12/23/2012

[steveb]

hi bitsmart
        Came across your post re: End of World ,the link below is an interesting short read. "it's a bit out there" ,but who knows?

         [http://home.earthlink.net/~gnosisla/March4.html]

all the best Steve

[lateralus897]

I found the article interesting, but it was way too negative. People always seem to associate Armageddon with death and destruction, when in fact it's going to be the most beautiful thing any of us has ever experienced. It's not going to be easy to get there, there's going to be chaos, but we will unite.

[General-Army]

Technology doesnt make our race act as individuals. There will always be groups of friends, and in times, big groups of people act together. If you think about it, you can sort of blame Religion on both seperating and joining people. I dont hate muslims or anything, i have 2 muslim friends, but arent muslims susposed to make the whole world muslim with a revolt?

Every man has their fear of dieing, whether it be of pain or not knowing where you are going, however, mine is the family, memories, and good times i leave behind.

[fredhedd]

w/ reguard to the natural evolving process... we are the only species on the planet to be able to have cracked the genome. the n atural selection process was bound to happen. i was thinking that this was wrong in a way too until one of my friends pointed out that we evolved to that point. as humans we can only evolve so far w/out the use of technology. we are not where we could be w/out the use of technology but, if we were at that point, then would the next step be? it's possible that cracking the genome is natural and everthing is following as it should. i dont know where i stand on this but i think this is a good point that hasnt been brought up yet on a  good topic.

"once i knew a man who looked like a chihuahua, so i pet him ."

[__--nezabaleta--__]

As a matter of fact the catastrophe predicted by mayan calendar refers to Gregorian Calendar, that´s say 2012 are equal to 2003.
For that reason I suggest you look at http://www.prep2003.com
There you can find all that you need for to save you.
Sincerely....
N. E. Zabaleta
nezabaleta@ciudad.com.ar

[__--nezabaleta--__]

ERRATUM !!!
At my prior message, where it says "nezabaleta@ciudad.com.ar" it must say "nora_elisa_zabaleta@ciudad.com.ar".

Apologies..!

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Violet:
I think the change will be in consciousness.  My feeling is that mankind will be forced to realize that thoughts are things. As people start picking up more and more on others thoughts and feelings it will be those that have learned self mastery, humility, self respect and respect for others that will be well liked.  People will become more and more aware of the subtle ways in which they are being controlled by others (the insincerity of some people) and many will start breaking free of these bonds.  

What a lovely post. One of the best (and most accurate) I have ever read.

Thank you.

Yours,
Frank

[Lysear]

these are great debates. i think the most interesting one raised here is the is science progressive or destructive. I havent made up my thus far. consider the progressive aspect of science we're using it now! the world is at your fingertips, also medcine people who design computers, teach, or make great contributions to mankind may have died 200 hundred years ago from influenza!
 on the other hand science makes mankind greedy, lazy, selfish etc in so many ways.

do they balance each other out?

just my 20 quids worth

[kirstiekater]

We were watching a video in history class that told us about this.  If the world does end then or anytime really, I wouldn't mind.  I would rather die with the whole world than have loved ones die while I'm still alive or die while loved ones are still alive.  That way, I won't have to grieve over the deaths or they wouldn't have to grieve over my death.  Ya know?

[cainam_nazier]

"i think the most interesting one raised here is the is science progressive or destructive. "

 As with all things you can not have one with out the other.  Atomic power which gave birth to the Atom Bomb and the Nuclear Power Plant.  One a weapon of mass destruction and the other a form of cheap clean energy with limited depletion of natural resources.  The automobile which has allowed us to expand our who world, we can go further, faster, but we create things like smog and acid rain by doing so.
 Even in resposible hands technology is dangerous.  Science does, has, and will continue to bring the human race closer to thier dreams.  The good ones and the bad ones.

Balance in all things.



David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
http://www.prepaidliving.com/vip/David127385

[kakkarot]

lysear: i must disagree with you when you say "on the other hand science makes mankind greedy, lazy, selfish etc in so many ways". mankind has always had greedy, lazy, selfish, and such people. science has merely given them more ways to be greedy, lazy, selfish, etc. but science has also given the good people of the world more ways to be helpful, cooperative, healing, etc.

science is a tool, and as the saying goes, "Don't blame the tools".

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[auraseer]

Hi,
you guys should really check this out... http://www.2012.com.au .

20+ people have been off SICK just in year 8 today. This would never normally happen. 5 more people complained about headaches.

Cya,
auraseer.

Please visit my website at http://www.geocities.com/kitechniques
****************************
Thou rage overcomes, Thy fate is near.

The energy is inside all of us... you just have to let it out.
****************************

[straydog2012]

Hi folks,

The web's most complete, up-to-date data-base on 2012, called 2012:Dire Gnosis, is athttp://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk

For an article called The Astral Transition, at the above site, go to http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/ast.htm

straydog2012

[Celeste]

The Mayan Calendar - The World Will Not End
>
> CARLOS BARRIOS was born into a Spanish family on El Altiplano, the
> highlands of Guatemala. His home was in Huehuetenango, also the
> dwelling place of the Maya Mam tribe. With other Maya and other indigenous tradition keepers, the Mam carry part of the old ways on Turtle Island North America). They are keepers of time, authorities on remarkable calendars that are ancient, elegant and relevant.
> Mr. Barrios is a historian, an anthropologist and investigator. After studying with traditional elders for 25 years since the age of 19, he has also became a Mayan Ajq'ij, a ceremonial priest and spiritual guide, Eagle Clan.
>
Years ago, along with his brother, Gerardo, Carlos initiated an
> investigation into the different Mayan calendars. He studied with many teachers. He says his brother Gerardo interviewed nearly 600 traditional Mayan elders to widen their scope of knowledge.
>
> "Anthropologists visit the temple sites," Mr. Barrios says, "and read the steles and inscriptions and make up stories about the Maya, but they do not read the signs correctly. It's just their imagination... Other people write about prophecy in the name of the Maya. They say that the world will end in December 2012. The Mayan elders are angry with this. The world will not end. It will be transformed. The indigenous have the calendars, and know how to accurately interpret it, not others."
>
> The Mayan Calendars comprehension of time, seasons, and cycles has proven itself to be vast and sophisticated. The Maya understand 17 different  calendars, some of them charting time accurately over a span of more than ten million years. The calendar that has steadily drawn global attention since 1987 is called the Tzolk'in or Cholq'ij. Devised ages ago and based  on the cycle of the Pleiades, it is still held as sacred. With the indigenous calendars, native people have kept track of important turning points in history. For example, the daykeepers who study the calendars identified an important day in the year One Reed, Ce Acatal, as it was called by the Mexicans. That was the day when an important ancestor was prophesied to return, "coming like a butterfly." In the western calendar, the One Reed date correlates to Easter Sunday, April 21, 1519 the day that Hernando Cortez and his fleet of 11 Spanish galleons arrived from the East
> at what is today called Vera Cruz, Mexico.
>
> When the Spanish ships came toward shore, native people were waiting and watching to see how it would go. The billowing sails of the ships did indeed remind the scouts of butterflies skimming the ocean surface. In this manner was a new era initiated, an era they had anticipated through their calendars. The Maya termed the new era the Nine Bolomtikus, or nine Hells of 52 years each. As the nine cycles unfolded, land and freedom were taken from the native people. Disease and disrespect dominated. What began with the arrival of Cortez, lasted until August 16, 1987 - a date many people recall as Harmonic Convergence. Millions of people took advantage of that date to make ceremony in sacred sites, praying for a smooth transition
> to a new era, the World of the Fifth Sun.
>
> From that 1987 date until now, Mr. Barrios says, we have been in a time when the right arm of the materialistic world is disappearing, slowly but inexorably. We are at the cusp of the era when peace begins, and people live in harmony with Mother Earth. We are no longer in the World of the Fourth Sun, but we are not yet in the World of the Fifth Sun. This is the time in-between, the time of transition.
>
> As we pass through transition there is a colossal, global convergence of environmental destruction, social chaos, war, and ongoing Earth changes.
>
> All this, Mr. Barrios says, was foreseen via the simple, spiral mathematics of the Mayan calendars. "It will change," Mr. Barrios observes. "Everything will change." He said Mayan Daykeepers view the Dec. 21, 2012 date as a rebirth, the start of the World of the Fifth Sun. It will be the start of a  new era resulting from and signified by the solar meridian crossing the galactic equator, and the earth aligning itself with the center of the galaxy. At sunrise on December 21, 2012 for the first time in 26,000 years the Sun rises to conjunct the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. This cosmic cross is considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred Tree, The Tree of Life, a tree remembered in all the world's spiritual traditions. Some observers say this alignment with the heart of
> the galaxy in 2012 will open a channel for cosmic energy to flow through the earth, cleansing it and all that dwells upon it, raising all to a higher level of vibration.
>
> This process has already begun, Mr. Barrios suggested. >
> "Change is accelerating now, and it will continue to accelerate." If the people of the earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape, without having destroyed too much of the Earth, Mr. Barrios said, we will rise to a new, higher level.  But to get there we must transform enormously powerful forces that seek to block the way.
>
> A Picture of the Road Ahead
> From his understanding of the Mayan tradition and the calendars, Mr. Barrios offered a picture of where we are at and what may lie on the road ahead: The date specified in the calendar Winter Solstice in the year 2012 does not mark the end of the world. Many outside people writing about the Mayan calendar sensationalize this date, but they do not know. The ones who know are the indigenous elders who are entrusted with keeping the tradition.
>
> "Humanity will continue," he contends, "but in a different way.  Material structures will change. From this we will have the opportunity to be more human." We are living in the most important era of the Mayan calendars and prophecies. All the prophecies of the world, all the traditions, are converging now. There is no time for games. The spiritual ideal of this era is action. Many powerful souls have reincarnated in this era, with a lot of power. This is true on both sides, the light and the dark. High magic is at work on both sides.  Things will change, but it is up to the people
> how difficult or easy it is for the changes to come about. The economy now is a fiction. The first five-year stretch of transition from August 1987 to August 1992 was the  beginning of the destruction of the material world. We have progressed ten years deeper into the transition phase by now, and many of the so-called
> sources of financial stability are in fact hollow. The banks are weak. This is a delicate moment for them. They could crash globally if we don't pay attention. If the banks crash ... then we will
> be forced to rely on the land and our skills. The monetary systems will be in chaos, and we must then rely on our direct relationship with the Earth for our food and shelter. The North and South Poles are both breaking up.
> The level of the water in the oceans is going to rise. But at the same time land in the ocean, especially near Cuba, is also going to rise.
>
> A Call for Fusion
> As he met with audiences in Santa Fe, Mr. Barrios told a story about the most recent Mayan New Year ceremonies in Guatemala. He said that one respected Mam elder, who lives all year in a solitary mountain cave, journeyed to Chichicastenango to speak with the people at the ceremony. The elder delivered a simple, direct message. He called for human beings to come together in support of life and light. Right now each person and group is going his or her own way. The elder of the mountains said there is hope if the people of the light can come together and unite in some way.
>
> Reflecting on this, Mr. Barrios explained: "We live in a world of polarity:
> day and night, man and woman, positive and negative. Light and darkness need each other. They are a balance. Just now the dark side is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy. They are working in many ways so that we will be unable to connect with the spiral Fifth World in 2012."
>
> "On the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no single focus."
>
> As Mr. Barrios sees it, the dark side works to block fusion through denial and materialism. It also works to destroy those who are working with the light to get the Earth to a higher level. They like the energy of the old, declining Fourth World, the materialism. They do not want it to change.
>
> They do not want fusion. They want to stay at this level, and are afraid of  the next level.  The dark power of the declining Fourth World cannot be destroyed or overpowered. It's too strong and clear for that, and that is the wrong  strategy. The dark can only be transformed when confronted with simplicity and open-heartedness. This is what leads to fusion, a key concept for the World of the Fifth Sun.
>
> Mr. Barrios said the emerging era of the Fifth Sun will call attention to a much-overlooked element. Whereas the four traditional elements of earth, air, fire and water have dominated various epochs in the past, there will be a fifth element to reckon with in the time of the Fifth Sun: ether.  The dictionary defines ether as the rarefied element of the Heavens. Ether is a medium. It permeates all space and transmits waves of energy in a wide range of frequencies, from cell phones to human auras. What is "ethereal" is related to the regions beyond earth: the heavens.
>
> Ether the element of the Fifth Sun is celestial and lacking in material substance, but is no less real than wood, stone or flesh. "Within the context of ether there can be a fusion of the polarities," Mr. Barrios  said. "No more darkness or light in the people, but an uplifted fusion. But  right now the realm of darkness is not interested in this. They are organized to block it. They seek to unbalance the Earth and its environment so we will be unready for the alignment in 2012. We need to  work together for peace, and balance with the other side. We need to take care of the Earth that feeds and shelters us. We need to put our entire mind and heart
> into pursuing unity and fusion now, to confront the other side and preserve life."
>
> To be Ready for this Moment in History Mr. Barrios told his audiences in Santa Fe that we are at a critical moment of world history. "We are disturbed," he said. "We can't play anymore. Our planet can be renewed or ravaged. Now is the time to awaken and take action."
>
> "Everyone is needed. You are not here for no reason. Everyone who is here now has an important purpose. This is a hard, but a special time. We have the opportunity for growth, but we must be ready for this moment in history."
>
> Mr. Barrios offered a number of suggestions to help people walk in balance through the years ahead. "The prophesied changes are going to happen," he said "but our attitude and actions determine how harsh or mild they are."
> We need to act, to make changes, and to elect people to represent us who understand and who will take political action to respect the earth.
> Meditation and spiritual practice are good, but also action. It's very important to be clear about who you are, and also about your relation to the Earth.
>
> Develop yourself according to your own tradition and the call of your heart. But remember to respect differences, and strive for unity. Eat wisely. A lot of food is corrupt in either subtle or gross ways. Pay attention to what you are taking into your body. Learn to preserve food, and to conserve energy.  Learn some good breathing techniques, so you have mastery of your breath.  
>
> Be clear. Follow a tradition with great roots. It is not important what tradition, your heart will tell you, but it must have great roots. We live in a world of energy. An important task at this time is to learn to sense or see the energy of everyone and everything: people, plants, animals. This becomes increasingly important as we draw close to the World of the Fifth  Sun, for it is associated with the element ether - the realm where energy lives and weaves.
>
> Go to the sacred places of the earth to pray for peace, and have respect for the Earth which gives us our food, clothing, and shelter. We need to reactivate the energy of these sacred places. That is our work.
>
> According to Mr. Barrios' reading of the Mayan calendar, if war happens in November 2002 or after, then it's bad, but not catastrophic. But if it happens between April and November 2003, it will be catastrophic. Really bad. It could eventually result in the death of two-thirds of humanity. "So stay active," he said. "If we are active, we can transform the planet. The elders watch to see what happens." Many Mayan elders and knowledge keepers may be eliminated in the next few years. For the first half of the current Katun (20-year period) the dark side has a lot of power. But that will pass
> 3 to 4 years from now. The tide can turn. Amazing things are going to happen.
>
> One simple but effective prayer technique is to light a white or baby-blue colored candle. Think a moment in peace. Speak your intention to the flame and send the light of it on to the leaders who have the power to make war or peace.
>
>
> We Have Work to Do
>
>
> According to Mr. Barrios this is a crucially important moment for humanity, and for earth. Each person is important. If you have incarnated into this era, you have spiritual work to do balancing the planet. He said the elders have opened the doors so that other races can come to the Mayan world to receive the tradition. The Maya have long appreciated and respected that there are other colors, other races, and other spiritual systems. "They know," he said, "that the destiny of the Mayan world is related to the destiny of the whole world."
>
> "The greatest wisdom is in simplicity," Mr. Barrios advised before leaving Santa Fe. "Love, respect, tolerance, sharing, gratitude, forgiveness.  It's not complex or elaborate. The real knowledge is free. It's encoded in your DNA. All you need is within you. Great teachers have said that from the beginning. Find your heart, and you will find your way."
> ---
>
> Carlos Barrios is the author of Kam Wuj: El Libro del Destino, a book published in Spanish that explores Mayan teachings. He is looking for a way to have the book translated and published in English. Mr. Barrios can be  contacted via Saq1 Be1 -- Organization for Mayan and Indigenous Spiritual
> Studies: HCR 72, Box 142, Ribera, NM 87560 USA
>
>
> http://www.sacredroad.org
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> The Prophets Conference
> Invites You to Join
> MAYAN ELDER HUNBATZ MEN
> For The
> REENCOUNTER OF ANCESTRAL WISDOM
> Spring Equinox - March 20-27, 2003
> Merida and the Ancient Mayan Sacred Sites - Yucatan, Mexico
> This week of teaching and ceremony and initiation conducted by Elder
> Hunbatz Men and his party
> is being held in conjunction with the international gathering, the:
> 5TH RE-UNION OF INDIGENOUS PRIESTS AND ELDERS OF AMERICA.
> Information - http://www.greatmystery.org/reencounter.html
>
> "The time has arrived for us the natives of the four cardinal points, to begin teaching our wisdom, which comes from the cosmos, in the way it was taught to us by our ancestors, the Mayas, Hopis, Incas, Aztecs, Tihuanakos, and others, who lived in harmony with our Mother Earth for many thousands of years." This will be the fifth prophetic gathering of indigenous priests  and elders from the Americas and will be the fulfillment found in the Prophetic Mayan
> book of the "CHILAM BALAM OF CHUMAYEL."
>

[DjM]

quote:Originally posted by Violet


I think the change will be in consciousness.  My feeling is that mankind will be forced to realize that thoughts are things. As people start picking up more and more on others thoughts and feelings it will be those that have learned self mastery, humility, self respect and respect for others that will be well liked.  People will become more and more aware of the subtle ways in which they are being controlled by others (the insincerity of some people) and many will start breaking free of these bonds.  A very positive look at the future...yes.  However, for others it will not be so positive.  Those that insist on controlling and manipulating and those that decide to stay in a victum role will not only experience this negative environment more intensely but they well even 'see' to their horror the product of this type of thought pattern, more intensely.  

Change will be the only constant but will ensure that people undergo some of the greatest spiritual growths ever.  Even right now our parents wonder how we handle such constant and relentless change in technology and learning....we will wonder the same of our children.  It will only get more not less.  The great thing about constant change is that it provides that little extra something that brings things to the surface so we can not hide them from others or much more importantly we can not hide them from ourselves. External change forces internal change.

Love and Light to the One and All,
Violet

Violet,

Esoteric studies and spiritual research support your claims.  

Most likely, people will misinterpret the events that lead to these changes as they did around the year 1000.  More specifically, they will attempt to match spiritual signs with material objects.  Most of the time, this promotes misunderstanding(s).

Since 1413 we have been in the 5th post-Atlantean period.  This period will last 2,160 years and will end in the year 3573.  Hence we are really at the beginnning of our period, and in its course a great deal will happen through the development of spiritual science.  All this, however, can only reveal itself gradually, step by step.

[Epsilon]

Yeah I think a lot of people misinterpret the 2012 "prophecy"  If it is true, it doesn't mean the end as in death, but the end of the current WAY of life (in a good way).  Basically it will be when Earth acends to the 5th dimension and all sorts of information that supposedly has been hidden from us will be revealed.  Ex: 45 books from the Bible, entire sections from the Declaration of Independence...
Also supposedly the Sun is changing from Hydrogen to Helium which will make nuclear weapons duds and Xenon gas will start forming in our atmosphere which will supposedly give us back a lot of our abilities we once had.

It would be nice... but who knows if it's all true.  Guess we just live life to fullest till then, and then we'll see what happens!

[mojojojo]

hey! 12/23/2012 is my 24th b-day! and I was born in 88! thats kinda cool ain't it! ^_^

[Squeek]

I read about this date in history....  Supposed to be the end of the world, and the Mayans havent been wrong yet.

It actually scares me to know this information.  It correlates exactly to my friend's "big bang" theory that the universe is reborn every thousands of years or so.  That scares me more.

~Squeek

[anjiera]

Do you really think anything is going to happen? Isure hope so! ^_^
That isn't a good thing because people will die...but life is just so boring. If anyone has any idea what's up with 12/23/2012 pleez tell me! []

[Fyrenze]

Lateralus - My birthday's the 21st, also.

That's about all I have to contribute, because I think whatever happens, most people will remain ignorant to it for a long while.

It's the human way.

][\/][

[Adam]

I think what is happening is a deep cleansing of the earth. About six-nine months ago, I was asking a lot of question of myself about the future, the New World Order, terrorism, etc. and I had two dreams that answered some of my questions (well, my personal relation to these issues).

The first was, I was standing on a balcony - and I was looking down on the earth. It was a deep red, and I could not see the continents. There was this incredibly deep and powerful feeling that was present, like a very deep feeling of anger, but impersonal. Now, this was the earth, but it I was also like I was looking down on myself.

Then my vision 'zoomed' into one part of the earth (which was myself as well) and I could see an oil rig being destroyed - there were explosions ripping through it, and people lost their lives, but that didn't seem to be important. It was like a parasite was being eradicated (which was happening to me as well).

This dream communicated to me that the earth is being cleansed on a very deep level at the moment, and I feel that I am very strongly affected by this cleansing (obviously, because I'm being cleansed as well). I feel that in my life, I am undergoing a transformation, but I cannot put my finger on it - it's happening to every part of my being.

The second dream, I think, communicated to me a warning - that danger will enter my life when I don't expect it - the only warning will be a feeling of, 'ohh... that doesn't look too good..'.  Like the first dream, it was very symbolic, there wasn't that vividness that a lot people here talk about in their visions.

I think a lot of crazy things will come to pass in the next 10 years, but this conflict in the world at the moment must deepen before we progress. I personally see terrorists as a blessing - because I think they will destroy parts of this world that need to be destroyed, otherwise the path we go down would be into complete darkness, fear and control.

My view of technology is that it doesn't matter what level of technology we have access to, but rather the spitirual advancement of the people whom have access to it.

Adam

[Tarconiss]

quote:Originally posted by lateralus897

This is in response to MJ-12. Technology can devolve humans simply because it makes our lives easier, and deters us from looking to ourselves for answers. Insetad, we look to outside sources. get it?

In my oppinion, i think that some technology does render us from progressing in one part of our existance.... but Isn't it odd how something else in our lives just happen to make a change in our life to 'make' us learn that part of our life that was once before hindered?  There are also technologies that can help us raise our spiritual existances from the depths one may have sunk to... I think that things will even out one wa yor another... notice how these prophocies are stateing that we will hit an age of enlightenment from were we are.... notice how were we are, just so happeneds to be a day and age were money, and technologies govern our societies? Things will clear up... Just don't lose sight, and always keep an open mind to things. With this, nomatter what kindof life a person lives, they'll eventually raise in existance.

[no_leaf_clover]

the topic 'demonic war' (in the metaphysical forum, maybe?) deals with some different ideas on 2012, if anyone's interested..

[Eonnn]

Well I heard something totally different!

I heard that aliens will come down to earth on December 21st 2012 (yes the 21st not the 23rd) and they will give us the 'book of knowledge'. They will teach us everything we have ever wanted to know about the universe, existence, time, space, technology, etc.

[no_leaf_clover]

the date isnt set, it could fluctuate as to what day and even what year, since it's so late in the year. i've heard everything from february to december. the orbit of nibiru can fluctuate just as a comet, or just as earth does. 2012/2013 is just a good guess based on all the prophecies/calenders/myths/biblical code/etc. i'd say the mayans are going to be most accurate though []