Why does it have to be so startling, loud, and annoying?

[Cosmic_Ambitions]

Does anybody know why the precursors to OBE's have to be so startling, loud, and annoying; sometimes painfully disturbing in a "Twighlight Zone" kind of way? Why can't it be more of a subtle, calming, unchaotic experience... I'm referring to the loud roar that is often heard... the strange "Twighlight-zonish" sounds, the loud obnoxious bangs, and the sometimes eerily creepy random voices... Does anybody know why it can't be a more joyous & wonderful transitioning experience into OB states? Why does it have to be so utterly weird?

Curious,
PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

[Mydral]

I never hear those things....

[Selski]

Hi Cosmic

Do you always get the noise and disturbance?  I do occasionally, but mostly my transitions are peaceful and smooth.  I don't get the vibes.

I suppose there are theories abound as to why it should be so.  Here's a few off the top of my head... (warning - some might be lighthearted)...

1. Perhaps the astral world doesn't like physical entities in their world, so they make the gateways confusing and startling hoping to put us off.

2. We might be actually experiencing something else, but because our brains can't comprehend what it is, is goes for the nearest known, therefore we end up with loud voices whispering our names.

3. There may be something in the fact that we have (at least) two bodies and separation of one from the other is disturbing/unpleasant/not normal - therefore the rushings and noises are actually alerting the physical that something is NOT RIGHT and we should stop immediately.

4. We DO in fact go through the infamous "Twilight Zone" between physical and astral worlds.

5. There are volunteer creatures who live permanently at the entry points and scare the living daylights out of us on purpose - because they hate us.

6. There are volunteer creatures who live permanently at the entry points and scare the living daylights out of us on purpose - for a laugh.

7. Because life is weird.



Sarah

[AndrewTheSinger]

Selski, I like your speculation  

[Cosmic_Ambitions]

I like your thougths as well Selski... very well thought out.

Thanks,

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

[Job]

We'll, some of the noises are actually sounds coming from the astral body in the separation process.

The voices, sometimes scene images, etc. are called hypnogogs--which are simply illusive creations of the subconscious.

Astral projection is conscious sleep. So, as we sleep we enter the astral plane. This process happens every time we sleep. The forgetting of the experience relates somehow to certain transactors which send information between the astral and physical planes.

I've been to another dimension with the physical body (this one). Then, whenever I came back to the physical plane, my memories were clear and concrete. Astral memories are different, because the memories have to move between the astral body and this one.

Relating back to illusive subconscious-creations, these are actually dreams forming just before we enter the astral plane. Sometimes they seem to become full-fledged just before we enter the astral (if we can remember). That's the reason why so many strange, inexplicable things, are usually happening in the astral.

Although, the astral does have different laws--accounting for the ability to fly and for solid objects to pass through one another.

[GroovyGoddess]

Does anybody know why the precursors to OBE's have to be so startling, loud, and annoying; sometimes painfully disturbing in a "Twighlight Zone" kind of way? Why can't it be more of a subtle, calming, unchaotic experience... I'm referring to the loud roar that is often heard... the strange "Twighlight-zonish" sounds, the loud obnoxious bangs, and the sometimes eerily creepy random voices... Does anybody know why it can't be a more joyous & wonderful transitioning experience into OB states? Why does it have to be so utterly weird?

Curious,
PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Realtime and Astral Zones are much more thought responsive than 'physical reality'. So if you have any fears or racing thoughts of any kind, they will manifest into realtime or astral experiences. The whole experience is completely colored by your mind. I've read that only the most developed projectors have the ability to see clearly when out of the body without creating illusion. I haven't been able to do it for more than a minute or two without distorting reality.

And reality distortions can be quite frightening. The mind can reverberate upon itself and produce all kinds of imagined terrors. And from my experiences, these 'imagined terrors' have nearly no basis for comparison in the physical.

I think one of the biggest fears that most projectors really face is the feeling that they have nothing to hold onto. When you're experiencing a sense of infinite space, it can be easily intimidating and just overwhelmingly sublime. The physical is so reassuring with its continuity of forms; whereas the astral can really throw a persons mind through a loop.

[fuse]

For me vibrations ususally quickly fade in, and dont startle me, but sometimes it makes my heart miss a beat for some reason even though im expecting it. I also feel a sort of crushing presence on my body aswel which just kinda feels ... awkward. Surely if we project in our sleep we must skip these symptons otherwise they we wake us up?

Could someone please explain the difference between the RTZ and the astral, so far i understand the the RTZ is the life we are actually living and the present world we live in, but is the astral just imagination? Also if what we experience is real, how do we manifest fears, and wouldnt it be possibly to manifest things that make us happy aswell? This is partly my fear of projecting even though i frequently get vibrations because sometimes my mind seems to wander off on its own path, and me fearing projection could surely make something manifest to scare me.

[Cosmic_Ambitions]

It sound like things are rather hectic and mindfully based during obe... For example, as was noted, racing thoughts during an obe/astral projection will lead to some pretty unstable experiences; whereas, crisp/clear thoughts will be a lot more solid/stable. My question is now with regards to permanantly passing into the afterlife... Physically dying. I was wondering if the permanent transition into the afterlife will be extensively different than say an obe/astral projection... Beings the person was probably unprepared for the death (i.e. car wreck)... would it follow that a transition such as this would be a lot more "guided"/"stuctured"/"stable" than an obe/astral projection, beings the individual is probably mentally under a great deal of stress, and that carrying those thoughts into a place that is based on thoughts would probably not bode well to the situation... Would a permanent physical death transition into the afterlife be more guided/stable/and structured? Or would we be left to fend for ourselves as is commonly customary in an obe?

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions 

[Job]

Well, most of the time when I astral project now, I project without any sensations. My astral body simply naturally separates from the physical one. There are things I have to do though to get consciously into the transition of sleep (mantras). I think the reason why all the abnormal sensations happen is because the person in the process of separation is doing things which are causing reactions in the physical body--with the physical body partially awake there is resistance in the separation of the bodies.

I have been in the astral plane and traveling along fine in the astral body. Then whenever I did something that is a property of the physical body I was pulled back to it. In that case, I began to use the brain--which exists in the physical body.

What helps sometimes to maintain a stay in the astral is to grab ahold of an object or to focus on being more aware there (so that the attention momentarily shifts back to the astral body).

I'm still not sure what people mean by the RTZ. I have even heard people mention the etheric plane. However, what I've heard is that the etheric plane is the 4th dimension, with the vital body (the astral plane being the 5th). If that's so, then from a minute amount of experience I have, the physical body is needed to enter the etheric plane--there is no etheric projection, simply etheric departure.

We'll a good way to get past the fears is experience. With experience of the astral plane you begin to realize more that you can't be harmed and that the most any real entity can do there is try to scare you. With the wandering thoughts, and vastly sized subconscious, there are ways to reduce it and to increase consciousness--even consciousness in the physical plane (waking life).

The increasing of consciousness is enlightenment. Very few people have 100% consciousness (no subconscious). These people are always aware in the astral plane. Some people are more conscious in the astral than normal people but just can't remember all or most of their astral experiences.

Cosmic_Ambitions,

From what I've heard, some transitions to physical death are actually kind of like a relief. Standing out in the hot sun for a great amount of time many of us begin to feel exausted. Then whenever we go into a cool air-conditioned building it's almost as if our vitality is restored. I've heard that the most gruesome and terrible deaths have resulted in the most blissfull and peace-fillled experiences. Not to say that a suicide would experience the same. From some peoples' accounts the level of consciousness is actually heightened from that instant.

This is very vague account. I'll put it here though to supplement the topic and add a little sense. In one of my past lives I was stabbed in the chest. I died, a little happy, not even grieving for my death.

[GroovyGoddess]

Cosmic_Ambitions,

From what I've heard, some transitions to physical death are actually kind of like a relief. Standing out in the hot sun for a great amount of time many of us begin to feel exausted. Then whenever we go into a cool air-conditioned building it's almost as if our vitality is restored. I've heard that the most gruesome and terrible deaths have resulted in the most blissfull and peace-fillled experiences. Not to say that a suicide would experience the same. From some peoples' accounts the level of consciousness is actually heightened from that instant.

This is very vague account. I'll put it here though to supplement the topic and add a little sense. In one of my past lives I was stabbed in the chest. I died, a little happy, not even grieving for my death.

There have been times in my life where I have seriously considered suicide. Even lately, I've encountered difficulties that have just seemed absolutely overwhelming to me. I really never wanted to die, but just for the pain to stop. But I've always feared that suicide might simply put me into a worse sitution; if there is a next time around.

[loppoppy]

I never had the problem of fear for astral projecting, which might explain how all of my exits out of my body have been exciting and sometimes peaceful. usually i get a silent rush like i'm moving 1000 mph without moving. But if i project after meditation it's like my soul opening up into a world of freedom and purpose.

Maybe you should try meditating before you astral project, your mind will be a lot calmer and you will be less likely to be interrupted with thoughts of fear. From there it's all down to experience to wipe out your fear for good.

[fuse]

I randomly experienced the dreaded creepy voices today when i was half asleep and now i know i have experienced them many times before but because i was half asleep i didnt care, i think its partly our imagination because it sounded like it was in my ear. But come to think of it i have had voices when i was younger that appeared to be in my room and have startled me and fully woke me up.
Now i know what vibrations are i realised i have experienced these many times before but just never really took notice. Only through information being read about APing i know what these are called and i think for me, it has added a huge amount of fear. But luckily now i know ive experienced it all before i can get over the fear element now.

Out of interest, i wonder how many times in our lives we have woke up and got a drink or used the toilet, but really we havent and we were just having an OBE, and we never realised. 

[Job]

There might definately be repurcusions for suicide. For one thing, it's unnatural and the person who does it does not only affect their-self, but they affect others in various ways. You could even say the universe, the world, everything is connected and exists under laws. In complex math whenever you make a mistake sometimes you have to go back several steps just to correct it. Some math problems take about half a page to do. Imagine the universe as a complex math problem (though it might not be). When a mistake occurs there is an enormous amount of effort in things that have to be done to correct the problem. So, commiting suicide can be considered a mistake in the math. Then the person who's doing the math has to go back, review the mistake, and do what's neccessary to try to get it not to happen again. Also, there are such people who try to help people develop spiritually, to correct their faults, and learn to live happy lives. These are the beings with awakened consciousness (angels, spiritual masters, whatever you wanna call them)...Although, not everyone with an awakened consciousness has achieved the angelic level.

When a kid does something bad (yet knows no better) what does the parent do? Are they going to let the habit develop in the child untill it consumes them and they ultimately live retched and terrible lives? Or, are they going to do what they think it takes to get the child to learn to correct the mistake (because the child must learn the mistake for their-self)?

[fuse]

Reinforcing Job's opinion, i believe that we are all down here for a purpose or reason, whether to teach or to learn. If you cut your trip short without accomplishing anything, you will be sent straight back down to finish the thing that you never in the first place.

And i think that if you are just gonna have to do the same thing again, why not get it over with now.

[GroovyGoddess]

There might definately be repurcusions for suicide. For one thing, it's unnatural and the person who does it does not only affect their-self, but they affect others in various ways. You could even say the universe, the world, everything is connected and exists under laws.

When a kid does something bad (yet knows no better) what does the parent do? Are they going to let the habit develop in the child untill it consumes them and they ultimately live retched and terrible lives? Or, are they going to do what they think it takes to get the child to learn to correct the mistake (because the child must learn the mistake for their-self)?

You're absolutely right about this...

I realize that there is a guiding intelligent force driving all of existance; and to disregard it out of ignorance is a gross act of immaturity. We have a very narrow and distorted perception of reality on this side of the curtain which effectively clouds our judgement. Who are we to override the decision of the intelligent force that placed us here?

[CFTraveler]

I actually like exit sensations- Because then I know that I'm on the verge of separation.  Ironically, though, I don't get them as often as I used to.  A while ago upstream described them as something akin to 'epileptic seizures' and that sounds right to me.  You are changing modes of perception, from your brain to your (astral body or whatever you call it).  If you are switching to a 'higher vibrational body, or a zero-mass body, or something radically different than your physical body, it follows that the transition to a different existence could be briefly perceived by the brain as it switches, and your physical senses would perceive or interpret them as electrical discharges, vibrational information, which is what an epileptic seizure is in the brain.  But then, that's only my idea based on my experiences.

[loppoppy]

thinking of it as a math problem. Maybe the original mathmatician comprehended the mistake so it was worked into the equation as not to effect it. If that makes sense.

And about the voice thing, last night I was wondering why i had never before experienced these freaky voices, it was then I heard a deafening scream that came from outside my door and flew right past my ear and out the window. Apparently these sorts of things are our imagination but damn that felt pretty real to me and i wasn't that sleepy either. Maybe it is just beings pratting around and they could feel that i was comprehending it so they acted on it. Or maybe my subconcious is very imaginitive. Now i've experienced the voices i'm not sure on my opinion anymore.

[Job]

loppoppy,

Your case sounds like there might have been something else involved other than the subconscious. It's difficult to tell, if not impossible; but the cause could well be a real entity.

http://astralpulse.com/forums/index.php/topic,2080.msg117814.html#msg117814

The voices are different. We might hear various screams: those of children, men, women, etc., which happen just before the separation from the body. Of course, there are not really men, women, boys, girls, and voices of strange creatures, etc., but they are actually the subconscious. This, in a demented kind of way, is the subconscious anomalies' way of expressing its desire not to be pulled away from the body. The subconscious is explained in various esoteric sacred texts. It is called psychic adjuncts, selves, egos, demons, etc..

As a kid I was aware of their manifestation in me and that I didn't have complete conscious control. With them removed we gain higher consciousness and lucidity. In this case, in the astral dream scenes will begin to go away and we see more of the real environment; it will also have a visible effect on the senses in the physical plane (waking life). I suppose, this "higher consciousness" might explain the reason why in ancient times the reduction of the subconscious was called "enlightenment". Of course, people take enlightenment now to mean knowledge; but I know one place which seems to favor this concept. At that place enlightenment is "Illumination"--the increasing of essences (the light and particles of the soul). Whereas the subconscious--that which is bellow the level of consciousness--are the "devil" and "demons" in the bible (there are many of these astral parasites).

[zeitaxxl]

Hello Selski!

I like all your posts. You are so ...'inside', so to say...!


You said:
"5. There are volunteer creatures who live permanently at

the entry points and scare the living daylights out of us on

purpose - because they hate us. "

But why ? Why would they hate us???


"6. There are volunteer creatures who live permanently at

the entry points and scare the living daylights out of us on

purpose - for a laugh."

You meant : they feel happy to laugh about us? Why?

I feel so depressed to think about all this...


Can you be so kind to explain?

Tam

[WindGod]

years ago I read about certain inner sounds, bell/gong, horn. Because of hearing orchestra music in my head during the hypnogogic phase, I thought this was interesting.

One morning, just waiting to get out of bed for work, I was very startled to hear very clearly and loudly, the horn, bell, and gong sounds all as one blended together, combined with an intense vibration.

The sound was as loud and as vivid as hearing church bells ring in a village.

I thought of meditating and concentrating on the sound(s) but I had to get ready to leave the house and actually it was so intense that fear was creeping in anyway.

Also, recently during sleep paralysis before waking up, I was "looking" at the bedroom and then I thought I saw a woman and heard a scream, and I wondered, "who did I tinkle off". I think it was from the subconscious, but was Fairly vivid.

It's great to read about these experiences here, and has helped me to dispel fears, thanks.

[zareste]

Hmm, I've never had such problems, but I think we've all had similar things happen as we wake up from ordinary sleep.  Y'know those freakish occurrences that sometimes happen as you wake up - I think we naturally come loose from our human forms while asleep, then if a noise disturbs our sleep, we're quickly pulled back into the neural tracks, which can be alarming if you're in the middle of REM sleep and could cause loud noises and weird images.

It mostly happens when you're in a lot of stress already.  Conversely, separation could do the same.  This can't account for all OBE noises since there could always just be a spirit trying to annoy you.

As for suicide - you won't find anyone who had a good experience killing themselves, because they failed.  They're alive, so they didn't actually kill themselves, and all they experienced was an NDE and a lot of pain resulting from their living body.  The angels say they do send people back to Earth if they commit suicide, however, angels send people back thousands of times each, regardless of how they die.  It's no problem to them.

Now, let's quit being gullible for a second.  When angels say 'learning', they mean it the way the government says 'correctional facility' as a cover for 'prison'.  The angels' faction uses Earth as a torture chamber and we're here to 'learn' until we've died so many gruesome deaths that we submit our will to their hierarchy.  Suicide gives a person a window of opportunity to escape, so naturally the angels geared every religion and law toward preventing such an escape.

[Selski]

Can you be so kind to explain?

Hi Tam

I was being lighthearted.  I personally don't believe either of those to be the case - but I'm sure some people might, depending on the type of experiences they have.

The subject - astral projection - is so open to interpretation/expectation/perception, it's hard to know even vaguely what's going on, never mind exactly what's going on.  That's why I gave various different theories to the initial question, to show that not one thing is an absolute given.

The one piece of advice I can give - and one that will hopefully be shared by most, if not all, fellow projectionists - is not to show/have any fear.  Fear tends to either zap you back to the physical or manifests itself into all sorts of shadows and 'fearful' happenings.

If you are going into this afraid - get yourself a different hobby. 

Sarah

PS Sorry it took me a while to respond - I'm still getting used to the new layout of the forums and my pea brain finds it hard at times... 

[Zmann966]

hahahaa...

I know if I was an entity permanentally there, scaring poor little projecters would be funny.

[Selski]

You meanie Zmann. 

I smite you!!   

Sarah