Dr Dean Edell OBE comments on AM radio today

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Anyone listen to Dr "Dean" Edell on AM radio? I usually catch it driving home in the evenings.

People call in questions about medical problems and Dr Dean offers very detailed answers.

Today a caller asked about OBE, and Dr Dean replied that there's a part of the brain that can be electrically stimulated to produce an OBE at any time. He then said, "so there's nothing mystical about it".  (so whatever that's supposed to mean, don't know LOL).
THEN the show suddenly cut to a commercial, Bah!

What's he talking about? He's a confirmed sceptic about things like OBE or remote viewing, but his matter of fact comment that an OBE like experience can be stimulated at anytime was very unusual for him to say on the air.

[kiwibonga]

You can be skeptical and acknowledge them as real anyway -- say that they're "all in the brain" for instance... I know most doctors think they're just strong hallucinatory episodes.

[Zante]

In regards to his comments, he's referring to research similar to that of neurologist Dr. Olaf Blanke's.

An article can be found here...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/08/MNGNELI3IO1.DTL

Here are some quotes...

There is nothing mystical about these ghostly experiences, said Peter Brugger, a neuroscientist at University Hospital in Zurich, who was not involved in the experiments but is an expert on phantom limbs, the sensation of still feeling a limb that has been amputated, and other mind-bending phenomena.

And while it may be tempting to invoke the supernatural when this body sense goes awry, he said the true explanation is a very natural one, the brain's attempt to make sense of conflicting information.

You have to take into account that this is western science and that, by nature, it is very dismissive of such concepts. While, in time, this will change, at the moment it's just dramatic irony whenever they announce something with these kinds of implications.

React however you want to it. If you've had an OOBE manifest from your pure intent then all of this is irrelivant anyway. Again, they haven't found anything. It's just pushing buttons and making forgone conclusions (followed by announcing it to the world in an endeavour to be recognised as being one of the first to research it [and therefore believing themselves to be in a position of authority]).

[catmeow]

Dr Blanke has been covered on this board quite a bit, do a search for "Blanke" and you'll find quite a few threads.  Basically, whilst stimulating the angular gyrus in an epileptic patient, he managed to induce "OBE like" sensations.  I think he has since found a second epileptic subject who also reported "OBE like" sensations.

To get this into perspective, it doesn't actually prove or disprove anything.  However, some scientists think it proves that OBE's are all in the mind.  I don't follow the reasoning myself.  Scientific proof requires much larger and better samples than two neurologically abnormal subjects, reporting sensations in an uncontrolled experiment, which has not been repeated or confirmed by any other scientists.  However this doesn't stop the media and some "scientists" from drawing unwarranted conclusions.  It seems that the burden of proof is much lower when scientists "prove" something they agree with than when others wish to prove something they don't agree with.

Here's a thread in which I critique Dr Blanke in a bit more detail:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=22481.0

[iNNERvOYAGER]

aH,  thanks very much. I bookmarked the links. Interesting, electrodes implanted INTO the brain. LOL.

Just by coincidence I just now, after typing the first sentence above, turned on the TV and  started watching the Discovery channel BIG Science special about "the essence of the neural code", and brain machine interfaces, wiring the brain up to a computer.

"The limits of non evasive control have been reached" ie, EEG interfaces, so wires in the brain are the way to go! 

WOW, that is quite a coincidence. Of course there's nothing mystical about that either, is there?

My question now is, will a cyborg wired up to computer interfaces and augmentations have a soul?
Instead of taking a smoke break,  all they have to do is push the angular gyrus button go exploring.

Decoding of neural code will lead to advanced AI and in the example of the sci-Fi artificial lifeform, the Star Trek character, Data wishes he was more human because he wants to experience OBE and the inner worlds.

[kiwibonga]

WOW, that is quite a coincidence. Of course there's nothing mystical about that either, is there?

Hehehehehe 

[catmeow]

My question now is, will a cyborg wired up to computer interfaces and augmentations have a soul

Well that's the big question isn't it.  In theory (although it's a LONG LONG way off) we could create an AI device which was able to learn and make random decisions, which might seem roughly equivalent to our own creative thought processes, but would this device be self-aware?  It might appear, to all intents and purposes, by an external human observer to be "self-aware", but that doesn't mean that an AI device actually experiences the same emotions, doubts, vulnerabilities, desires, fears, elations and dreams that we do, any more than the balls clicking away in Newton's Cradle are "self-aware".  It may just "appear" to be like a human being.  Is the "semblence" of being a human actually the same as being a human?  Or to turn the question 180 degress around, are we just machines but don't realise it?

[David Warner]

It would be great if the AP members could spend a hour with Dr. Dean on his radio station explaining these OBE's, validations, studies, NDE's and open up this as a bigger reality than a stimulation of the angular gyrus on a couple of patients.

Hmmm, maybe I need to do another radio interview..

It's interesting to hear about the NDE's from all walks of life and age. Especially with the children who report many of their experiences w/o being influenced with life drama, worldly influcenes, work, money, religion, race, or creed. To return from the NDE and present the theme as "Love, Being of Light etc.." So to dismiss this as a simple stimulation of the angular gyrus holds no weight.

Tvos

[Synergy]

I don't really believe the whole angular gyrus theory.

There are several medical conditions that mimic an OBE, at least to the doctors who are dying to prove us wrong - These are related to spacial awareness. They are dissociation/dislocation disorders. They are usually brought about by severe stress and the person feels like they are seperate from their body.  However, from what info I could find, normal body function remains active (ie they can still move)  This is not like an OBE where we lose ability to control the physical body motion while out and seem to be in sleep paralysis.

The problem I have with the angular gyrus theory is that (if I read it right) patients are awake during this electrode procedure.  Initially they are under anesthetic while the skull is opened and prepared, and then they are woke up for the electrode part.  They way I read it, was that certain parts of the brain are stimulated and while they are stimulated, the person is suposed to comment on if this is triggering a seizure.  Well, when this specific part was stimulated, she commented that she felt like she was floating out of her body.  To me, this does not sound like an OBE, but instead more like a spacial awareness thing. 

Who knows though, maybe a part of the brain (maybe even the angular gyrus) does play a role in triggering an OBE, but ultimately, I don't think they will find out what an OBE is by disecting the brain.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Hmmm, maybe I need to do another radio interview..

Whenever the subject comes up, he usually mentions a prize offer for identifying an object or information inside of a locked container. Even if the task was accomplished, I have no idea how such "proof" could be of any benefit.

I'm not sure that a normal healthy person as yourself could be trusted to verify Dr. Blanke's discovery of this peculiar phenomenon. The only people that can be trusted to accurately report these experiences are people that suffer from seisures and who require electrodes to be implanted into their brains. 

Who knows though, maybe a part of the brain (maybe even the angular gyrus) does play a role in triggering an OBE, but ultimately, I don't think they will find out what an OBE is by disecting the brain.

Probably not, but I envision that  electrode brain piercings will become fashionable around the year 2012. 
(the electrodes could have little blinking LED lights to indicate brain activity lol)

[David Warner]

Ya know whats funny? for sometime now, i've been tracking my obe validations, physical coincedences, deja-vu's.

I don't make these events, precogs, obe's, validations where I look for the proof.. it just straight out happens. There is no beating around the bush, the validation or coincedence is right on the money. And to tell me that 'all' of this is by accident.

Lately, I had a false awakening where I was talking with my wife on the phone, stating that I got the job. Prior to this event, the job I was interviewing for, the response was excellent and recruiter was excited, but not 100% solidly confirmed. Well, what do you think happened? I got the job.

Just the other week, I started watching a classic "Rambo" and the movie was filmed in Hope B.C. Canada. No biggie right! So someone wanted access to my web site, mentioned in their comments they had exp. a NDE when they were younger. So I replied back asking for more information. The lady said that she lived in Hope, B.C. Canada and also worked with hospice. Just recently, I started working with patients as a hospice volunteer. Coincedence? I get ALOT of requests asking for access to my web site and Hope, B.C. is the first...

Here's the kicker.. I've been looking for a specific screw driver, with a light attached, and magnetic antenna for zillions of years. I would go into home improvement stores, surfed on-line, checked ebay, even found the patent to the model. But I could NEVER find the screw driver.. So tonight, I go over to my brother in law's to help resolve a PC problem. I asked him for a screw driver to remove the screws from the power supply. What do you think he hands me? The screw driver that I've been looking for ages. Same exact, make, model, brand that I wanted. It was one of those moments where I had to sit down.

Two weeks ago, I interviewed at cityhall in my local neighborhood in the morning. Later that day, one of my sups asked me to pick-up a check and deposit it into a bank from a client. Note that my sup is 200 miles away and I help him with a client here in Grand Rapids. My sup pops on-line and finds the closet bank where I was located at the time. Where do you think this bank resided that he picked? Exactly across the street diagonal from city hall where I interviewed that morning 7hrs earlier. I did't tell my sup, even know where this bank was located. That is the first one he picked!

The list goes on and I can back this up. There is so much more then a dissmisal of angular gyrus theory.

Tvos

[projektr]

Synchronicity (this would be the right term i assume), happens with me very frequently.

Well we all know what synchronicity is, but do we know "why" it occurs??

[David Warner]

its more then Synchronicity, especially when obe's validate the physical.

tvos

[projektr]

Would you mind sharing OBE's you've had which validated in the physical?

It's quite fascinating when you spend a long time searching rigorously for something you desire, but you end up getting it when least expected. I know the troubles one goes through as i've had quite a few experiences. Perhaps its a universal law

[Orygbus]

the amygdala has been related to AP http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/amygdala.html

[David Warner]

projektr,

Please visit my web site, review the validation excel spreadsheet and look at the projection worksheet too under misc. All the data is there.

here's a few to get you started:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18497
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?action=search2


Like you, when I first started projecting way back in the day, I had the passion, fire and commitment to validate the experience against physical. Yes, there were a few experiences but nothing that compares to the last 1.5yrs.

A good friend of mine, we were talking the other night and we came to realization that it's how you 'open' yourself up to it. When i stopp'd validating the playing card experiment, unconditional validations started to happen. When I opened up spiritually, personal relationship to God, or loving, learning and caring for the world, not just myself
the validations, Synchronicities and tuning into my higher self has emerged.

Its good to be scientific, validate, but the angle that I approached it
from a spiritual loving point.

tvos

[projektr]

Speaking of your website tvos, i think i need an account to login. Can you can provide me one?

I shall have a look at the links. Thanks

[David Warner]

if you goto the web site, fill out the form and i will send ya the id/pass

tvos