The elusive trance state!

[jilola]

quote: When I try to self-induce the falling sensation and clear my mind of thoughts, there's a sense of self-consciousness I can't get rid of. It seems if I consciously try to enter a trance, I can't.

I think you answered your question there.
At least for me the trick is not trying but allowing. When you start trying to enter a trance you block it with the effort. Just allow yourself to fade into the trance. It is a natural state and will happen if you make a clear intent and get out of the way.
It may take more time at first, but gets easier quickly.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Feelflowz]

Here's another question:

I've heard people say that going into the trance state is not needed for OBE's. I would think the trance state is essential.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

[oohyeah]

HI Feelflowz,

I'm new here too and still seeking the OBE, having achieved only vibrations so far. From what little I know, I would say you could try the following:

- muscle-relaxation exercises (eg., the tensing/untensing exercises)
- do some other physical exercises (qigong could do, depending on the type you're doing)
- listen to brain-state altering sounds, eg., Hemi-Sync, or use the Brainwave Generator software (see the Astral Consciousness forum on this board).

I was most interested to see that you often do qigong first before getting your OBEs. After reading in Astral Dynamics how important energy flow is, I was just thinking about trying that. I used to do qigong myself, and can feel the chi well, but haven't done it for a couple of years now. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_dissapprove.gif" border=0>
Could you tell me more about your qigong exercises and its effect on your OBEs?

KL

[Feelflowz]

Hi there Oohyeah

I have rarely been able to have an OBE without having done some qi gong first.  I guess it gives me that little bit of energy to slip into the trance state and feel the vibrations.  Most likely any kind of qi gong would do.  I did Mantak Qia's Smiling exercises where you sit down and imagine that you're smiling loving grateful energy to each of the 5 main organs and imagine that these organs, as if they were individual entities, smiling back to you. You can also imagine the color and positive emotion associated with the organ.
I would really take my time, up to an hour, and really get into the feeling of it.  Sometimes I might experience some tingling sensations, but usually  not.
I would do this around 5 or 5:30 in the morning then go back to bed.

Lying on my back back was essential for going into the trance state or lucid dreaming.  If I rolled onto my side I would usually slip into a regular dream.
Often while lying on my back and relaxing I would feel a pleasant tingling sensation on one side or both sides of my rib cage.  This usually indicated that I would soon slip into the trance state.  But if I got too excited it wouldn't happen.
I found the key to going into the trance was to not think about it at all and just allow myself to sleep.  If I tried consciously to go into a trance it would never happen.
This is what frustrates me now.  I would like to learn to go into the trance state using the methods Robert Bruce teaches and be able to go into trance during the day and not just early morning.

When I first started this qi gong routine it wasn't my intention to experience Lucid Dreaming or OBE's.  However I always wanted to experience these ever since having read and re-read Carlos Castaneda's books when I was in high-school and college.
Anyhow I noticed in the beginning that my dreams would get really strange and vivid, so I kept a dream journal and wrote down my dreams each morning.  I'm sure keeping a dream journal actually increased the vividness of the dreams.  After a while my dreams became even more strange and vivid and I would dream of having dreams within dreams.  Finally I started having short moments of lucidity.  That's when it became really exciting for me since all this Carlos Castaneda stuff was coming to life and I was becoming confident that it was all true.

Eventually while continuing this qi gong routine I started having different types of experiences.  Sometimes I would be having a regular dream and then suddenly become lucid.  Other times I would wake up aware of myself lying down but in a particulare state, the trance state.  Its a very distinct feeling and when you're in it you know it.  While in this trance state I would fee vibrations throughout my body, sometimes an arm or leg would spontaneously rise up (from the energy body), sometimes I would find myself wandering around my room, but I don't know if it was lucid dreaming or if I was OBE.
The longer I continued this routine, the more powerful and more frequent the experiences. Eventually I had a really mind blowing experience that turned out to be part OBE and part future travel.  I might describe that event in another forum.

Anyhow, give the qi gong a try early in the morning, go back to bed lying on your back and try keeping a dream journal for a while.  The key is consistency.  If nothing happens, don't be discouraged, just keep following the routine.  I thought of it this way, just do the qi gong for the health benefit and let the lucid dreaming and OBE be a pleasant side result.  The key is not to get too excited or anxious.
I'm trying to figure out the other key points for easily slipping into trance.  If you have any ideas, let me know1

Cheers
Paul

[ninthplanet]

hey feelflowz,
 good to have you on the forum.  I am interested in your slight variation on conventional method.  I was wondering if you could supply me with any quality sites that teach different forms of Qi Gong, in case I decide to try out your method. Thanks.
 
love, light, and peace my friends,
     ninthplanet

[oohyeah]

Thanks for the info, Paul!

hmm.... 5:30am might be a challenge, esp. as it would be difficult not to wake up the missus when the alarm goes off...

Why do you think you can't do it like in the afternoons? Is it cos you won't be sleepy enough?

KL

[Feelflowz]

Hi Ninthplanet

Qi gong has become really popular within the last few years.  I'm sure there's tons of stuff on the web.
Mantak Chia has written lots of books.  His style gets really esoteric, so its best to learn from a person, not a book.  Actually that's true for qi gong in general.
But I do recommend Chia's basic books, the ones on the Inner Smile, the Six Healing Sounds, and maybe the basic Microcosmic Orbit material.  You can easily find his books on Amazon.com
Doing the inner smile qi gong was enough to energize me and induce lucid dreaming and OBE's.  
But just to let you know, I was doing these exercises every day for about an hour in the evening and an hour in the early morning for about 3 months!  I had a lot of time on my hands during my last semester of college.
Also, I'd have to say Robert Bruce's energy stimulating and raising exercises are probably as good as any qi gong that is similar to it.
The routine my make a difference - get up early, to the exercises, than go back to bed as I described earlier.
Good Luck!


Oohyeah,

You're right.  In the beginning after my alarm went off, I just couldn't bother. I'd roll over and go back to sleep.  But after a few times of really forcing myself to get up and eventually getting positive results, I became more excited and motivated to wake up and 5 in the morning.

I don't know why it doesn't seem to work in the afternoon or evening.  Obviously it is possible since others, like Robert Bruce, do it.  It might be a matter of practice, consistent practice.
It's probably easier in the early morning since the longest periods of REM state occur during the  morning.  Even after fully waking up, its easier for our brains to slip back into those waves (theta? I forget).
Definitely give it a try for a couple of weeks if time allows.  Don't worry if nothing happens within the first week or longer. Just give yourself to the routine as I described earlier.  I'm sure you'll slowly start to have interesting experiences that will eventually accumulate to an OBE.  And try keeping a dream journal.  I that reinforces your subconscious intention to be aware in dreams.

Speak to you later,
Paul

[Lysear]

just thought I'd comment on the idea that you dont need to go into trance to experience astral projection. I believe this is possible through personal experience.

I was layin on my bed after being frustrated after a couple of hours of not being able to sleep. I decided to try this technique of imagining myself walking around my flat and imagining what it is like with all 5 senses, i.e smell what its like, feel (very important) listen etc. I then felt some odd sensations, I felt like I couldnt breath well to start with, then I felt like I was freeing from my body, very giddy light and starting to feel floaty. But i still had sensation and movement. I believe to this day that if I was in trance I would have gotten out.

"man makes his own history, but he does not make it out of whole cloth; he does not make it out of conditions chosen by himself but out of such as he finds close at hand. -Karl Marx

[Leviiathan]

Trance is not essential to experience vibrations.

Deep physical relaxation (my definition of DPR at present: you can still feel your body, or are at least aware of it, but it is relaxed in the way that you would feel if you had just woken up from a good night's rest) is essential to experiencing vibrations.
A mind relaxed state is also essential to obtaining vibrations.

What Trance is, in my opinion, is the state in which your body is asleep (and raising the bar a bit more, paralyzed). I cannot enter trance, though I can hit a deep physical relaxation point).

Also... an ability to exert pressure on your astral body is needed. This, in itself, is probably one of the biggest problems you will experience (the focus process). In order to get around this, trance is indeed essential for OoBE. If your body is asleep, how can it move and react to your attempts to exert mental pressure on the astral body (to cause a separation)?

[Feelflowz]

Interesting comments.

What is the difference between trance and deep physical relaxation?

[weagle]

have to agree dpr is the most important really its not the trance state thats important it's the raising the vibrational state to a level where you can literally just walk out of your body, it has happened to me one time I fell asleep I woke in one lucid dream mode where I was in my bed felt the vibrations intensely all over my body and just walked out without having to do any rope technique whatsoever.  Now if I can do the converse in a conscious state I'd bet I can pull off the same thing just walk out of my body only if I can raise the vibrations enough like in the dream state to help accomplish this.

[wildbank]

Paul,
You remind me of myself! About the smiling chakras, etc. I was doing that but didn't know that was a technique! Wow! I can make emoticons all over my organs with ease. You are doing the right thing.
As for inducing trances, they seem to me to be as natural as eating or even sex. You will know it more each day. You seem to be on the right track.
Helpful tip is to feel godlike, emulating big concepts in form instead of words, in real emotions instead of words.  Maybe it is like in acting school: everyone do the joy emotion! okay, everyone do the grief emotion! it can be duplicated with practice. A good actor knows how. I know how. So, try on the higher emotions and you are OUT OF YOUR BODY!!!!! the body probably cannot contain the higher octaves of emotions of joy and stuff, but you can do it, and the next thing you know you are in LA LA land. That to me is TRANCE. Getting the frequency you want.

Others succumb to drugs instead, not knowing they could artificially induce those emotions without! I don't do drink, smoke or drugs. I do the psyche-up, whenever I want.

I just read about what NOT DOING was. I finally understood! It is the absolute elimination of EFFORT in anything you do, you simply waltz into the task at hand, as if you and pencil, brush, keyboard are ONE. You would never know effort again. Trancing is like that. Just sail right into it at the flicker of the emotion or frequency switch that you remember. You are going to do this often enough and on automatic that it would seem natural.

Another tip, one day when my third eye started to swell up for no apparent reason, I took that as a call to go into meditation. Without getting up from my chair at pc, I just closed my eyes, and followed the third eye where it was tugging me. I remembered to use the indian rope trick because at the time I was practicing OBE per William Buhlman's technique. In no time, I was FAR OUT OF THIS WORLD, no body, no nothing and I had the greatest ride into eternity in all the glory I had ever experienced! So, it really is the culmination of all your practicing.  Also, my dreamcatching daily every AM just before I open my eyes after long sleep, scanning my memory for all the dreams and states that night, helped me bring back the recall into my brain for my enjoyment. Otherwise, we are OBEing all the time and not KNOWING it at conscious level.  Keeping a log makes this more automatic reflex for me. IT is like my flatbed scanner! Everything remembered!!!!! And this makes OBE lots easier in daytime as well. Everything helps.
You on right track babe.

[wildbank]

PS,
The "elusive" trance is no longer elusive, if you toss out that word "elusive" in your vocabulary. How about changing the term to AWAKE TRANCE. That sounds more self fulfilling to your wants. Also toss out the word "try", "need", etc. They are all disempowering words as mentioned in book LANGUAGE CODES by Neville Johnston. We create our realities by what we proclaim. It is those words! You are going to find all sorts of these word traps in our everyday language. Hilarious! How many times have you been told something was difficult and sure enough you find it difficult!  The trick is to make it into a little lie, like "OH THIS STUFF IS SO EASY!" If our children in education were presented with course material like this, we'd have a renaissance!

[wildbank]

In reviewing all your profiles, I am truly impressed at the ages in this group! Some of you are into music! (I am deaf since birth but I still hear out there astrally) I would imagine in your chants that you piggyback those streams coming out of your astral mouth and you sail with them! Has it been like that for you? Do you chant sometimes, does it make you trancelike?  I swore that when I chanted on the beach into the waves, it seemed to part like the Red Sea. It was beautiful it moved me so much! Yes, it is about emotion and frequency! Visually, I can see joy as an explosive feeling, expansive. I can view depressed as being sluggish, sticky, inertia-bound, etc. So, what can those high states be like? Use your imagination, and I think you will get there! Just if you can imagine it and imagine more using the data as you hop on them out there. You go to the horizon and you see another, and another! Wonderful, huh?

[Adrian]

Greetings Wildbank!

quote:Originally posted by wildbank

PS,
Also toss out the word "try", "need", etc. They are all disempowering words as mentioned in book LANGUAGE CODES by Neville Johnston.

I can't resist a couple of very appropriate and true quotes from Star Wars to support your observations:

Your focus determines your reality--- Quai Gon Ginn

Do or do not, there is no try--- Yoda

The fact is, due to the perfection and immutability of Universal Laws, negative thoughts will manifest negative consequences, and positive thoughts will manifest positive consequences. So those who think they cannot do something will get their wish, and will not be able to do it until they think that they can, and then they will.

And finally, for the benefit of our religious friends, I will conclude by pointing out that many things in religion are highly symbolic, if only religious people would realise it. For example, the line from the "Lords prayer"

Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven

Is the same as meaning as:

As above, so below

Everything created in the physical world has its origins in the Astral and Mental spheres, so in order to manifest something down here, it has to be planted "up there" - positive or negative, and that is an ongoing, often sub-conscious process - so be careful what you wish for![]  

With best regards,

Adrian.

p.s. I have just noticed what post number of mine this is }:)

[jilola]

Off topic but I just wanted to post something that clicked in Adrian's post:

Thy will be done on Earth as it is in  Heaven.

This is almost exactly the same Frank says about our will on the astral being equal to action.
Ie. on Earth(physical) we have to physically act(do) to realize or will but on the astral (heaven) our will is sufficient in itself. Will is done vs. will is.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Feelflowz]

Hi, I'm new to the forum.  What a great place!

I'm hoping to get some advice on how to enter the trance state.

I've experienced the trance state many times and have had a number of OBE's.  But I have yet to experience these directly from a conscious state.

Here's the system that I've been using:  I get up around 5 or 5:30 am, do about an hour of gi-gong (Mantak Chia's smiling to the internal organ exercises and microcosmic orbit) then I go back to bed.  If I lie on my back and relax and allow myself to fall asleep. If I'm lucky I will either have a lucid dream or automatically find myself in the trance state with vibrations. Sometimes I'll experience remote viewing, sometimes my arms or legs or both will float upwards.  
The problem is that it'sa hit and miss system.  Although, If I do it regularly, the frequency of the experiences increase. But it only works during the early morning hours and I can't always sleep in so late.

I can see that getting into the trance state is the key (besides energy raising). Once I'm in a trance, so much is possible.  This morining was one of those lucky times I somehow mysteriously drifted into a trance.  I was totally aware as it was coming and I could feel that heavy gentle falling sensation and the sharp focus of my mind.  It seems to happen automatically without any effort. For the first time I took Robert's advice about doing his energy stimulating exercises while in trance.  Wow!  It was so strong!  I thought my testicles were going to explode.  I tried to avoid that area, but it was no use.  The intense electrical vibes jolted me out of the trance and I just couldn't seem to get back into it again.

When I try to self-induce the falling sensation and clear my mind of thoughts, there's a sense of self-consciousness I can't get rid of. It seems if I consciously try to enter a trance, I can't.
What's the key to slipping into that elusive trance?!!

Any ideas?

Cheers