for real

[deeplyconcerned]

Has anyone here had a full blown OBE where they could actually observe something in the physical world they had not previously physically witnessed, or communicated with another living person, to be able to verify the experience later by confirming the physical reality observed or conversation with another person?
Or are all OBEs limited to individual experiences in "other planes", sensations and observations that are limited exclusively to a particular individual, and not shared, or are so vauge that they cannot be distinguished from the inner workings of the mind?
I would love to hear from or read about something more concrete than the murky shadowy glimpses and teasers so common in books and the internet.
feel free to email me directly daveunser@verizon.net
or call on me in the Astral, if that is possible.

[Inward]

Hi,

There's actually a whole bunch of recent threads that have discussed this. Some people think obe's are just imagination while others such as myself have hardcore scientific personal proof obe's are real.  You might be interested in reading some of those threads.

In a nutshell, my research reveals that at present Earth situation you cannot find global proof. Therefore the only option available for now is personal proof. Call it as you wish, the Matrix, the Collective, the Group Consciousness, God, etc.  Global proof of life after death and many other concepts is something the collective is not entertaining just yet.  I can prove obe's just as you mentioned time after time to myself, but I run into a brick wall when trying to prove it to people.  Could a person muster up enough willpower to prove life after death to another person? Yes.  I'd sure pity that poor Soul that accomplishes such a task. Wow what karma they will gain!

Inward

[learning]

Actually there is a lot of proof for OBEs.  Many studies have been done at famous universities that prove the reality of OBE beyond any doubt.  Seek and find.

[Inward]

Actually there is a lot of proof for OBEs.  Many studies have been done at famous universities that prove the reality of OBE beyond any doubt.  Seek and find.

Hi learning,

Robert Bruce has on his website a letter from Michael Ross that perhaps says it best, "Although the scientific proof of O.B.E. is, like so many paranormal phenomena seemingly "Will-o-the Wisp", those of us who have experienced it subjectively have absolutely no doubt that we have been out -of-body and functioning in a spiritual body in a spiritual dimension."
http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=103&BulletinID=224

As you say, obe's without doubt are real and there are indeed groups that proven this, but by _no_ means in a global way. The problem is groups take their proof to the science community and when they dig deep then the results become scatter all over the place thereby averaging out to zilch. It's coming to the point where the science community is against spending their research money on such things because time after time after time they get the same negative results.

On the other hand, perhaps you are referring to some new experiments. You refer to "famous universities." In that case, please by all means publish the detailed research because there are a lot of people at this forum that would very much like to know about hardcore scientific proof.

Like I say, the collective is not ready to entertain such ideas on a global scale, YET.  If you're correct, then perhaps YET has already arrived.

Inward

[deeplyconcerned]

to:
Inward
I will look into your statements and related posts
What exactly do you mean by the following?
>Could a person muster up enough willpower to prove life after death to another person? Yes. I'd sure pity that poor Soul that accomplishes such a task. Wow what karma they will gain!
why would karma be effected?

[learning]

to inward:

you can google.com search lots of astral terms and you might find enough studies that prove it. "research studies OBE proof" etc

university of santa barbara, duke univ. etc.  Charles Tart studies were famous too.

i don't have any desire to research since i know it's real.  

"projectiology" by waldo vieira has 5000 references.  it is actually 1200 pages, very heavy.

there are many others, like some Monroe Institute studies, etc.

amazon.com sells "projectiology", just type it on amazon.com.

i don't agree with all dr. vieira's interpretations of his experiences, but there is a chapter in projectiology that has a lot of scientific studies done before 1986 even.  i mean if you read that chapter, all your doubts are erased.  someone from west coast university projected on the east coast university and identified exactly the targets and read the time and when he did that they noticed his brainwave patterns shift, etc.  so cool to read that.  

projectiology deals with projections obviously.

also, there is that guy who wrote "how to obe in 30 days", Keith Harary, Pamela Weintraub.  free flight program.  this is a very short book you can buy for 1 dollar from amazon in perfect condition.  a little used, but no writing.  keith also had research done.  he has an institute of obe and other stuff research too.  

another way to find studies is to go to a good bookstore and browse thru all OBE books or order all major OBE books from amazon and you are bound to find references that lead to other sources who know more, etc. some of the most mind blowing studies i found from talking to other people.  not everything is easy to find by internet and by boostores or amazon, so when all strategies are combined success is sure.  

i mean even governments use psychics and astral projectors for espionage, so it's real.  it is as universal, as the laws of science.  

robert bruce doesn't know every study and nobody does.  it's so much going on.

George Meek did a lot of studies too.  'After We Die What Then' book is nice too.  His work was on Discovery Channel a few months ago.  He talked with his passed away wife, etc.  and a NASA scientist who died in 1967 who told him what transistor to use to make his inter-dimensional communication device better.  So many people in the world of ITC.  He talked about the lower astral, middle astral (lower and middle astral is where most folks live between lives), higher astral, mental planes, causal planes, celestial planes.  Everyone has their own terminology in their books based on their experiences, etc.  What some call higher astral, others call spiritual worlds beyond "astral" etc.

plus direct voice etheric box ectoplasm stuff on astralpulse.com

http://astralpulse.com/directvoicerecordings.html

see leslieflint.com too for same recordings.  

http://worlditc.org/ has more voice research and links to Meek research.

i mean it's huge - there is vast vast amount of studies and research and books published.  this is just what i can recall now.  

there are hundreds of obe methods one can use.  once u get good at it you can walk on the street, stop, detach, look at your heels, and then slide back in and continue walking.  i mean it takes some effort, but it's like learning to play chess or anything.  u can obe many times a day.

[Inward]

Hi learning,

I have my hardcore scientific personal proof. As mentioned numerous times at this forum I spent a great deal of early obe's on scientific experiments. Perhaps you too have your hardcore scientific personal proof, but I went through everything you mentioned in your post and while all these people are wonderful great people not a single one can successfully take any projector and prove obe's to the mainstream science community. I'll start with Charles Tart.

university of santa barbara, duke univ. etc.  Charles Tart studies were famous too.

I love Charles Tart. He's a great Soul! Below is a list of his science papers, but now where will you find any hardcore evidence. Even in the words of Charles Tart, "Two incidents occurring in the laboratory provide suggestive evidence that the out of-the-body experiences had parapsychological concomitants." Charles Tart is an honest man. He will not tell you there is hardcore scientific proof for the world that obe's are provable, yet. Yet one day it will happen. The world is approaching the time when such hardcore proof of life after death on a global scale is known fact.

Science Papers by Charles T. Tart
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles1.cfm


Some Methodological Problems in OOBE Research
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=51

Further Psychophysiological Study of Out-of-the-Body Experiences in a Gifted Subject, Robert A. Monroe
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=4

Psychophysiological Study of Out-of-the-Body Experiences in a Selected Subject
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=31

Second Psychophysiological Study of Out-of-the-Body Experiences in a Selected Subject
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=32

Six Studies of Out-of-the-Body Experiences
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=50

"projectiology" by waldo vieira has 5000 references.  it is actually 1200 pages, very heavy.

I love Waldo Vieira's work. I mentioned Waldo at this forum few days ago. In fact I've been re-reading his book for the last week. Waldo definitely has his hardcore scientific proof, but it is personal proof.  He did not bring hardcore proof for the world. Probably for the exact same reasons that when I tried to prove obe's to several friends that I ran into a brick wall, figuratively speaking. Yet, I can prove time after time to myself using very hardcore scientific experiments.

there are many others, like some Monroe Institute studies, etc.

Yes, just about everyone here knows of Robert Monroe. Charles Tart studied Monroe giving him the task to read a five-digit target number, but as we all should know Monroe failed the task. There are groups that have succeeded such scientific experiments. The problem is when they try to replicate the exact same experiments in a largely publicized group of mainstream scientists.

amazon.com sells "projectiology", just type it on amazon.com.

Yes, you mentioned Waldo's work above.

i mean even governments use psychics and astral projectors for espionage, so it's real.  it is as universal, as the laws of science.

Yes, I agree. Jerry Gross is one such individual.

George Meek did a lot of studies too.  'After We Die What Then' book is nice too.

About a few decades ago I purchased just about all his infolios/newletters.  I believe last year'ish Art Bell played a live recording of George Meek spirit conversations from the spirit world. Really awesome stuff. Now if they wanted hardcore proof for the world then they would design a scientific experiment and get the mainstream science communities approval of the design and then demonstrate it to notable scientists. Broadcasting on a radio show doesn't count as hardcore science experiment.

People like ourselves do not need such proof because we have already found our personal proof. IMHO it's misleading to people to tell them there's hardcore scientific evidence that has been proven on a large mainstream scale. There are groups of people who've succeeded and if one is fortunate enough to find such a group the great or if one puts forth the time & effort they too can achieve obe's and eventually become adept enough to prove it to themselves.  Looking at tons of papers that provide suggestive evidence is misleading when viewed from a distance and IMHO it's wishful thinking to believe the evidence on a global scale is there. That's why I push and push for people to achieve personal proof because that is presently a viable path. It simply takes time & effort, but time very very very well spent.


Inward

[Inward]

to:
Inward
I will look into your statements and related posts
What exactly do you mean by the following?
>Could a person muster up enough willpower to prove life after death to another person? Yes. I'd sure pity that poor Soul that accomplishes such a task. Wow what karma they will gain!
why would karma be effected?

Hi deeplyconcerned,

There are people who can prove obe's to skeptics and disbelievers. It takes a powerful and advanced person. If a person over powers and drastically mistakenly changes the spiritual path of another person who is not ready for such a change then they cause a negative effect. You can call this effect "karma" or "reaping what you sew" or the "law of cause and effect" etc. Regardless, this effect will eventually need to be dealt with on this plane. In such a case we're talking about a spiritual crime. Also remember that what a person thinks is best is not by any means best. There is a higher aspect within each person that knows what the best path is.

Perhaps one of the most difficult concepts for the lower self to accept is that "knowing everything" is not by any means the goal and purpose in Earth physical life. Remember, we all come from spirit, a place where such things are already known.

There are very specific reasons why the Soul places a veil over the lower self during this period on Earth.  On the other hand, there are of course people who are ready for such information as proof of obe's. Those people are usually guided by their Soul to a group, a book, or a situation where they will eventually find their own personal proof. In the rare case, some people have even earned the right to witness such supernatural abilities, but witnessing such things does very little for the person. Yes, they gain information, that they already knew before birth. Yet by removing such a veil by knowing of such things the person is now limited in what she or he can gain in the rest of his or her present lifetime.

Let me put it this way. Take a person through a jungle experience. They learn how to survive, what type of animals to not approach, etc. Now remove their memories. For the most part they would need to re-learn everything again. Yet, to some small degree, deep within their psyche they will intuitively know some things. Now once again put them through the jungle experience and then again erase their memory. Keep repeating this over and over. Eventually the experiences will be embedded so deep that they will recall the experiences as it becomes second nature. This is going from "knowledge" to "second nature." That's perhaps a bad analogy, but it may give you an idea why the Soul places a veil over the lower self on Earth.

Are there planets where people incarnate without the veil? Yes! Your Soul & Spirit chose, for very good reasons, to incarnate on this planet.

Through pain and suffering people learn at a very deep level the lesson of compassion for other beings for example. It is a choice we all made for our self, even though we do not remember.

Inward