philosophy and drugs

[psychonaut]

If I had a drug of choice it would be DMT, even though I've never done it.

shrooms are shrooms...just ate 10 grams of amanitas combined with 4.5 grms psilo at the Great Sand Dunes National Park last weekened. nothing to say about that.

My opinion on drugs is to explore what they do to you if you're at all curious...but remember that your trip is temporary...and KEEP IT NATURAL!  All in all I think drugs are stupid, and you are what you eat.

I've quit all that stupid excrement for months now...with the exception of the elusive mushie trip last weekend. I'm better off without drugs. It's also kind of sad to see how some of my friends have changed over the years...especially the ones who identify themselves as being "druggies."

But yeah, DMT...there you go. That's what I want.

(man i just wasted some sleep time typing this, hope somebody learned something, anything. Why did I type this post? This was in no way philosophical. Ok...I think, therefore, I'm going to bed.)

[jilola]

A drug can do a couple of things of value:

It can show you the goal yet not take you there.
It can show who you are with respect to the goal yet not change you to attain that goal.
It can show you the side that you'd wish you didnät have yet it cannot take that side away.

Taking any drug is a choice that needs to be made with your full attention and all of the wisdom you can muster. The taking of a drug is like walking a narrow path; on one side is trouble, on the other hints of solutions. You make the difference.

There's no need for any mind altering substance. If you decide to use one then make sure you:

Know yourself
Know the substance
Know where you're going


2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Mydral]

Look drugs are bad because of the life you live once you take them, a life of crime.
Adding to this you get into this spiral where you take heavier and heavier drugs. I know that some of you will now say: No I am taking it responsibly. Well good for you, lots of others aren't.

Drugs destroy society.

Secondly, what makes you guys so sure that your acctually going on an astral travel etc. with them? Your hallucinating..... and thoughts controll hallucinations to some extend. So if you believe it will happen strongly, you will hallucinate about it.

Look stay away from drugs, then you won't become addicted physically or mentally. If you want to AP or anything like that do it the natural way.

[MisterJingo]

Drugs are something which has been with mankind from its earliest origins. Drug use is found in the animal kingdom. Drug use might have been the genesis of our mystical experiences and religions and the foundation stones of society (certain theories link early mushroom experiences with language construction). Drugs do not destroy society; current drug education and enforcement create the problems. Countries which have responsible drug policies which don't treat users like criminals have little of the problems the countries have who actively enforce zero tolerance drug policies.
I am very much of the opinion people should be free to experience any mind state they want as long as they do so responsibly. This means education not enforcement.
Regarding AP and OBEs, their cause is chemical (drug) based in the brain. I'm not saying this means such experiences are confined to the brain, but they might be a physical trigger to induce such experiences. Many of the drugs which can cause hallucinations are actually clear of the brain once those hallucinations start (they act as triggers for natural processes, not the cause).
The drug issue is not a simple one and it won't ever go away. Problems arise from misuse – which in no small part is the fault of bad and lying drug enforcement propaganda. Many lives could be saved with education.
Perhaps this place isn't the best forum for drug discussions because most people either know very little about them, or are very biased against them from a lifetime of negative reinforcement. Add to this the hazards of allowing drug based discussion and the moderations problems of that.
Either way, it seems nothing productive comes of it on the whole – just arguments.

[jilola]

Look drugs are bad because of the life you live once you take them, a life of crime.

ONly because the substances have been deemed illegal. Nothing in them inherently causes one to commit crime.
Excepting alcohol which has a nasty history oif causing violence.

Adding to this you get into this spiral where you take heavier and heavier drugs.

The gateway theory has been disproved several time and no credible study supports it.

I know that some of you will now say: No I am taking it responsibly. Well good for you, lots of others aren't.

Correct. There are always people who go overboard. Putting everybody in jail won't change that.

Drugs destroy society.

Incorrect. Drug laws destroy society.

Secondly, what makes you guys so sure that your acctually going on an astral travel etc. with them?

Nothing. Some people apparently think they will. In reality they won't.
What they may get out of it is a different perspective to their consciousness and personality which may in turn help in the AP business. Definitely it is likely to help them see the suppressed parts of their personality.

Your hallucinating..... and thoughts controll hallucinations to some extend. So if you believe it will happen strongly, you will hallucinate about it.

This is possible. But this also is applicable to meditation.

Look stay away from drugs, then you won't become addicted physically or mentally.

Agreed. Though if anyone is determined to use a drug then let that person first have a handle on their normal state person and secondly have a  thorough knowledge pof the drug they are about to use.
AFter that thge only requirement is that the person takes full responsibility of any F!#¤ up they cause while under the influence.

If you want to AP or anything like that do it the natural way.

That would be the best way.


2cents & L&L
Jouni

[EqualThoughts]

I'd just like to say that there is no way of being self reliant, because we are all reliant on our environment in order to sustain ourselves with life. we are a part of the earth, a part of one organism that is complex beyond comrehension. we rely on the food and water of the earth to keep us alive, if u think of it this way, anything you eat or consume in some way can be considered a drug, certain plant or animal material when consumed will have an affect on you in some way, including keeping you alive. they all have different effects, it is biased to say that some are bad and some are good. this is just another good and evil scenario, which results from a survival drive, what some people believe is the best way to survive, they will enforce with their beliefs because they believe that it is the best way. there is no real way of saying which is the best way to survive until you have explored all the options, and even then it is impossible. we are just organisms part of a bigger organism, what does it matter that a few of us will consume certain elements in our total environsment. they are there for those who choose to. biases have their place only in the mind of the individual.

-Thoughts

[DrQuickbeam]

OK, this thread started off on an uninformed foot. While there is not a lot of research out there on the effects of entheogenic medicine (due to prohibition), there is enough to know a bit about how it works.

Weed stimulates unused parts of the brain, and induces stronger, faster thinking which is also much more vivid and clear than normal. Weed does NOT kill braincells, pretty much most of the rumors behind marijuana being harmful are fake.

Cannabis does not necessarily stimulate unused parts of the brain. The most neuro-active chemical in Cannabis is THC.  THC docks on the neuron receptor site for naturally occurring chemical called anandamine (literally "bliss molecule").  So the brain thinks that THC is anandamine, and lets it bind to neurons in its place.  Chocolate also has chemicals which bind to the anandamine site.

The effects of this are widely varied from one persons psychology and biology to the next. There is a shift in state of consciousness, which is more or less overwhelming depending on the strength of the dose and the persons ability to mindfully observe shifts in consciousness.  You can then count on the medicine to have a sensitizing effect.  If you are comfortable and relaxed, you will feel VERY comfortable and relaxed.  If you are nervous or paranoid you will feel VERY nervous or paranoid.  If you are doing energy work, you will be delighted to feel the textures and movements of your energy in amazing new ways.

It may cause you to use your brain/mind in ways that are not typical (aka teach you things), but that all depends on what the state reminds you of and what associations are triggered. If it makes you feel stupid or slow, then you're not interfacing with the state efficiently and should probably avoid it.  In my experience, cannabis can be mind expanding, and show me certain limitations and abilities I would not have otherwise noticed.  However, once you have learned all you can from the state, yet you still keep accessing it out of comfort and familiarity, it can then become simply a habitual vice.

You must use these substances with respect. I cannot stress this enough. It is wise to interface with them using an animistic/shamanistic mentality, where each of these medicines has a spirit that can teach you or torture you, depending on how humble and respectful you are in your interactions.

As for the health implications, THC has shown to reduce tumors, reduce pain, increase appetite, help glaucoma, treat depression, and reduce and prevent Alzheimer's (that one was just published last month http://www.nerdshit.com/wordpress/?p=2233).  Ganja does NOT kill brain cells. There has strangely never been a case of lung cancer or emphysema related to the smoking of cannabis, it has even been shown to help lung cancer, however I can tell you from personal experience that it may reduce lung capacity.

LSD directly stimulates the pineal gland, artificially 'oppening' the third eye.

LSD DOES NOT ACT ON THE PINEAL ORGAN! LSD is a serotonin agonist, which, similar to THC, means that the brain thinks that the LSD molecule is serotonin and allows it to dock on serotonin receptor sites on individual neurons.  Serotonin's role in the brain is very complex and not completely understood, but has been linked with: mood, sleep, anxiety, sexuality, and perception.  So basically, if you take LSD, you are experiencing reality through the filter of LSD rather than the 'natural' filter of serotonin. The same goes for mushrooms (psilocybin) and DMT.

Serotonin, psilocybin, LSD and DMT are all part of the tryptamine chemical family.  The other chemical family for entheogens is the phenthylamines, which includes dopamine, mescaline (from peyote), and MDMA (ecstasy).

By the way, 'entheogen' is the newly accepted word for 'psychedelics' aka 'hallucinogens'.  Entheogen is Latin for... "en" = inside "theo" = divinity "gen" = substance ... so "substance which evokes inner divinity".

All of these chemicals (outlined and tested by Alexander Shulgin) are powerful mind-altering agents.  What you get out of the experience is highly dependant on Set and Setting.  Your Set is your psychology, biology, past experiences, and the why you are tripping etc. Your Setting is whom your with and where you are.

On the rare occasion that I imbibe one of these medicines I tend to fast for a day, to allow for contemplation and sanctification.  I then ask the spirit of the medicine to help me answer the questions I come with (or to teach me something new, or to help me work through a blockage or help me integrate something into my personality) and take care of me and safely guide me through the experience.  Then I dose. And try and stay as mindful and grounded as possible. After the experience I thank the medicine.

These experiences can help show you techniques or knock down inhibitions/blockages which may be hindering your energy/dreaming/projecting practice.  However, they are not good to induce projection per say.  Not to say that it won't happen, just that it is harder to control and more something you witness for educational purposes.  If you are building your experience for any of these practices, medicine is no short cut.

Logic was right in that if you have a genetic predisposition towards psychosis in your family, an entheogenic experience can trigger it. I highly recommend that you are emotionally stable and well grounded mentally before even attempting to trip.  These experiences can range from mild euphoria to an entirely out of body vision quest where you are put against your deepest fears and may even be asked to let go of your ego, which can be extremely painful for most people.

What Logic means when he says that DMT is "the spirit molecule in which life enters and exits this third dimension." Is that DMT has been shown to secrete from the Pineal organ which is an endocrine gland located in the center of the brain.  DMT induces intense visionary experiences, and some think that since the Pineal gland releases DMT into the brain fluid during such events as birth and death, that it is involved when the 'spirit' enters and leaves the body. I have no opinion on this personally, for me these are subjective experiences that we must be prepared to deal with when they arrive.  If there is a chemical process behind the experience, it doesn't really matter when its happening.

This is a very, very limited introduction and many details have been omitted for the sake of brevity.  However, in conclusion, these chemicals are not bad or good. It is all in how the subject uses them.  They are tools or allies by which we can learn a bit about the inner dimensions of the Kosmos. The experiences are highly subjective, so even if you have a negative disposition to the word 'drug' you might go into the experience with your defenses up, aka with fear. That is why I call them medicine. You must interface with them with a steady, open mind and a strong, open heart and be very critical as to what is helpful enough to take back and integrate into your waking life and what is simply 'noise'.

If you are educated (www.erowid.com), and safe, medicine can be very helpful.