To Frank or any other experienced ober

[michael]

hi micron..Ill butt in...I average one obe a bout every 6 weeks or so..going through a balnk period which happens though..last time about threemonths ago...only mention this to indicate that it varies so much..seems to me you are doing great especially in the lucid dream department..and that is GOOOD i would suggest since in my experience I usually have a luicd dream prior to a fully conscious obe..good luck..tremendous isnt it..that first obe...more to follow i am sure for you...

[Leviiathan]

About the expanded energy body: I rarely feel it. I have, but it's rare for me.

About Disorientation: I get this from time to time. In fact, when I often start to induce the falling upon myself, I often feel myself begin to rotate in a circle. There are also times when I feel out of place with myself (i.e. my body's turned a bit on its side when it isn't). I've also felt a bit lower, above myself at times. This disorientation has messed me up on occassion since it was harder to visualize (not see), or rather, use the tactile imaging process.

About vertigo: I hit vertigo stages on occasion, but they never translate into falling. There was a time, when my awareness was dimmed to a considerable extent, that I had an odd experience that led into trance. Already physically relaxed and already having had my awareness dimmed considerably, I was also very much offkey with my body and my surroundings (namely, I was in a state where I could still feel). I experienced vertigo and become disoriented, in the way that it felt like my sense of direction had been smeared (like spinning around, save that the moment is experienced as one single time-freeze). Time had not stopped, but it felt that way. This kept up and eventually, in my vertigo disorientation state, I began to feel like I was falling. The sensation led on and took an authentic nature, which pleased me because it was indeed progress I had made.

About Vibes - I can put myself into a good relaxation state with low awareness (but not trance) and get the vibrations. As I've practiced, I've developed better focus and have found what works best for me in doing ROPE. I've also experimented with phasing (I practice 1 - 2 hours each night), that is, I let myself relax, awareness dim, generally phase out. Unfortunatelly, I experience time gaps on a regular basis that I cannot re-account. I wouldn't call it the case of falling asleep: one is usually aware that is happened because they eventually come to and experience the process of waking up. A Time Gap occurs and ends without notice, as if it didn't happen in the first place. For me, these usually last anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour.

About ROPE - The nature of ROPE is to exert pressure on your Astral Body (and outside awareness) to force a separation. Trance isn't needed to achieve a vibe state, but to maintain it and even control it (if not to bring about a separation), a body-sleep state is required. This, by nature, is the purpose of trance (something I have yet to master).

I used to get caught up with silly problems in climbing Rope. That is why, when I would climb it, I would experience the effect of my hands slipping (which would break my focus). Robert does a good job explaining things. When I climb Rope now, I just reach out, hold the position, and try to force the effect of myself rising up... on myself. There is no use in trying to visualize (or feel) yourself holding the ROPE (as it is wasted focus).

While I can begin with very good focus and motivation, and a driving force, it only takes some time before I lose focus. My climbing becomes slower, more prolonged, less driven (I feel it less), and I guess as I lose focus this comes from some disorientation. By the time I hit vibrations, my attempts have turned into pathetic, uncoordinated strokes. My mind experiments in an attempt to reset itself and ultimately, the repetitive process wanders and is ruined.

Another problem: I'm not in trance. My body also tenses up (even slightly). At present, I almost immediately recognize it when it happens. Supposed tension I feel is actually physical tension caused by my body tensing up.

What I find works even better than climing rope is climbing an invisible wall. I reach up, then pull myself up (i.e. induce the sensation of rising to where my hand is). The wall is flat whereas the rope is thin and rounded.

About Phasing - I would know phasing to be the process of minimizing your awareness to a minimal level, while inducing physical relaxation. Phasing itself, by this definition, makes up the entireity (or almost) of my meditation sessions. What should be a 15 minute ROPE climbing session turns out to be an hour long session of me just spacing out. Phasing . . .  and spacing . . . seem to share a lot in common. What has helped me considerably in this way has been hemi-sync (Dane Spotts is a great author. Download his "Ceaceaten (spelling?) Dolphin, Whale Experience" audio mp3 off a prog, such as Kazaa. It works in the way like BW Gen, cept the sound frequencies that induce lower brain activity are hidden in the background behind soothing, relaxing music you can just (space) out to. Hemi-Sync lasts about 30 minutes on average and loops around without any notice.

BW Gen works well as well. My thoughts on either is that it takes some time to condition your subconsicous into familiarizing itself with these frequencies. Each subconscious mind is different so no doubt there is some level of resistance involved (with the self-hypnosis process).

I'm sure this has nothing to do with what you were originally asking, but I thought I'd bring up some pointers on some Frequently-Asked-Subjects I've got experience in. No, I haven't projected, but I know where my faults are. I still have as yet to correct upon them.

About Meditaiton Positions Due to my difficulty in working while laying down, I've been more receptive to the idea of using a chair. Since I've never used a chair, I have no idea how better my results would be. I am sure I could be able to focus more, but since I am so used to laying down, the transition period would be a bit awkward at first. Ironically, I do not have any recliners or right means of seating to do this (without someone disrputing me). I'm at a library with sofas and comfy chairs. I can try and do it here <=D

In Robert's Treastie, he says nothing about laying down. He says that if you must, prop yourself up into a sitting position (on your bed), using pillows. I've read over his sections again and again, and he makes it clear that sitting is necessary (if not effective). I wonder if he advises against laying down because of the complications (in focus) that I've experienced. I should email him.

[micron]

Well first off id like to say hi to everyone as this is my first post on the board. I have been reading the posts made by all you fine ppl for quite some time and now i feel its time to ask a question *gasp* Anyway im directing the question to you frank because i noticed you use the same projecting method as i do so maybe you have an answer or tip (if anyone else does please chime in)

So far ive been practicing for about a year now and ive had 1 obe and tons of LD's in that time span. Anyway after im relaxed and in trance, i usually get the 'falling' feeling or the feeling that im as big as the room or that im spinning, which I can get to that point in about 10 minutes . but it seems as if my mind is too* awake and i cannot fully exit? (maybe not deep enough trance?) theres that one step that seems to elude me. *sigh* i know sounds strange but that what it seems like. my only obe happened after i fell asleep trying to project and woke up with vibrations, which i then just floated out. so anyway have any suggestions? i use the sleep for 6 hour / then project at 5am or so method also...thanks again everyone and keep up the great posts!!

PS. is there really any benefit over regular ap'ing VS phasing? seems to me that when ppl say phasing is easier, they are making a false generality...anyone? CYA