondered!

When you attempted suicide, how long were you out, were you rushed to the hospital, or did you just wake up at your location? Do  you mind sharing specifics?

You say that you "just want to know" if there's a after-life. I would like to help you and with the assistance of others on this board too. Have you ever been able to project, experience the obe, and validate?

I started projecting back in 1987 and I tell ya its been hard uphill battle of work, confusion, beauty, love, trial and error. But I keep digging deeper always wanting to know more and to go the distance. I know that you understand, but the obe isn't handed out on a silver platter and a welcome sign is posted. As much that I would like it to be that way, its a mystery.

My honest reply to you, start tracking your experiences with the obe's in a excel spreadsheet. Along with validations and I think you will find your answer if its real or not. In one years time now, I've had 15 validations - it would be something if it was 1 or 2, but 15! -

Two books I will highly recommend for you to read if you can find the time. Anne Varnes - creating your reality  and  Kevin Williams nothing better than death. I have the ebooks if you are interested, these were offered free from the author.

I know that I can preach to the choir about my experiences, validations, journals its not the same as you said about experiencing them. What would it take for you to believe?

You are following the right path because you are still here! I've read many of your posts and learned a lot from you and would miss you if decided otherwise. If you want to talk with me, please send me a prv msg so we can discuss this further.

Tvos

[jub jub]

mactombs, sent you a PM.

[mactombs]

Thank you Tvos and jub jub, I really appreciate it. I'm stable now (they wouldn't have let me out if I hadn't been)   . At the same time, after this experience, I felt like I had come back to someone else's life. I was in the hospital for a week (and lucky to get out that soon) ... when I got out, just driving felt like I hadn't done it in years. I learned a great deal in that time frame, though, a lot more than I can expound on right now.

You know what's eerie, that book you mention Tvos is very similar to the book everyone in the hospital was encouraged to read, called Reinventing Your Life.

Tvos, I will send you a PM about specifics, since you asked.

It's just hard for me to find NDEs and OBEs as convincing, since I know how enormously simple chemicals can drastically change your outlook on life. The brain is so complex, it's hard to fathom what is generated by it, and what is outside.

[jub jub]

I know some people don't experience an NDE when they die. Could be because they don't remember or maybe they weren't really dead.

I've had to have surgery on numerous occasions and I never experienced an NDE. I would think that the anesthesiologist takes you to the point of near death. Some have reported an NDE while under but I never have. I still believe in NDE's though.

Wouldn't it be weird if some people just cease to exist after they die and others go on to a better place!

[David Warner]

I think that everyone experiences the OBE / NDE differently. In the NDE, most of the people report the blackness as Mactombs expressed, but eventually going thru the tunnel and then opening up with love and beauty. Maybe Mactombs wasn't at that stage just yet and was in a sleep with no memory being in the hospital with what drugs pumping thru this veins helping him.

I don't doubt that people who've had the NDE made it to the other side. The strongest cases that I've been listening to on the NDE's were the ones where the person was dead for 2-3 days, in the morgue and the autopsy was ready to be performed. The patient gets up and starts yelling about the pain of the incision. Another experience was a guy who was in South America and this was the time of some plague. He couldn't leave the area and grew seriously sick and dead. His body was infested with maggots eating his flesh and when he returned days later they rushed him to the hospital.

Those stories w/o a doubt are profound and are some strong evidence of the survival after death. But as Mactombs stated, its material to read, intriguing, but one has to experience it first hand. Not that I ever want to go down that road with a NDE.

Maybe the people that cease to exist are the one's stuck inbetween and just have to call out to God for his love to be in that better place. I've also read about those NDEs as well too.

I know that i'm changing subjects here and bounced back to validations..but may help you out and think. To me, this is interesting, starting to really hit home with what has happened this last week.

5/21 - Two validations - Grandma's Gift, Grandma's aura, and consistency
with my Uncle Paul and Grandma appearance. Confirmed by my sister and Aunt.

5/24 - Was in a obe, outside, raining at mom/dads house - Later that night, it rained at mom/dads in the physical confirmed.

5/27 - Took my car to my local mechanic for freon for the AC. Dreamt this
morning the mechanic talking to me saying there would be a little extra more work to be done. - Awakened to physical, called him over the phone and he said the exact same thing about the car as he said in the dream.

I can tell you exactly that these validations are straight on the money. Not like I'm wanting, or looking deep for correlations between waking and sleep validations. No beating around the bush, its dead on. This is my record dates of validations for the last year.

07/14/05 08/11/05 08/11/05 09/18/05
09/27/05 12/04/05 12/30/05 01/04/06
01/20/06 02/28/06 03/02/06 04/27/06
04/30/06 05/21/06 05/24/06 05/27/06

I would dismiss if it was a few as coincidence, but 16 and four in one week.

Tvos

[Selski]

Wouldn't it be weird if some people just cease to exist after they die and others go on to a better place!

I had this thought just the other day.  We do tend to make sweeping assumptions that if there is an afterlife, we ALL will go there.

Perhaps some of us do "turn to dust" and cease to be.  Who says it's one rule for all?

Fascinating thought.

Sarah

[jub jub]

Maybe the people that cease to exist are the one's stuck inbetween and just have to call out to God for his love to be in that better place. I've also read about those NDEs as well too.

I've read cases of those that die and are in the void. But, they realize they're in the void so their consciousness is still active. What about people like mactombs that experience nothing? If there is a nothing then I guess one has to ask the question, What happened to his consciousness during his death? Did he just loose lucidity or was he momentarily blanked from existence, only to be brought back by a higher power? Consciousness should continue uninterrupted unless one is not really "dead" but unconscious. At least in my understanding of it.

The more I think about it, the more I'm under the impression that for the people that die and don't recall an NDE, they are perhaps unconscious or they don't remember.


Selski, every now and then I have a complete thought! It's rare so I have to capture the moment! lol

Tvos, I would say your validations are pretty much proof positive of life after death. Isn't it funny though that even with validation, we're still skeptics? At least I am.

[David Warner]

jub jub,

I hear ya - the validations are incredible and this is why I'm tracking all the events that come my way. This will cut through the questions of wonder and doubt if this is in a controlled environment.

I understand about being a skeptic, but when it happens and the experience is there first hand, kinda hard turning your back on it. I could preach to the choir all day long about it, but its the person that has to go out and do the work, study, patience and give. There's no free lunches with the astral or really, anything in life.. The more time and work you put into it, results will slowly start to show.

Tvos

[SS_Patrick]

NDEs can offer very good evidence of afterlife, but in my opinion research on reincarnation is even better. Reincarnation cases can't be caused by brain chemistry etc, which is common scientific theory for NDEs. Also, one can always argue that people who had NDEs weren't really dead. Personally I have heard that argument many times when I have discussed with people about these things. But on reincarnation cases, previous personality has died before research subjects birth and thus there is not that disadvantage.

In my opinion these books by Dr. Ian Stevenson contain the strongest evidence available of life after death:

Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation (this is a good book to start with this subject)

Reincarnation and Biology (volume 1)
Reincarnation and Biology (volume 2)

These books contain so much evidence, that even the most close minded materialist couldn't deny it. And when we add other evidence (OBEs, NDEs etc.), it would be stupid to ignore such an amount of strong evidence.

[El-Bortukali]

man.that just discouraged me.

[Greytraveller]

To tvos
Keep on preaching to the choir man 'cause that's the stuff we like to hear :exclamation:  :exclamation:  :exclamation:
I agree with you that NDEs/OBEs do confirm the survival of physical death.

to Mactombs  
Have you experienced an OBE :question:
A truly profound OBE would leave you with little or no doubt about the issue. Consciousness can separate from the physical body and survive indefinately. If you have not yet had an OBE I truly hope that you do experience one in the near future.

re NDERF
This is also a great site and well worth taking a look at. Drs Jeffrey and Jodie Long have posted over 850 NDE accounts. Jeffrey Long is a frequent visitor on the Coast to Coast radio show. They also have a forum for NDEs and a companion website, OBERF - the Out of Body Experience Research Foundation.

to Selski
You are probably right about not everybody surviving physical death. There do seem to be a lot of soulless people. Witness all the death and destruction caused by Islamic extremists. Wouldn't it be the ultimate irony if those people, who profess to want to die to attain paradise, actually ceased to exist upon physical death.
:exclamation:  

[SS_Patrick]

I'm sure that everybody will survive physical death. If you are good or evil has nothing to do with survival. Even the most cruel murderers will survive just like good people. There is no such thing as soulless human.

I believe that also animals, insects and viruses will survive. If they didn't have lifeforce (soul), they wouldn't be alive. In my opinion our souls are just more evolved than animals souls.

If you look at Pim van Lommel's article at the IANDS, you will probably understand what I mean. Anyway, it's an interesting article to read.

http://iands.org/research/vanLommel/vanLommel.php

He thinks that human brain only receives true consciousness, which is not physical. I think that this applies to all living things. We all are originally non-physical.