Reasonable proof on the existance of chakras

[DarkCloud]

Okay, first let me elaborate that i'm not hear to debunk any of you or sound like a skeptic, nor am I asking you to pull out infallible, scientifically proven facts on the matter...I'm just asking, out of curiousity, how do you really know Chakras truely exist? Give me an example through either experience or expertise...

[monk-5]

read valiere v. hunt book infinite mind

she is a scientist, with nasa equipment she was able to measure someone's bio magnetic field

[Chris_com28]

I'm still waiting for one of those to become comercailly available. The thing is with her work is that there's no confirmation by other scientists and hasn't been published in any journal or anthing. It still is an interesting books though.
I think what I take as even better evidence of the chakras was by own experiences. The different feelings I've felt by emotional responses. They at least show a physiological link. Also I used to feel a strange tingling feeling in the joints of my thumb and toe. Only years later did I read that there are chakrs in those areas. I've also seem what seems to be the chakra of my hand while projecting. I was sort of half out and my hand chakra looked like a small white circle that followed my etheric hand.
Justing trying to keep this topic active. I would also like some evidence of these chakras.

[aleshah]

maybe there is a chakra, which causes emotionaly ppl to prove the existence of other chakras.
i guess chakras are living things....
maybe there is a chakra, which causes emotionaly chakras to prove the existence of other chakras,
who guess chakras are living things. the sound (resonance?)gets high moving up in physical body, but thats more a feel
like musical notes are gaining in frequency and energy, the higher centers do. i guess it is in align to universal laws or just our ears?

[MisterJingo]

read valiere v. hunt book infinite mind

she is a scientist, with nasa equipment she was able to measure someone's bio magnetic field

Valerie Hunt's work has generally been debunked. Kirlian photography has been shown to be nothing at all to do with the aura or anything paranormal. There have been threads on this previously:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/aura_cameras-t21676.0.html

[Principle]

Theres no need of scientific proof, try Chakra excerises for yourself and come to your own conclusion.
I believe it is real, and have been doing Energy Work for a long time now.

If you can seek the truth within yourself (By putting it in practice),
Why wait for the opinion of someone else? (You trust yourself more than any other person right?)

Regardless of Degrees, and/or Education, There is a difference between Theory and Practice.

For those seeking to work with Chakras, I recommend
"The Chakra Workbook: A Step-by Step Guide to Realigning Your Body's Vital Energies " by Anna Voigt.

[monk-5]

Valerie Hunt's work has generally been debunked. Kirlian photography has been shown to be nothing at all to do with the aura or anything paranormal. There have been threads on this previously:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/aura_cameras-t21676.0.html

debunked by scientists or people in general?

why?

[Chris_com28]

Because it's fun!

[DarkCloud]

Theres no need of scientific proof, try Chakra excerises for yourself and come to your own conclusion.
I believe it is real, and have been doing Energy Work for a long time now.

If you can seek the truth within yourself (By putting it in practice),
Why wait for the opinion of someone else? (You trust yourself more than any other person right?)

Regardless of Degrees, and/or Education, There is a difference between Theory and Practice.

For those seeking to work with Chakras, I recommend
"The Chakra Workbook: A Step-by Step Guide to Realigning Your Body's Vital Energies " by Anna Voigt.

I stated earlier that I'm not look for infalliable, scientific proof or whatnot. I have my beliefs, but on an objective viewpoint, I just want to know where do this beliefs come from and what causes people to continue to say they exist?  I have done my own work, and had my own experiences, but sometimes they can mislead you. Out sheer curiousity and interest I want to know WHY do YOU think chakras exist. It doesn't have to make sense to you. I have my own reasons for asking.

[MisterJingo]

debunked by scientists or people in general?

why?

Debunked by scientists and people in general.

Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines 2003).

If you search on this, you will see these cameras are more a visual interpretation (an interpretation by whoever wrote the algorithms) of galvanic skin response than a picture of an aura. THe aura on the photo is imposed due to the resitence experienced when passing a current across the skin.

[MisterJingo]

I stated earlier that I'm not look for infalliable, scientific proof or whatnot. I have my beliefs, but on an objective viewpoint, I just want to know where do this beliefs come from and what causes people to continue to say they exist?  I have done my own work, and had my own experiences, but sometimes they can mislead you. Out sheer curiousity and interest I want to know WHY do YOU think chakras exist. It doesn't have to make sense to you. I have my own reasons for asking.

Hi Darkcloud, there was a similar thread recently on this subject:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_energy_body_development/basis_of_chakras-t25387.0.html

[Zappy]

Okay, first let me elaborate that i'm not hear to debunk any of you or sound like a skeptic, nor am I asking you to pull out infallible, scientifically proven facts on the matter...I'm just asking, out of curiousity, how do you really know Chakras truely exist? Give me an example through either experience or expertise...

i have only been meditating and trying to ap for a few weeks but.

getting the feeling in you chakra's seems to be one of the easists things for me to do, i have been able to do this for all but 2 chakras which i am currently working on. so there is no doubt in my mind

trust me when you "feel" them you will know lol

[monk-5]

Debunked by scientists and people in general.
If you search on this, you will see these cameras are more a visual interpretation (an interpretation by whoever wrote the algorithms) of galvanic skin response than a picture of an aura. THe aura on the photo is imposed due to the resitence experienced when passing a current across the skin.

she didnt use camaras she used different equipment from nasa that records the biomagnetic field of things

[MisterJingo]

she didnt use camaras she used different equipment from nasa that records the biomagnetic field of things

Can you provide some more details on the technology she used? All information concerning Valerie Hunt centres around her extensive use of Kirlian photography (of which she included many photos in her book 'Infinite Mind').

[monk-5]

Can you provide some more details on the technology she used? All information concerning Valerie Hunt centres around her extensive use of Kirlian photography (of which she included many photos in her book 'Infinite Mind').

read her book ... i dont know how to explain it ... she used various technology in her experiments ... did you already read her book?

[CFTraveler]

I have a couple of questions and a comment- Gee, where to start...
(I've seen the pix but had no idea how they were done, so bear with me here):  Did she color in the galvanic skin response in to create the 'corona effect', or was the coloring based on actual emitted emf or resistance effect?
And, do you say it was 'debunked' because the visual effect is coming from her interpretation, or because the effects were based on physiological effects?
The reason I ask is because ancient 'energy' healing systems were theorized in antiquity based on their understanding of how things work (for example, indian 'chakras', chinese 'meridians', etc.)
In modern times we can correlate the endocrine system with the chakra system, and for example, Dr. Pert has correlated endorphin pathways on the body that correlate with chinese chi meridians.) 
My point is; does something have to be 'paranormal' to be valid?

[MisterJingo]

I have a couple of questions and a comment- Gee, where to start...
(I've seen the pix but had no idea how they were done, so bear with me here):  Did she color in the galvanic skin response in to create the 'corona effect', or was the coloring based on actual emitted emf or resistance effect?

Hey CF ,

As far as I am aware, the colouring is based on a set of values gained from the GSR. The colours were chosen by the creators of the kirlian cameras – although different people might use different colours. These colours are the overlaid on the photograph with software.

And, do you say it was 'debunked' because the visual effect is coming from her interpretation, or because the effects were based on physiological effects?

I mean debunked in regards to the camera actually showing a true energy field surrounding the body which matches current belief in the aura. That is, we have this energetic envelope surrounding is which displays our health, and is radiated out as an unknown energy form which can be seen by psychic people.

The reason I ask is because ancient 'energy' healing systems were theorized in antiquity based on their understanding of how things work (for example, indian 'chakras', chinese 'meridians', etc.)
In modern times we can correlate the endocrine system with the chakra system, and for example, Dr. Pert has correlated endorphin pathways on the body that correlate with chinese chi meridians.) 
My point is; does something have to be 'paranormal' to be valid?

Regarding auras, I think too little thought is given firstly to the incomprehensibly powerful computer that is the brain, and secondly, millions of years of evolution and through that, our ability to gauge detailed information about a person from even imperceptive body language changes.
I can quite easily see how the mass of information we gather unconsciously about those around us can be mapped to abstractions such as an aura colour system – and then through belief, allowing such perceptions to infringe on visual sight (I've direct experience of how such things can infringe on life from living with HPPD for the past 10 years).
I do believe the chakra system and even aura system has merits, and can be utilised to create change within. It's more working with abstractions than solid figures and values – which the brain seems to love. I just don't believe the aura system or chakra system has any reality outside of the belief we give it. But with anything, this is my belief .

[Chris_com28]

As far as I am aware, the colouring is based on a set of values gained from the GSR. The colours were chosen by the creators of the kirlian cameras – although different people might use different colours. These colours are the overlaid on the photograph with software.

#
That's no Kirlian phootography. Kirlian photography has nothing to do with Valerie Hunt.
I did a bit of a search on the Internet and can't see anything debunking her. I'm not sure about Kirlian photography at the moment. It seems to have been expalined away fairly well by materialistic science but still there are some experiments I've read about that seem to indicate something else.

[MisterJingo]

#
That's no Kirlian phootography. Kirlian photography has nothing to do with Valerie Hunt.
I did a bit of a search on the Internet and can't see anything debunking her. I'm not sure about Kirlian photography at the moment. It seems to have been expalined away fairly well by materialistic science but still there are some experiments I've read about that seem to indicate something else.

Please explain the difference between Hunt's work and Kirlian photography, heres a quote for those who don't know:

Where did this advanced technology begin?

Dr. Valerie Hunt, one of the leading researchers of the University of California at Los Angeles, was a pioneer in the advanced study of the human aura and biofeedback in the 1970's and 1980's. She says: "The important part of this technology is the correlation process between the measured bio-data and specific states of mind, body and energy from the client."

Basically what Dr. Hunt did at UCLA was to hook up her subjects with sophisticated biofeedback sensors. At the same time, clairvoyant healers and sensitive's were watching the subject to describe the actual aura around the subject. Even the physical body was hidden, so the sensitive could only see an aura, which supposedly extended beyond the physical body.  The measured bio-data was then compared to the descriptions of the aura colors, shapes and visual patterns by the sensitive's. Dr. Hunt found specific bio-data would appear on the monitor, the sensitive would  "see" the correlating aura color around the subject. This research was groundbreaking and confirmed, for the first time, a direct relationship between the human body and the human aura. In technical terms, the psycho-physiological data measured through biofeedback clearly correlates with aura colors around a subject as described by sensitive's.

So she hooked her subjects up to GSV and biofeedback devices. She correlated various biofeedback values to colours. She overlaid these colours using software on the person whose aura she was taking.
Kirlian photography by comparison is hooking subjects up to a GSV biofeedback device, correlating biofeedback values with colours, and then overlaying these colours using software on the person whose aura is being.

For more information:

What is the difference between Aura Video Images and Kirlian Photography?



Kirlian Photography uses a high voltage setup to display the corona or energy around fingers or feet. Basically you place your fingers on an electric plate and after you get a light shock a corona around your finger shows up on the photo paper. There are huge differences in the quality of Kirlian devices starting from a few hundred dollars to very expensive systems. The professional systems will give you valuable information about a client's energetic state. Kirlian requires extensive training, because it is very complex and often difficult for practioners and also clients to understand. An in-depth knowledge of the meridian/acupuncture system in the body and a long experience with the specific Kirlian equipment is necessary to use for medical and therapeutic work.

Inneractive's Aura Video Systems do not use Kirlian technology but rather biofeedback "measuring" device to detect and measure bio-data. We do not stimulate clients with high voltage, but only measure the energy flow and activity in the body.



Aura Video Systems have many advantages over a Kirlian device:

High quality color full-body aura chakra photos and aura photo headshots.

Up to 22 page aura chakra reports in 12 languages.

A wide range of features and applications not found on Kirlian devices.

Much easier to use and understand for the clients' wellness.

More visual, therefore client understands the process and analysis better.

No electric shock or stimulation.

Computerized system works on PC and laptop.

Very easy to operate, no calibration or intuitive adjustment necessary.

  Colorful and visual pleasing graphic and display.

The difference is purely semantics.

[Chris_com28]

Please stop refering to aura photography as Kirlian photography. It's getting annoying and it's very wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirlian_photography

The difference is purely semantics.

The difference between what? Between Valerie Hunt and aura photography or aura photography and Kirlian photography?

[MisterJingo]

Please stop refering to aura photography as Kirlian photography. It's getting annoying and it's very wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirlian_photography

To quote your reference:

In controversial metaphysical contexts, Kirlian photography, Kirlian energy, and so on, are sometimes referred to as just "Kirlian." Kirlian made controversial claims that his method showed proof of supernatural auras,

An experiment advanced as evidence of energy fields generated by living entities involves taking Kirlian contact photographs of a picked leaf at set periods, its gradual withering being said to correspond with a decline in the strength of the aura.

Kirlian proposed and promoted the idea that the resulting images of living objects were a physical proof of the life force or aura which allegedly surrounds all living beings.

Your source is using the terms aura photography and Kirlian photography interchangeably. The inventor of Kirlian photography claimed Kirlian photography captured auras, and it has been extensively used as proof that auras existed. Moreso, simply entering "aura photography" into google shows all the top results are about Kirlian photography.

The difference between what? Between Valerie Hunt and aura photography or aura photography and Kirlian photography?

The difference between the techniques Valerie Hunt used to capture her aura videos and the techniques used in Kirlian photography (aura photography).

[Chris_com28]

Sorry but I don't see any interchangeable use of Kirlian photography and aura photography in those extracts.

Moreso, simply entering "aura photography" into google shows all the top results are about Kirlian photography.

I think maybe you're misunderstanding here. Kirlian photography is a type of aura photography. Measuring the "aura" though biofeedback isn't Kirlian photography and so I whould call it aura photography (I can't find a better name for it).

The difference between the techniques Valerie Hunt used to capture her aura videos and the techniques used in Kirlian photography (aura photography).

Do you mean the biofeedback type of "photography"? I'm not sure about that. She basically described it as an EEG, just really sensitive and built by a NASA engineer. It may help to read her book, though as you seem quite skeptical like me you'll probably be only annoyed that there seems to be no replicated experiments and the device is a one of a kind.