an amazin 5 day journey or the road to insanity?... are negs real?.. :(

[Spawn_Xe]

Sorry for the long post, but if someone could read through it and offer some advice or.. i dunno, somthing.. i just i need a friendly shoulder right now. It'd be very much appreciated 

Some of you may have noticed me surface on the forum a few days ago lookin for answers. As it all started on Wednesday with simple sleep paralysis (i wont recount it all as i've already posted about it here), researching this attempted a trance state the following day and successfully reached the vibrations stage before being interuppted. The morning after i was drunk and hungover so... nothing lol. Then i almost got out and managed get to a point where i could feel my heart chakra purring away for a bit that night... before being interuppted again!! lol. But the most intruiging is what i am about to write.

After being recommended to read up on Robert Bruces material (thank you lucid_learner!) i've done so intently the last few days and learned a hell of alot, especially concerning the NEW techniques which are just astounding. I was introduced to Negs.... now this bit kind of confused me at first, especially when being initially told the spirits/energys of the astral could not harm us and there were no such things as demons etc. The only reason i actually continued to read is because it eerily described similar things that have been happening to me. I wont go through the whole story but some months ago (i actually wrote about this in my journal) i had been noticing desires and thoughts which seemed very irrational for me, i'm a very very logical person.. a reason why i'm not at all religious, yet i'd get bouts of ilogical, self destructive 'wants'. Now yes, i'm human we all get excrement like that.. but i also have this grissly growth on me that started around about the same time as the 'wants'... which was when i moved into an old house that im currently renting. Maybe its coincidence and made it up all in my mind, i certainly hope note, i'm too young to go insane!!.. because... i may have faced this demon last night.

Now, i'm not one to have nightmares often.. i very rarely actually remember my dreams (a problem im working on), even less likely is for me to dream about somthing that i've been thinking about just hours before i sleep. If i had to class last night, i would call it a nightterror, somthing i've never experienced. As i write this i feel like laughing at its stupidity, had it not felt so strong.

I felt sharp pricking pains on my shoulder and elbow most of the night, i used NEW to clear them when i got them but it rarely worked so i attributed it to something real world (still not sure what it was but it was very painfull and itchy, yet scratching it did nothing). After getting relaxed but not quite into a trance state, i constructed my astral sword intricutly (beautifull and fearsome i must say, this is where playing rpgs paid off!), and stood prepared for any negative images that surfaced. Ofcourse as you'd expect.. nothing happend. Being new to this whole visualisation scene in general.. i'm still somewhat confused on how Bruce could literally tear negative images from his mind and turn them over to reveal new images. This.. is obviously somewhat too advanced for me. Regardless i persevered until i fell asleep.. or astralled.. i'm not sure at the moment its all hazey like a dream, yet i was aware of what was happening from my own perspective.

I remember hitting my trance state but im not sure if i slipped into a dream or not. I was lying in my bed yet mentally sitting in my mind with my sword, in the darkness and slashing and burning (my sword can flame up at will) any negative image that surfaced.. there werent many so it was a long process, i tried turning them over but on the rear side was just garbled colours, so cant be sure if it was just my imagination playing tricks. The next thing i remember are some disturbing faces and sounds, but more strongly i could feel the reaction my body was having... it was hyperventilation, i could feel my skin stand on edge and my breath irratic and gasping in terror as i slashed and burned pretty much any mental thought at that point lol (somewhat of a frenzy). It seemed to last a long time, some of the images were just harrowing haloween type stuff and others were deformed faces, one of which i have a clear mental image of (an asian woman with her left eye that is red and half way down her face) . From what seemed nowhere, i felt very warm and soft hands grasping me from behind and holding onto me.. they were very comforting. Initially i had thought it'd been my girlfriend hugging my physical self, but in retrospect, as i was still aware that i was lying in bed, horizontal.... the position of the hug would have been physically impossible. The warm hands around my chest calmed me down somehwat and brought me a step back from the action to more of an observing state. I remember nothing after that except waking up early morning a little dazed, confused and exhausted.

Im not expecting anyone to read all of this.. its a hell of alot of explaining for such little events. I'm a little emotionless today.. somewhat numb.. somewhat thinking i've lost my mind at the speed in which things have developed. The one thing that annoys me most is this may not have happend had i not read RB's Psychic Defense, as he says that giving negs attention allows them to give you attention.. but how can one formulate strategies against them if you dont acknowledge they are there? its all so confusing and frsutrating.... 

[knightlight]

Well I can say that after reading Psychic self defense that I was a bit Neg-afide as well but I got over it.  That book is like the ultimate guide to inducing paranoia and freaking people out.  I consider that book to honestly be a giant propaganda document meant to scare people and cause a need, an attatchment to Robert Bruce.  If he says "Be wary of negs, this is what it will be like, this is what you should look out for (because you have them without knowing it unless you use my methods, etc) and this is how to get rid of them. "  Its one giant self fulfilling prophecy.  I respect Roberts other works, Astral Dynamics, NEW, etc but this book I dont respect one bit.  I too did the visualization you speak of with similar results.  If you go into a trance and look for something most times you find it.  We both went in looking for negs and found "them".  After about a month of neg based fear and paranoia as well as an increase in negative experiences during sleep and normal projection I stood up one day and screamed "This is ridiculous!  I wont take this anymore, all this stops now!  I wont be controlled by my own fear!" and ever since that day ive had very few negative experiences, and when I have I was the one in control, quickly dominating the situation. 

[Nay]

Great to hear that Knightlight!   I too have great problems with Robert's neg craze...ugh.   Nothing like making a buck off people's fears. 

[Vvid1012]

Well I can say that after reading Psychic self defense that I was a bit Neg-afide as well but I got over it.  That book is like the ultimate guide to inducing paranoia and freaking people out.  I consider that book to honestly be a giant propaganda document meant to scare people and cause a need, an attatchment to Robert Bruce.  If he says "Be wary of negs, this is what it will be like, this is what you should look out for (because you have them without knowing it unless you use my methods, etc) and this is how to get rid of them. "  Its one giant self fulfilling prophecy.  I respect Roberts other works, Astral Dynamics, NEW, etc but this book I dont respect one bit.  I too did the visualization you speak of with similar results.  If you go into a trance and look for something most times you find it.  We both went in looking for negs and found "them".  After about a month of neg based fear and paranoia as well as an increase in negative experiences during sleep and normal projection I stood up one day and screamed "This is ridiculous!  I wont take this anymore, all this stops now!  I wont be controlled by my own fear!" and ever since that day ive had very few negative experiences, and when I have I was the one in control, quickly dominating the situation. 

ahhh my thoughts exactly!  the more you read and research apparent negs, the more you are likely to meet one 

[Sentinal]

It doesn't hurt to introduce a little logic once in a while.

One of the things that Robert Bruce wrote was that negs are not able to cross running water. It's an old Celtic belief. So he suggest running aquarium tubing around the room attached to a pump. To believe that this would work shows a two dimensional thinking to begin with. Why couldn't a spirit move three dimensionally over the tubing? We do. What about four dimensionally? If we dismiss those ideas then how about looking at the structure of a city? Water pipes, drains, gutters, flood control, and rivers, all crossing in different directions. Should we believe that something that crossed all that would be stopped by bit of aquarium tubing?

I think it is easier to believe that Robert Bruce is not the expert he pretends to be. He as really only proven that he can sell books, not that he knows anything about this or even that he believes what he wrote.

[Nay]

That is what I mean about praying on people's fears.  All these old superstitions that have been brought to light once again.  Are we really that thick headed that we believe taking a shower or a salt bath is what will keep the evil spirits off us...LOL..  It is nothing more than mind over matter.  But if you find a group of people that aren't quite past superstitions, you find a group of people that will find any excuse that doesn't point the finger in their direction.  God forbid if we all took a little responsibility in our lives.

It's wrong that someone can capitalize on other people's naivety or ignorance.   I fart in his general direction.   

[Vvid1012]

It doesn't hurt to introduce a little logic once in a while.

One of the things that Robert Bruce wrote was that negs are not able to cross running water. It's an old Celtic belief. So he suggest running aquarium tubing around the room attached to a pump. To believe that this would work shows a two dimensional thinking to begin with. Why couldn't a spirit move three dimensionally over the tubing? We do. What about four dimensionally? If we dismiss those ideas then how about looking at the structure of a city? Water pipes, drains, gutters, flood control, and rivers, all crossing in different directions. Should we believe that something that crossed all that would be stopped by bit of aquarium tubing?

I think it is easier to believe that Robert Bruce is not the expert he pretends to be. He as really only proven that he can sell books, not that he knows anything about this or even that he believes what he wrote.

I believe it was meant to be more of a belief construct...believing you are safe being more important.

[Sentinal]

Believing that you are safe may make you feel better but living in a fictional world seldom means that you are.

I once met a woman who insisted it was perfectly safe to walk around in gang territory, provided you were unarmed. Anyone think her belief would prevent her from being robbed, raped or murdered if she actually tried it?

Many of the people reading his work are treating it as though it were a science. If they do these rituals or have these charms they will be safe. They hang on his every word as though it was law. This does not encourage growth, it only sends them on an endless search for another ritual to try and control their world. It is a path that takes them further and further from the truth.

[Vvid1012]

Believing that you are safe may make you feel better but living in a fictional world seldom means that you are.

I once met a woman who insisted it was perfectly safe to walk around in gang territory, provided you were unarmed. Anyone think her belief would prevent her from being robbed, raped or murdered if she actually tried it?

Many of the people reading his work are treating it as though it were a science. If they do these rituals or have these charms they will be safe. They hang on his every word as though it was law. This does not encourage growth, it only sends them on an endless search for another ritual to try and control their world. It is a path that takes them further and further from the truth.

well there ya go, that's life... ritual after ritual in search of truth.

The question on my mind is... the one who gets robbed, raped, and murdered...did they believe it could be possible?  Odds are, yes, they did.  How powerful is belief?  Do we even need scientific evidence? People are always expanding the limits of what is possible.  Perhaps the simple yet complex act of believing is enough to move forward.  A tool used to get past the fear.  There is always more than one solution to any given problem. 

[Sentinal]

Are you saying that if they really believe they will be safe out on the street they will be? What if the criminal absolutely believes that they will be successful? Who's belief wins?

[Spawn_Xe]

back on topic... lol... i took knights advice and just put up a front about all this neg. Ignored it as irrational fear and it pretty much went away

[bourkesta]

Id say go and get some reiki done or some other kind of energy healing if you find that you have been touched by this negative energy. The best way to avoid negative energys is not to give into fear which can be hard as atm the human species is a fear conditioned race. Next time you get negative energies realise that energy as being a darker part of your TRUE(god) self and send love and light towards it and wish it the best, thats how you deal with neg's. In regaurds to the water thing, it would probabbly work, but its not the water that stops them its the thought of doing al that stuff and the thought puts the block there. I suggest before anyone tried to project you ask for the support of your guides and ask them to form a protective cirlce of light around you, normally keeps the negs away. But if you feel like you have negative energy then go get reiki, your not possesed or anything you just have like a darker energy residue left over in your chakras.

love n light

[Archanon]

Have any of you heard of frank keppler? He's robert monroes assistant, i believe he said in all his travels it is more or less us that create them.

[Selski]

Have any of you heard of frank keppler? He's robert monroes assistant, i believe he said in all his travels it is more or less us that create them.

Frank Kepple.  He's one of the more respected members on the Pulse.  He isn't Monroe's assistant.  He never even visited TMI (The Monroe Institute). 

Whatever Frank has said, that is based on his belief.  I do understand that Frank could be seen as a "guru" in some ways (even though that was the last thing he wanted folks to believe about himself). 

Frank only gave us his experiences based on his perception/thoughts/beliefs about life in general.  For instance, he was utterly anti-religion (any religion).  And anti-mystical, which is all very well, but if all 'this stuff' turns out to be religion-based or "mystical" then Frank's abhorrent belief (or anti-belief) got in the way of the reality.  If you get what I mean.

What I mean is take Frank's stuff with a LOT of respect, but also as simply another persons viewpoint, nothing more.

And all the above is actually said with a whole load of love for the man, Frank.  I knew him well (never met him, but corresponded privately with him for a long time).



Sarah

[Archanon]

where did you hear that? robert monroe's assistant...I love it. HA.

Oh on abovetopsecret, one of the posters mentioned he was his assistance or confidant. It's a conspiracy site, they have alot of strange things on there like topics including bases on the moon and soul collecters that are built by aliens. But from what i've heard about the man, he seems pretty decent. I've gone through thousands of astral projection books and message boards, and all they talked about was demon this and negative entitiy that. And saying that you can die in the astral and what not, and not really taking a more experimental/ research side torward it. It's nice to get that cleared up

[Jelal67]

last week I had an intersting experince that taught me that the only way to combat evil is through fearlessness.

[Archanon]

last week I had an intersting experince that taught me that the only way to combat evil is through fearlessness.

Well evil is a hard one to define, considering that not all murders are evil, there actions are. Sometimes they are purely evil, the seriel murders. I've always wondered if there is true good and evil, because in reality sometimes it's just a role we play in life. And behind every action is usually a reason.

[Jelal67]

At the same time, everything is at the very least infleunced by the subjective. I suppose only we can define good and evil for ourselves, hoping the best choice is the one we all end up sharing...

[James S]

Ahhh... the old "good / Evil" debate again.

It's too subjective to pin down.

Hitler was absolutely convinced he was good, and doing the right thing for his people.
While most people see him, or more to the point - his actions as evil, there is no doubt that if you step back and look at the bigger picture, his actions did indeed bring about much good. He shook the world up, and brought it to a place where the world would not tolerate such racist behaviour again. Also, Hitler would not have been able to act the way he did if he did not have a following of people who thought the same as he did.

His actions were not evil, they were a catalyst needed to bring about a change in people's thinking. If that catalyst did not come when it did, chances are we would have seen even more horrific acts of racism.

[LittleJoe]

It is said that sometimes when you begin to truly learn more about yourself (spiritually) and you just begin energy work/AP, all the feelings and thoughts you have surpressed come out. Sort of a cleaning of the mind/soul.

[violetlight]

i also had an interesting experience this week.  for the last year and a half ive been having a reoccurring dream/projection/obe/dream paralysis where someone comes and tries to take my energy.  its usually in the form of an invasion, and is quite painful.

this week i OBE'ed from a lucid dream, and started walking around my house.  i came across this man, who started trying to suck energy out of my ear.  i started my usual thing of pretending to send him love and compassion, but reallly just wanting him to get the hell away from me lol.

but then i started sending him reiki- and he disappeared.

i recommend if anyone has problems with this kind of thing- take your 'self' out of the equation, and just be a channel for pure, unadulterated love and compassion.

It is said that sometimes when you begin to truly learn more about yourself (spiritually) and you just begin energy work/AP, all the feelings and thoughts you have surpressed come out. Sort of a cleaning of the mind/soul.

TOTALLY!

all these things we encounter are aspects of ourselves, and if we learn to love them we can bring this love and accpetance and healing into our waking lives.

peace,
violet

[sk8chik]

There's no question that negs exist in my mind because I've experienced them and interacted with them, AND have gotten rid of the ones attacking me. And eventually the way I did it was after protecting myself with white light, positive energy, and MOVING ON IN MY LIFE, I eventually stopped thinking about them and haven't experienced them since. As for what they are, I believe some are souls that didn't make it into the next world, weren't able to follow the light for whatever, and after leaving their physical bodies, are still on this planet, and some of these use their anger from this to attack humans who DO have bodies. The other kind (I'm not sure which there is more of) are those that are created through human minds through human beliefs. If enough people really believe that demons exist, those demons will manifest.

Anyway work with white light, and if you're delving more into spirituality (reading books, looking at forums online, etc...) try to reintegrate yourself into the real world. I think the most important thing when dealing with this kind of stuff is to be very grounded.