hyperdimension resonator device obe

[manuel]

Well, imo, it looks like a well concieved hoax.

[weagle]

I think it is I went to sites that actually sell the device assembled charge like $250-420.  One guy asked questions to one of them they refused to give test drives of device saying have to buy it or even refused to give names they say are testimonies that it works.  One guy mentioned he used it all it does is make you drunk, geez you can do the same if you listen to hemisync/binaural sound i doubt its any better.  But its funny things they are saying to get people to buy BS stuff like MIB (men in black) police the past etc if they catch you going to the past they will zap you and you'll have a mark, or may see greys/aliens and govt doesn't want people using these devices or wanting them to give out too much info then after I read all that BS obviously they are taking stuff people have watched in sci-fi movies which are not true and make people believe its true so they can buy it and whats scary is who would want to even put a electromagnetic device on their body if you don't know what the side effects are anyways.  What is bizarre is they said they put a person on art-bell's long time ago who was selling one of these type of devices.  But then again not all guests on the show are credible they just want to sell their BS so they can make money in books etc..  That's the most annoying thing this planet would be a better place if people didn't BS people around so they can sell or take peoples fortune wrongfully especially since they worked hard for the money honestly and not Bs'ing people.

[Leviiathan]

electric currents and time dials have nothing to do with obstructing the space/time continuum in a device like that.

Ever see the TV commercials about the impossible business devices, like the Master Connector that connects anything to everything?

There was also the device that would allow corporate bodies to go back in time and erase the business mistakes they made.

Very funny stuff. This device is no different.

[Leviiathan]

CRYSTAL POWER ROD
Also known as an Atlantean power rod. These devices amplify the mind energy of it's operator and allow the projection of this energy through time and space. It is actually a miniature Subatomic Particle Beam Projector.



ROFL!!

[weagle]

Leviathan you know if you read all the religions or lets take for example super saints (take for instance mary agreda city of god book she wrote revelations her body as a sign hasn't decomposed in 350 years) what it boils down to looks like is your character is your destiny which is true in the astral world whatever character you have you take it with you when you dream and the same thing if you die afterwards you take your conscious with you, most important is to develope your conscious/spirituality while you are alive ie pray/meditate change your beliefs/character etc...  I also like the show Penn & Teller's BullS*IT its on Showtime fantastic show it shows how people use people to make money by selling them BS such as fake psychics on tv you didn't know they do heavy editing on mistakes/pre readings cause the audience signs disclaimers not to talk to the media, or you didn't know tv evangelists scare people to join their religion so they can be healed but they never show 3 weeks or 6 months later what happened to those people most don't even retain their healing or those who write those apocalyptic books that don't even come true and they go back and revise it or scare people into making a buck.  Thats the most evilist thing to do is to be the biggest BS'er in the world to make money or control over people (examples Hitler was one etc..).  Thats why glad I ain't a leader because to be a leader you cannot be a BS'er if you want to work TRULY on God's side, you have to work for charity because charity can never corrupt a person but money always will. Also god is referred to the uncreated charity he created every living being out of his love and charity and we're on this planet to imitate him or his character.

[Leviiathan]

Your message, weagle, is quite perplexing because you have so many points that are jumbled together in a way that it is hard to tell whether you are arguing with me or not, or what you are indeed arguing against. So I guess I'll attempt to dissect your message and respond to parts of it.

quote:
Leviathan you know if you read all the religions or lets take for example super saints (take for instance mary agreda city of god book she wrote revelations her body as a sign hasn't decomposed in 350 years)

Super... saints? Enlighten me on this issue because I have no idea what super saints are. I've never heard of the term before.

quote:
what it boils down to looks like is your character is your destiny

You don't really provide a good analogy or explanation of this. I'n not stupid, but I feel you weren't being very clear or concise with your points.

You are no doubt referring to either the legacy one leaves behind, the conscious ego-memory that lingers after death (in theory). Your actions and thoughts and the influences that determine these things do indeed pave your destiny. You do make a valid point.

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which is true in the astral world whatever character you have you take it with you when you dream and the same thing if you die afterwards you take your conscious with you,

I make it a habit of arguging against this form of mental conscription, namely because human belief changes its position on idealisms faster than the wind going at hurricane speeds.

Rather than holding to belief, I merely keep things like this in mind, as an idealological philosophy / theory. I take a habbit of defending and/or quoting theory I may or may not even necessarily believe on [8D]

quote:
most important is to develope your conscious/spirituality while you are alive ie pray/meditate change your beliefs/character etc...

Are you saying that through meditation and prayer, you can change yourself? That is only a half-assumption. The real path to changing yourself is through your subconscious mind. That is what affirmations, prayer, and meditation serve the purpose of doing. There is nothing spiritual about it. It is 100% all-natural psycological programming at work. []

New Age believe kindles on the idea that when we die, we move on, but what most people don't explore is the reasons why all of these things happen. What I do not buy into is blind faith, so because the science/logic behind this thing lacks, I do not easily buy into it, though I accept the possibility as a truth (I merely just like to pick at things and analyze them).

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I also like the show Penn & Teller's BullS*IT its on Showtime fantastic show it shows how people use people to make money by selling them BS such as fake psychics on tv

I'll add in that Madam Cleo was busted for fraud and forced to cancel the bills she had charged for her service, and/or pay back the people she had taken money from.

When I look in the classifieds, I see psychics offering their services. It's amusing to see the cliches being shared around. Somehow, I have yet to see a self-advertising medium that isn't "world-renowned", "a specialist in all fields with 6 years experience", or a "Professeur". Don't believe me? There are three such mediums on one single classifieds page that share the exact same personal criteria. Scary, eh.

I've had one free tarrot reading, and I had another consultation at one point. The first one was so vague and elusive that the reading itself could have applied to any single person in my life. It's smoke and mirrors. The second consultation I had (totally different person. This one, I paid for) was with someone who was down to earth. I had a 15 minute session with her, and she was very good. We began with tarrot, but she just spread the cards out over the table like a mess. There was no pattern involved. I found it odd because I have mingled in tarrot on one occassion or another. I believe a "channeling" procedure had gone on. I have yet to see whether things will indeed pick up for me in March, as she had stated.

I am not sure at all about mediums. For the most part, I understand them to be people that are very accomplished at telling a person what they want to hear, or being able to offer very good advice (that is more or less common sense) in a very short time frame.

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you didn't know they do heavy editing on mistakes/pre readings cause the audience signs disclaimers not to talk to the media, or you didn't know tv evangelists scare people to join their religion so they can be healed but they never show 3 weeks or 6 months later what happened to those people most don't even retain their healing

I don't buy into that crap for the most part. TV is TV. Miracles and healings have occured in real life before, but that is a different issue, I would come to understand. What makes real life different from TV is that TV attempts to capitalize off public interest.

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or those who write those apocalyptic books that don't even come true and they go back and revise it or scare people into making a buck.

I scoff at Edgar Cayce. Nostradamus, on the other hand, has not revised his works. They have merely been interpreted for what they are by authors, who, over the times, keep on revising their works as they come to make new realizations. They are good reads, but nothing that anyone should take seriously.

But take this into consideration. For years, if not decades, Armaggedon has been theorized to occur in the middle east... in bablyon, if I remember correctly (which to my knowledge is modern-day Iraq). Notice the way current events are shaping lately so that most of the world has become entrenched in a third-world war. People are protesting, but ultimately, there WILL be a war against IRAQ, no doubts about it.

Ironically, most of the world's nations are contributing forces to an assult against this nation (to disarm it).

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Thats the most evilist thing to do is to be the biggest BS'er in the world to make money or control over people

You speak of the dark side of capitalism.

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(examples Hitler was one etc..).

I have no idea how Hitler capitalized off the public in the way you are saying (money). Nationalism and Capitalism are different issues. During the Depression, there was nothing for Germany to capitalize off. In fact, it was under a state of Fascism, which was the right-wing opposite of Democracy and Capitalism.

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Thats why glad I ain't a leader because to be a leader you cannot be a BS'er if you want to work TRULY on God's side

To be a leader is to lead those who are needing to be led in a direction. Just because one is a follower does not make it any safer. Are you familiar with the dangers (and evils) of blind faith?

you have to work for charity because charity can never corrupt a person but money always will. Also god is referred to the uncreated charity he created every living being out of his love and charity and we're on this planet to imitate him or his character.

I'll leave that last opinion to you. I respect your opinion about God, so I'll refrain from arguging against it.

~Levii

[What Tha Phak]

That was a nice disection of weagle's post, Leviiathan.  So do you believe that certain elements or particles can amplify, perhaps thoughts, or strength..?  I've heard a lot about crystal communication, but have never been exposed to the idea.

[Leviiathan]

quote:Originally posted by What Tha Phak

That was a nice disection of weagle's post, Leviiathan.  So do you believe that certain elements or particles can amplify, perhaps thoughts, or strength..?

What particles do you suggest? Gravitons? Photons? Antiphotons? Protons? Antiprotons? Electrons? Positrons? Neutrinos?

Most of this is nothing more than makeshift and speculation made by sources that have no clue what they're talking about. If all they said were true, the discoveries would have made public news by now. When you apply Occam's Razor to this situation, it's nothing more than a capitalist scam to sell you out.

You are no doubt familiar with the old Super Hero cliche, correct? Always, if anything, it involves radiation poisoning as a catalyst for biological system mutations. Radiation DOES mutate cells, but whenever this happens, those cells become cancerous. Cancer, as we all know leads to tumours. Tumours lead to death.

Sound frequencies, on the other hand, and even light, has an effect on the brain. To what extent, however, I am no expert of. I have used Brain Wave generator, and what I have noticed has been that it does successfully induce, or shall I say, help to aid, altered brainwave states. What I have come to infer (skepticism) is that the subconscious is naturally resistant to processes that would artificially alter itself. Some are naturally protective to what the subconscious might percieve as mind-control (such as myself), hence, they are not easily hypnotized or put into a state of helpless submission.

I have studied on the processes that make hypnosis possible, and the key factor that allows it to occur is a willingness to comply. A mutual concent is needed by the person. Prior to performing hypnotisms, the hypnotist generally performs tests on the individual to indicate how subconsciously willing they are to open themselves up. This is what I have meant when I have inquired the other people here about "natural resistance barrier". I guess one could consider it a fear (that is, a fear to be put into a state where you can be mentally raped, taken advantage of). What I do not consider it is this: a fear of the unknown, death, ecetra.

Thought itself is an arcane subject that is not easily defined. What is thought? Is it simply the net result of an infinite yes-no problem-solving process going on through your head, which occurs billions of times a second (i.e. helps you determine taste, touch, smell, your reasoning of it based on experience, and so forth) Or is it more than just that? For those who have seen the light, metaphorically (and theoretically speaking), thought is simply not a dead and artificial process. Some see thought as a divine prospect, something from God that makes us superior over animals. This notion is as arrogant as it is ignorant.
There are those who peruse these forums, on the other hand, that are not so prejiduced against all that isn't man. I concur on this regard: Man is not a perfect race. To say this is to defeat the purpose of existence in the first place.
Regardless of whether you are a conservative (thought is an artificial process of the biological computer), or liberal (thought is more than just a thought process. It is a process of transcendalism) in this regard, neither atheists, nor transcendalists are able to give a stable thesis as to how thought can truly be measured. Thought is personal, and also an example of randomness at work. Because it cannot be measured in patterns, it is entirely random.

So, if thought is unable to be measured (or even defined), how is one to know what forces affect (i.e. amplify) our thoughts, or even strengthen them? It is no different than trying to catch something that does not seemingly exist. Thought DOES seem to exist, but at the same time, there is no way to prove that it does. Thought is similar to those ghostly particles (Blackeons and Takyons), which travel both slower and faster than the pace of time.

[weagle]

quote:

quote:
Leviathan you know if you read all the religions or lets take for example super saints (take for instance mary agreda city of god book she wrote revelations her body as a sign hasn't decomposed in 350 years)

Super... saints? Enlighten me on this issue because I have no idea what super saints are. I've never heard of the term before.

Those are the ones who give their will completely over to God that is their lifestyle they completely work for charity I think is a major requirement as a super saint.  If you believe that there is a God he must of created us out of Love & Charity otherwise why would he create us for?  Therefore in simple terms its fair to say whomever works for charity has a major characteristic of God within them also loving everyone as themselves even their enemies.  Seriously the ones whom body's have not decomposed followed this same principle, try and find one person who's body hasn't decomposed who hasn't followed this principle.  There is none, therefore God does give signs to people that there exists a God and this is the character to follow if one wants to follow him.

quote:

quote:
what it boils down to looks like is your character is your destiny

You don't really provide a good analogy or explanation of this. I'n not stupid, but I feel you weren't being very clear or concise with your points.

If you want me to explain it further we are a sum of our thoughts or beliefs which develope our character so therefore our character is our destiny since thats all we carry with us when we die just what we did on earth by thinking and acting.  I like how dr. joseph murphy puts it purpose in life is to think right, act right and do right.

quote:

quote:
which is true in the astral world whatever character you have you take it with you when you dream and the same thing if you die afterwards you take your conscious with you,

I make it a habit of arguging against this form of mental conscription, namely because human belief changes its position on idealisms faster than the wind going at hurricane speeds.

Rather than holding to belief, I merely keep things like this in mind, as an idealological philosophy / theory. I take a habbit of defending and/or quoting theory I may or may not even necessarily believe on [8D]

I follow psychology because in there it's scientifically proven to be true ie whatever you impress in your subconscious is expressed in reality.  Reading the bible without some psychology is chaos cause what proper system would you use to base your perception or logic on that is which is not 100% proven.

quote:

quote:
most important is to develope your conscious/spirituality while you are alive ie pray/meditate change your beliefs/character etc...

Are you saying that through meditation and prayer, you can change yourself? That is only a half-assumption. The real path to changing yourself is through your subconscious mind. That is what affirmations, prayer, and meditation serve the purpose of doing. There is nothing spiritual about it. It is 100% all-natural psycological programming at work. []

New Age believe kindles on the idea that when we die, we move on, but what most people don't explore is the reasons why all of these things happen. What I do not buy into is blind faith, so because the science/logic behind this thing lacks, I do not easily buy into it, though I accept the possibility as a truth (I merely just like to pick at things and analyze them).

its true you can change yourself by reprogramming yourself difficult when they say you can't teach a dog new tricks thus you have to deprogram/omit the old habits but its even more of a blessing if you can help change others for the better or serve others for their own interests and not make a cent out of it.  Take for example give your time to help others. Even a double blessing help those you can't stand to help whom have done you wrong (love your enemies) because that means you don't hate or are judgemental of anyone thus you won't be judged like the quote in bible by jesus says judge ye not so that ye not be judged in the same manner mentally. Now if you have any abilities ie astral projection for exorcism or healings another blessing there because you have spiritual and mental abilities there.

quote:
I am not sure at all about mediums. For the most part, I understand them to be people that are very accomplished at telling a person what they want to hear, or being able to offer very good advice (that is more or less common sense) in a very short time frame.

There are far but few of them who not only can astral project but also tell your future or even tell you possible futures if you act according to them but those have to be clasified as super saints those who never sinned/made a lot of mistakes and lived all for God.  I read one quote from mary agreda's city of god it says the more sinner you are the less inspired from god you are or in other words it makes sense you make mistakes you are bound to make more mistakes as a medium, most mediums are not even mediums they're just great BS'ers.

quote:
I don't buy into that crap for the most part. TV is TV. Miracles and healings have occured in real life before, but that is a different issue, I would come to understand. What makes real life different from TV is that TV attempts to capitalize off public interest.

miracles do happen ie spontaneous healing but the best requirement true faith is believing in yourself and not external object or things or evangelists cause none of them get healed it appears, they did an investigation on hinn  70 healings that are claimed, after 8 weeks they gave them 7 people to investigate after waiting 3-10months none of them retained the healings because of blind faith.  It even says in psychology blind faith is not the best faith cause its temporary.

quote:
But take this into consideration. For years, if not decades, Armaggedon has been theorized to occur in the middle east... in bablyon, if I remember correctly (which to my knowledge is modern-day Iraq). Notice the way current events are shaping lately so that most of the world has become entrenched in a third-world war. People are protesting, but ultimately, there WILL be a war against IRAQ, no doubts about it.

what can I say money and ego makes wars.  The greatest anti-christ or anti-god will definately be the greatest BS'er in the world cause everyone will believe into their BS.

quote:

quote:
Thats the most evilist thing to do is to be the biggest BS'er in the world to make money or control over people

You speak of the dark side of capitalism.

quote:
(examples Hitler was one etc..).

I have no idea how Hitler capitalized off the public in the way you are saying (money). Nationalism and Capitalism are different issues. During the Depression, there was nothing for Germany to capitalize off. In fact, it was under a state of Fascism, which was the right-wing opposite of Democracy and Capitalism.

thats another thing I believe God doesn't like is communist/dictators because they take peoples right to believe there is even a God (they want people working on sundays) and you always see a revolution or fall of those nations because of it because they are not a blessed nation.  Take some historical events like supernatural events of Fatima 90years ago changed the who nation overnight with only one miracle from God that could not be disproved in the atheist paper and literally changed the nation back to deomocracy/religious nation.  Hitler waited 10 years til he can brainwash the young kids which is easier to do on kids they believe anything in order to follow him into war then afterwards he started the world war.

quote:

quote:
Thats why glad I ain't a leader because to be a leader you cannot be a BS'er if you want to work TRULY on God's side

To be a leader is to lead those who are needing to be led in a direction. Just because one is a follower does not make it any safer. Are you familiar with the dangers (and evils) of blind faith?

right direction that is.  what i see with politicians is they get in and don't do what they promise and whats worst is they like privatizing things so they can make more money by saving and taxing on privatized services which were once free/low cost services ie health care, hydro when they should be working for the people not as a business for their own pockets but to break even.

[Leviiathan]

Response to Weagle:

Perhaps you are being reckless (or merely careless). In the future, please consider not being compelled by the power of run-on sentences. That luxury is best saved for those who wish to embarass themselves.
Writing in a concise and paragraph-structured format is also strongly advisable. Brutally honest, but necessary.

To help me shift through your reply, I've taken the assistance of a lofty friend of mine: the sentence period. Very versatile, very handy. It's a greater best friend to man than his dog.

quote:
[Super Saints] are the ones who give their will completely over to God.

Question: is this an actual peice of jargon borrowed from a credible source (an actual term used to describe these devoted holy figures), or did you actually make it up. If the former is true, then I'll keep that term at close readiness.

Personally, I think the term coined by you "Super Saints" is crude. The term nun (or monk / priest) actually applies to what you are saying. The title of saint is only given to those who have pledged their entire life serving God, and is a title ordained by the patriarch (i.e. Pope)of the Roman Catholic Church. By that respect, I do not believe that Super Saints is an actual word that exists.

quote:
That is their [Nun/Monk]lifestyle. They completely work for charity I think is a major requirement as a super saint.

If you only think, then how can you truly know if it is true? I can't answer this one because I have no idea how saints are ordained. It is as elusive to me as the requirements necessary for knighthood. In any case, I would suggest you do the research (for the fun of it, and to understand the issue more closely)

quote:
If you believe that there is a God, he must have created us out of Love & Charity otherwise why would he create us for?

I believe in God, and I do not. This may sound confusing, but the reason I speak in such a paradox is because the perception as to what God is (what type of God we are speaking of), is beyond generalization. Are we talking about the detached Islamic god of Allah? Or perhaps you are referring to the virtual-plane state of God that is achieved in the Hinduist religion (i.e. Reality is a dream. Disciples who are learned in the way of this faith must spend their lives awakening themselves to the true reality that exists, which is God). Perhaps you are referring to the New Age interpretation of God, which is the most liberal and versatile image of all Transcendalist theses.

No doubt you are referring to the Anglo-Christian conception of God (a benign, watered down version of the Roman Catholic Father, who by my understanding defies Himself as a hypocrit in every single aspect).

While I have a very strong spiritual side to myself, I do not easily buy into the ways of conventional, idealistic thinking. It is crude, broken, disarmed of rational thinking. While everyone has their own conception of God, (including you), I feel inclined to share my own opinion as well (as this point). As I see it, why must someone concern themselves with an Avatar (an image). Is God so important to people that they would spend their entire lives searching for an image to stare at? The same thing applies to any sort of defining point that one could possibly apply to God. I can honestly see why this happens though: people believe that by finding God in this way, they are establishing a relationship with Him (or Her. Or It). If that is God, I'll shoot myself. Last time I checked, the whorship of false idols was considered a sin. And from what I understand, almost everyone on this planet seems to find God in ignorance. That, in itself, is a whorship of Ignorance, and not a whorship of God.

As far as debating about the process of fundamentalism at work, the end result of even scratching the surface here will be 3 - 4 Pages of wasted time, or even 20. Arguements about the ways in which we interpret God are a product of arrogance. I'm not telling you what to believe, only what I think (or believe).

I do not believe, for one second, that the result of our existence was for love and charity. I believe that love is an aspect of human nature that is mutual between its components. I believe that charity is a product of compassion. What I believe is that we were created to experience life in its two defining values: the microcosm and the macrocosm. Spirituality is the process of experiencing a side of life that is not found around you. It is the process of experiencing a sort of life within yourself. The every day life in which we experience is the other side of the coin, where we experience life in the macrocosm (the environment around us).

quote:
Therefore, in simple terms, its fair to say whomever works for charity has a major characteristic of God within them, [which is] also loving everyone as themselves, even their enemies.

The moral issues that the gospel brings up are a two-sided coin. Most people ignore the bulk of it and familiarize themselves with what they want to hear.

Compassion and charity go hand in hand. I believe that charity is a wonderful thing, because it creates a good equilibrium that shifts wealth to those who are needy of it. Charity, however, does make a person any more spiritual than the next person beside them. The only result of charity is that it satisfies a sort of psycological epiphany that allows you to realize that the dollar you do in fact have might be better spent on keeping a boy out of the cold for one day.

Giving is a great thing. However, there is such a thing as too much giving. A dangerous form of giving would be self-sacrifice. Would you committ suicide if you believed it would make someone else happy? No, of course not.

quote:
Seriously the ones whom body's have not decomposed followed this same principle, try and find one person who's body hasn't decomposed who hasn't followed this principle.

No one's immortal. Our bodies grow and follow a process of decay once we get past our prime. The reason why our bodies decay is because of the cell regeneration process.

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There is none, therefore God does give signs to people that there exists a God and this is the character to follow if one wants to follow him.

Actually, the fact that biological decay is common place to all things does not give any such indicator in the existence of God.

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If you want me to explain it further. . .

When I said you weren't being very clear and concise, I was indicating that the way you were dictating your points was sloppy and ill-addressed. It came across as one big amalgamated run-on sentence that jumped from one point to the next without truly explaining itself.

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We are a sum of our thoughts or beliefs which develope our character so therefore our character is our destiny since thats all we carry with us when we die. . .

Reminds me of the old saying I once read/heard, "I think, therefore I am."

Thought must be a higher-level transcendalist feature because without the cerebral cortex regions, which define the properties of reason, emotions, and what we percieve to be pleasure and pain... thought would otherwise be un-existential. But yet, it is clear that thought defies such a thesis. I am perplexed by this odd paradox and have yet to solev it. At present, it is Life's ultimate question for me: what defines thought in a context that does not permit it necessary?

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. . .just what we did on earth by thinking and acting.  I like how Dr. Joseph Murphy puts it purpose in life is to think right, act right and do right.

And what he or you define as right? The islamic fundamentalists, for example, believe that destroying infidels is right. Does this mean that is it morally correct? No, I do not believe so. It seems that Dr. Jospeh Murphy has a hole in his fabric of logic.

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I follow psychology because in there it's scientifically proven to be true (ie whatever you impress in your subconscious is expressed in reality.)

The subconscious has the ultimate impact on the surface mind. That is why self-motivational courses are regarded as a failure. They try to impress upon your surface mind the programming of motivation and positive thinking. To change your reality, one must change the way they think, and to do this, it requires progrmaming the subconscious.

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Reading the bible without some psychology is chaos cause what proper system would you use to base your perception or logic on that is which is not 100% proven.

Oh, but that's what makes it so interesting when you DO apply the concepts of psycology to the gospel. In fact, that alone should give you an understanding why I have I have written my profile signature in the way that it is. Do you believe in an angry, prejiduced, diametric, spiteful, jealous God? I certainly do not.

The nature of evil, from what I understand, seems less extravagant in reality than how it is portrayed to be. When we are wronged, we feel a need to impose justice on the wrong-doorers that have offended us. Anger and Hate are not byproducts of evil or Sin. Rather, they are the result of natural thinking processes. No one is born naturally hateful or angry, they are simply made to be that way. I do not believe in Evil incognito or as an entity. That is not to say I am living a fantasy here where actions and thoughts that could be classified as "evil" do not exist. Evil, by my understanding, is a metaphor for a state of being that is destructive in some way or another (to the sanctity of life). Ironically, evil is accepted in some areas of our society (we kill both plants and animals to survive), whereas some forms of evil are not (murder, for example, is untolerable). Evil is a hyperbole for reckless hate or destructive decision making. Evil is anything that seeks to undo something else.

I think it is falliable to assume that evil did not exist before the (theoretical) Fall of Man simply because it is a product of reason. As long as free-will and reason exists, things that can be defined as evil will as well. Evil is not just present in Human society. It is also evident in the animal kingdom. Ever heard of a dog that had to be put to sleep because it had tasted blood? Animals kill animals, not simply for survival, but also because of reason (i.e. jealousy, envy, greed).

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There are far but few of them who not only can astral project but also tell your future or even tell you possible futures if you act according to them but those have to be clasified as super saints those who never sinned/made a lot of mistakes and lived all for God.

If you are suggesting that the gospel is credible, think again. It is full of more inconsistencies than holes than you can point a stick at. If you want an ultimate example of bible diametricity, look no further than the first page of Genesis itself. By examining the passages in there alone, I was able to draw up around 7 basic inferences (logic errors) that could not possibly be explained by biblical reason, explanation, or even miracles.

The implication is so obvious that it seems the most fundamental page of the gospel stands to undermine the legibility of the religion itself.

Because the finite future is infinite, writing a memory in that regard is close to impossible. In retrospect, an infinite number of possible histories has also led up to your present (infinite reality extends not just to the future, but also into the past), but that is beside the point (I'm making a secondary point here).

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I read one quote from mary agreda's city of god it says the more sinner you are the less inspired from god

What do you define as being a Sinner? I am bisexual, does that mean I deserve to die and not inherit the kingdom of God? If you hold a job, you no doubt have (or do) work on Sunday. There is another Sin right there. I question the legitimacy of what should and should not be considered an act of sinning, for much of the excess content in that very book is indeed barbaric, sexist, and downright sick. From a philosopher's perspective, most of what it argues comes down to a matter of what one understands as being morally correct.

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You are or in other words it makes sense you make mistakes you are bound to make more mistakes as a medium, most mediums are not even mediums they're just great BS'ers.

During my days in Christian Youth Group service, I recall hearing a story about Mathew (or David), or someone, who was not in fact an apostle, devotee, or servant of God. God came to him, regardless of what little service he had done. If I can find this passage, I will surely quote it to you.

Most mediums, I come to understand, are scam artists who have the gift of gab (You are right in that aspect).

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miracles do happen (ie spontaneous healing) but the best requirement true faith is believing in yourself and not external object or things or evangelists cause none of them get healed it appears, they did an investigation on hinn  70 healings that are claimed, after 8 weeks they gave them 7 people to investigate after waiting 3-10months none of them retained the healings because of blind faith.  It even says in psychology blind faith is not the best faith cause its temporary.

Of course TV Evangelism is wrong. It's capitalist.
I puke whenever I watch 100 Huntley Street (I mean, whenever I see it on TV). Noble intentions, but intentions that come in the form of pride and arrogance. How many christians do you know that have a sense of pride for their faith? Humility, on the other hand, is a wise state of being.

One thing I have been keeping my eye on lately, is the process of healings, faith, and so forth. Ever heard of a placebo? The effect of believing is no different than a process that programs the subconscious mind. As you yourself said, it has been proven that what is programmed into one's mind is what shapes their reality.

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what can I say money and ego makes wars.  The greatest anti-christ or anti-god will definately be the greatest BS'er in the world cause everyone will believe into their BS.

And as the doomsday naysayers seem to indicate, that day "is at hand"... but what they forget to add is that it has been that way for hundreds of years. The fable of the anti-christ is true only in the way that it can be interpreted in any such manor, and applied to almost any single individual that could possibly fit the profiles. Like Tarrot, the story can apply to many things.

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thats another thing I believe God doesn't like is communist/dictators because they take peoples right to believe there is even a God (they want people working on sundays)

Capitalist / Western / Democratic society is just as worse, if not more worse. People like I are forced to work on Sundays ill-regardless of whether we like it or not.

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And you always see a revolution or fall of those nations because of it because they are not a blessed nation.

Fascism is a horrible ideology to follow, but governments such as this are no more blessed than the governments of democracy, communism, and totalitarianist states that dot the world.

I would not call Iraq a nation to be blessed by God, yet for all of the turmoil it has gone through (i.e. in decieving the world, as the political leaders indicate), it still to this day stands. Does that make it blessed? Having not crumbled by now, I would perhaps say yes if I applied your logic to this scenario.

Extending your logic further, no nations of this world are blessed. All nations, under their distinct ideologies are corrupt. Capitalist Democracy is an oxymoron, and even true democracy does not exist within the world. What we live in (what I live in, in particular) is a friendly dictatorship, under the rule of a premier (Gordon Campbell, of the British Colubmia Liberal Party), which is under further rule by the Federal Liberal Party of Canada.

In true democracy, leaders are elected in by the people to represent them. Instead, we have corrupt idealists who are arrogant (and ignorant) enough to believe that they can (and yes, by all means they can) express a form of unilateralism against its own people.

Capitalism is a system based on wealth. It is decadent and corrupt and is much worse than communism or its fascist counterpart.
The United States is one of most sinful nations in the world, yet they still stand to this very day as one of the most powerful and self-justified exercisers of unilateralism

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Take some historical events like supernatural events of Fatima 90years ago changed the who nation overnight with only one miracle from God that could not be disproved in the atheist paper and literally changed the nation back to deomocracy/religious nation.  Hitler waited 10 years til he can brainwash the young kids which is easier to do on kids they believe anything in order to follow him into war then afterwards he started the world war.

I'd need to read up on Fatima.

Your statement on Hitler also says nothing significantly evident.

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right direction that is.  what i see with politicians is they get in and don't do what they promise and whats worst is they like privatizing things so they can make more money by saving and taxing on privatized services which were once free/low cost services ie health care, hydro when they should be working for the people not as a business for their own pockets but to break even.

Sounds like British Columbia. That's capitalism with you *coughs* friendly dicatorship at work.

[cainam_nazier]

"I can't answer this one because I have no idea how saints are ordained. It is as elusive to me as the requirements necessary for knighthood. "

I got the answer.  

It is some what like being promoted.  Sure there are core basics but in the end it is all up to the boss.  No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, if they don't like you that's it....no promotion.

[Leviiathan]

Hey, this Crystal Power Rod looks interesting. I think I'll buy it, then use it to reincarnate Jesus as a woman. Maybe I can even summon God, Satan, and throw one big party where we can play Dance Dance Revolution []

[weagle]

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[Super Saints] are the ones who give their will completely over to God.

Question: is this an actual peice of jargon borrowed from a credible source (an actual term used to describe these devoted holy figures), or did you actually make it up. If the former is true, then I'll keep that term at close readiness.

Personally, I think the term coined by you "Super Saints" is crude. The term nun (or monk / priest) actually applies to what you are saying. The title of saint is only given to those who have pledged their entire life serving God, and is a title ordained by the patriarch (i.e. Pope)of the Roman Catholic Church. By that respect, I do not believe that Super Saints is an actual word that exists.

I believe you are right when saying usually nuns or monks are considered a super saint.  Then again there are lay people who gave up all their riches to follow God.  Think about it. Something supernatural had to have happened in their lives to change completely around not because of some BS'ers scaring people into their own religion so they can take their money but something happened that made them believe there is a creator.

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That is their [Nun/Monk]lifestyle. They completely work for charity I think is a major requirement as a super saint.

If you only think, then how can you truly know if it is true? I can't answer this one because I have no idea how saints are ordained. It is as elusive to me as the requirements necessary for knighthood. In any case, I would suggest you do the research (for the fun of it, and to understand the issue more closely)

I don't think they have to be canonized or ordained in a religion to be a saint.  There are many saints in heaven that are not recognized by the religious organizations on earth maybe mainly because they did their duties in private and were not recognized publicly.  I believe there are some saints that should be canonized but I believe in God eyes they are, take for example Mary Agreda 350 year old body not to decompose at all and not even embalmized yet she's not a canonized saint in the catholic church.

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If you believe that there is a God, he must have created us out of Love & Charity otherwise why would he create us for?

I believe in God, and I do not. This may sound confusing, but the reason I speak in such a paradox is because the perception as to what God is (what type of God we are speaking of), is beyond generalization. Are we talking about the detached Islamic god of Allah? Or perhaps you are referring to the virtual-plane state of God that is achieved in the Hinduist religion (i.e. Reality is a dream. Disciples who are learned in the way of this faith must spend their lives awakening themselves to the true reality that exists, which is God). Perhaps you are referring to the New Age interpretation of God, which is the most liberal and versatile image of all Transcendalist theses.

To generalize most religions I'd look at the new age/psychology type as the true God.  God is Love and Charity and all the misery in the world is from our own mistakes or other mistakes of others and sins, not God's fault, our fault.  So one is responsible for his own actions especially the karma law.  But I still don't want to limit God since God is unlimited even though we think we may know everything about God none of us know him completely maybe with the exception of Jesus Christ whom try to light some information about him in the bible.

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While I have a very strong spiritual side to myself, I do not easily buy into the ways of conventional, idealistic thinking. It is crude, broken, disarmed of rational thinking. While everyone has their own conception of God, (including you), I feel inclined to share my own opinion as well (as this point). As I see it, why must someone concern themselves with an Avatar (an image). Is God so important to people that they would spend their entire lives searching for an image to stare at? The same thing applies to any sort of defining point that one could possibly apply to God. I can honestly see why this happens though: people believe that by finding God in this way, they are establishing a relationship with Him (or Her. Or It). If that is God, I'll shoot myself. Last time I checked, the whorship of false idols was considered a sin. And from what I understand, almost everyone on this planet seems to find God in ignorance. That, in itself, is a whorship of Ignorance, and not a whorship of God.

I think when we want something we should go directly to him not some silly Rabbits Foot or lucky charm, I think you limit him to an object which God is far greater than anyone can imagine, he created the universe and life on this planet.

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I do not believe, for one second, that the result of our existence was for love and charity. I believe that love is an aspect of human nature that is mutual between its components. I believe that charity is a product of compassion. What I believe is that we were created to experience life in its two defining values: the microcosm and the macrocosm. Spirituality is the process of experiencing a side of life that is not found around you. It is the process of experiencing a sort of life within yourself. The every day life in which we experience is the other side of the coin, where we experience life in the macrocosm (the environment around us).

Reason I say charity and love because I am assuming God created us in his own images so he must feel the same as we feel therefore he must of been motivated for love and charity in order to create us.

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Compassion and charity go hand in hand. I believe that charity is a wonderful thing, because it creates a good equilibrium that shifts wealth to those who are needy of it. Charity, however, does make a person any more spiritual than the next person beside them. The only result of charity is that it satisfies a sort of psycological epiphany that allows you to realize that the dollar you do in fact have might be better spent on keeping a boy out of the cold for one day.

Another reason if we are explaining it characteristic wise here is Charity is non ego-istic thats another thing when one thinks he is above another person.  Almost like a humility or humble person one can't approach God in boastful way but in a humility way ie I'm merely nothing compared to God attitude same as all of us sinners approach God that way.

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Giving is a great thing. However, there is such a thing as too much giving. A dangerous form of giving would be self-sacrifice. Would you committ suicide if you believed it would make someone else happy? No, of course not.

Some saints who defended what they believed in their God were executed because they did not believe in someone elses religion.  Those you could say are self-sacrificers.

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Seriously the ones whom body's have not decomposed followed this same principle, try and find one person who's body hasn't decomposed who hasn't followed this principle.

No one's immortal. Our bodies grow and follow a process of decay once we get past our prime. The reason why our bodies decay is because of the cell regeneration process.

I don't think you've studied this field too much yet go to a search engine and type incorruptible body saints or better yet go to amazon bookstore and type those keywords there are books about them. I ain't joking there are bodies with pictures mostly nuns whom's bodies have not decomposed in 350 or so years even children saints as well 100 years and they all led a very religious life. They never put washed them or put any preservatives on them still intact no rot or decay in centuries.

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We are a sum of our thoughts or beliefs which develope our character so therefore our character is our destiny since thats all we carry with us when we die. . .

Reminds me of the old saying I once read/heard, "I think, therefore I am."

Yes or if you want to relate to the old testament whatever you attach to I AM, you become.

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Thought must be a higher-level transcendalist feature because without the cerebral cortex regions, which define the properties of reason, emotions, and what we percieve to be pleasure and pain... thought would otherwise be un-existential. But yet, it is clear that thought defies such a thesis. I am perplexed by this odd paradox and have yet to solev it. At present, it is Life's ultimate question for me: what defines thought in a context that does not permit it necessary?

If you take suffering, the greatest thing is to learn from your mistakes or sufferings so this way you're not stuck in an endless loop of negative emotions and go spiraling down even more I've seen people think Booze or Drugs or Marijuana was their way out but it made it even worse for them they ended up evicted from their apartment.

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. . .just what we did on earth by thinking and acting.  I like how Dr. Joseph Murphy puts it purpose in life is to think right, act right and do right.

And what he or you define as right? The islamic fundamentalists, for example, believe that destroying infidels is right. Does this mean that is it morally correct? No, I do not believe so. It seems that Dr. Jospeh Murphy has a hole in his fabric of logic.

Jesus said the most important commandments in simplified terms is Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself which everyone must follow.  So obviously killing anyone is not right.  But he also said even if you hate a person is still considered murder in your heart that is why it is important to even love your enemies as well and not judge them because you have no right to judge.

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I follow psychology because in there it's scientifically proven to be true (ie whatever you impress in your subconscious is expressed in reality.)

The subconscious has the ultimate impact on the surface mind. That is why self-motivational courses are regarded as a failure. They try to impress upon your surface mind the programming of motivation and positive thinking. To change your reality, one must change the way they think, and to do this, it requires progrmaming the subconscious.

You are right in that you can't teach a old dog new tricks, they have to deprogram or change their thinking which is the toughest thing to do and requires a lot of will power and effort probably as much as one who desires to astral project (that is even a tricky thing a lot of failures before some successes).

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Reading the bible without some psychology is chaos cause what proper system would you use to base your perception or logic on that is which is not 100% proven.

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Oh, but that's what makes it so interesting when you DO apply the concepts of psycology to the gospel. In fact, that alone should give you an understanding why I have I have written my profile signature in the way that it is. Do you believe in an angry, prejiduced, diametric, spiteful, jealous God? I certainly do not.

if you go back to those two important rules to follow so long as you have no messed up or destroyed other peoples lives, taken away their faith or something in that nature then there is no reason why God would be angry with you?  Or like the wiccans say do whatever you like in life but harm no one similar to Jesus's quote.

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The nature of evil, from what I understand, seems less extravagant in reality than how it is portrayed to be. When we are wronged, we feel a need to impose justice on the wrong-doorers that have offended us. Anger and Hate are not byproducts of evil or Sin. Rather, they are the result of natural thinking processes. No one is born naturally hateful or angry, they are simply made to be that way. I do not believe in Evil incognito or as an entity. That is not to say I am living a fantasy here where actions and thoughts that could be classified as "evil" do not exist. Evil, by my understanding, is a metaphor for a state of being that is destructive in some way or another (to the sanctity of life). Ironically, evil is accepted in some areas of our society (we kill both plants and animals to survive), whereas some forms of evil are not (murder, for example, is untolerable). Evil is a hyperbole for reckless hate or destructive decision making. Evil is anything that seeks to undo something else.

Dr. Murphy says evil is using the mind in the wrong ways but true its silly to blame entities for your problems there always has to be a cause and effect scenario somewhere.

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I think it is falliable to assume that evil did not exist before the (theoretical) Fall of Man simply because it is a product of reason. As long as free-will and reason exists, things that can be defined as evil will as well. Evil is not just present in Human society. It is also evident in the animal kingdom. Ever heard of a dog that had to be put to sleep because it had tasted blood? Animals kill animals, not simply for survival, but also because of reason (i.e. jealousy, envy, greed).

If we are no more or less than animals I think we lower our intelligence greatly.  Thank goodness we have a law system (law in the dictionary is also translated as Lord by the way) otherwise we'd be killing each other like in the wild-wild west gun slinger era.

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There are far but few of them who not only can astral project but also tell your future or even tell you possible futures if you act according to them but those have to be clasified as super saints those who never sinned/made a lot of mistakes and lived all for God.

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If you are suggesting that the gospel is credible, think again. It is full of more inconsistencies than holes than you can point a stick at. If you want an ultimate example of bible diametricity, look no further than the first page of Genesis itself. By examining the passages in there alone, I was able to draw up around 7 basic inferences (logic errors) that could not possibly be explained by biblical reason, explanation, or even miracles.

Nobody is perfect in recording events. I've seen the anomalies but it's the thought that counts not the creidibility of sentences. Take for instance when you look at the gospels, one disciple may say the same parableof Jesus slightly different way than the other one or may even say it partially wrong but gets atleast the point across in general.

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I read one quote from mary agreda's city of god it says the more sinner you are the less inspired from god

What do you define as being a Sinner? I am bisexual, does that mean I deserve to die and not inherit the kingdom of God? If you hold a job, you no doubt have (or do) work on Sunday. There is another Sin right there. I question the legitimacy of what should and should not be considered an act of sinning, for much of the excess content in that very book is indeed barbaric, sexist, and downright sick. From a philosopher's perspective, most of what it argues comes down to a matter of what one understands as being morally correct.


You know I made a statement awhile back and after learning about astral projection/purgatory spirit world on this earth I came to realize it still holds true and is the most important thing is not to be obsessed in life and not to feed on another persons obsessions if the impact is negative.  They say even people who are too religious are in the astral and not moved on because they were too religious fanatics caught up in their own religion knocking others down and lacked the other qualities of life or wasn't even considered a spiritual person.  So there has to always be a balance in life I think.  I like saying it this way if you become too compulsive to drink you become a compulsive alcoholic (not treating the temple of god right).  Same as eating, same as gambling, same as negative emotions, same as etc.. etc..
 

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You are or in other words it makes sense you make mistakes you are bound to make more mistakes as a medium, most mediums are not even mediums they're just great BS'ers.

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miracles do happen (ie spontaneous healing) but the best requirement true faith is believing in yourself and not external object or things or evangelists cause none of them get healed it appears, they did an investigation on hinn  70 healings that are claimed, after 8 weeks they gave them 7 people to investigate after waiting 3-10months none of them retained the healings because of blind faith.  It even says in psychology blind faith is not the best faith cause its temporary.

Of course TV Evangelism is wrong. It's capitalist.
I puke whenever I watch 100 Huntley Street (I mean, whenever I see it on TV). Noble intentions, but intentions that come in the form of pride and arrogance. How many christians do you know that have a sense of pride for their faith? Humility, on the other hand, is a wise state of being.

Every preacher has his own interpretation of the bible and usually it's the capitalistic way not the theologian way ie they always like to quote about tithing all your money to them.  Or they got the news/apocalypse hour they instill fear or false prophecies (ie hal lindsey they debunked him the show penn teller's Bulls*t last week how they sell books on fear and the prophecies never came true). The only religious channel I have a little respect for is probably EWTN (catholic channel). They bring on theologians who have a degree or atleast some credentials and talk about spiritual life and not brainwash you to give them the money and they also work on a break even basis just to cover costs, not to have fancy studios or drive fancy cars or ride on fancy jets etc..  

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One thing I have been keeping my eye on lately, is the process of healings, faith, and so forth. Ever heard of a placebo? The effect of believing is no different than a process that programs the subconscious mind. As you yourself said, it has been proven that what is programmed into one's mind is what shapes their reality.

I think 99.99% of the time it's what you describe but it still remains the 0.01% got their healing without having to work out much of their faith just have a little of it (read about the fatima incident about the miracle of the sun people who were healed etc..).

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what can I say money and ego makes wars.  The greatest anti-christ or anti-god will definately be the greatest BS'er in the world cause everyone will believe into their BS.

And as the doomsday naysayers seem to indicate, that day "is at hand"... but what they forget to add is that it has been that way for hundreds of years. The fable of the anti-christ is true only in the way that it can be interpreted in any such manor, and applied to almost any single individual that could possibly fit the profiles. Like Tarrot, the story can apply to many things.

Well as the years progress as we pay more and more taxes we are leaning back towards a communist system cause money in some sense is freedom and like I mentioned before god doesn't like atheism/communism (look at the fatima incident).

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I would not call Iraq a nation to be blessed by God, yet for all of the turmoil it has gone through (i.e. in decieving the world, as the political leaders indicate), it still to this day stands. Does that make it blessed? Having not crumbled by now, I would perhaps say yes if I applied your logic to this scenario.

It's not the peoples fault it's the dictator leaders fault.

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Extending your logic further, no nations of this world are blessed. All nations, under their distinct ideologies are corrupt. Capitalist Democracy is an oxymoron, and even true democracy does not exist within the world. What we live in (what I live in, in particular) is a friendly dictatorship, under the rule of a premier (Gordon Campbell, of the British Colubmia Liberal Party), which is under further rule by the Federal Liberal Party of Canada.
[/quote]

Democracy is good if all people are treated equally but that is never the case. Usually politicians pretend to be but they are the greatest BS'ers, they only want the peoples votes once they are in their character changes.

[Leviiathan]

quote:Originally posted by weagle

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I believe you are right when saying usually nuns or monks are considered a super saint.

Super Saint: a crude, inaccurate, and melodramatic term for someone who:

1) A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth. A person who has died and gone to heaven.

or

2) A person sanctified; a holy or godly person; one eminent for piety and virtue; any true Christian, as being redeemed and consecrated to God

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. . .Then again there are lay people who gave up all their riches to follow God.  Think about it. Something supernatural had to have happened in their lives to change completely around not because of some BS'ers scaring people into their own religion so they can take their money but something happened that made them believe there is a creator.

This can be rooted to placebo, guilt, or some revelation they have believed found discovered (note: belief and truth are un-alike)

People have reasons for whey do (example, giving up materialistic possessions to fulfill spiritual need for humility).

Simply giving credit to the unknown benefactor of change is blind faith. Assumption and ignorance are the same thing.

Something supernatural may or may not have happened. I am not atheist and I do believe that there are many wonderful, unexplained things that linger about in this world. What I am weary of, however, is giving too much credit to an unknown charity.

Let me illustrate with an analogy. Do you donate money to charity? Whenever you place money into that charity box (coin can), how do you know where it goes? Does faith give you an answer? If you had faith that your money was going to somewhere, say some needy children in Africa, do you think faith would change the fact that it was really going to some capitalist organization somewhere in Canada?

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I don't think they have to be canonized or ordained in a religion to be a saint.  There are many saints in heaven that are not recognized by the religious organizations on earth maybe mainly because they did their duties in private and were not recognized publicly.

As said in either of the two definitions as quoted above. My belief on this differs however. What (I think), (and note that this, along with most of what I have said is my sole opinion), is that the mortal, mundane conception of Heaven is superficial and all-to-easily accepted. I do not believe in Hell, so what is stopping me from saying that Heaven is nothing more than simply another plot device used to shape the people at the time.

In life, there is bad experience.
Spirituality is based upon the concept of an eternal reward after death, which comes about from good behavior while on Earth.
We are also taught to believe that our place in the grand cosmology of the universe is that of a school yard kid that gets beat up. God is the older brother who protects us, and legendary (and historical) nations, such as Babylon are the school yard bully that tries to oppress, but is ultimately punished for the crimes committed.
Through this older brother, and promise of salvation, hope is found.
Based on this alone, most conventional faith in God is:

1) Blind (i.e. assumption, ignorance)
2) Placebo (I have experienced change, therefore I believe. Placebo supports blind faith)
3) Fantasy (Wanting to believe that a greater, omnipotent force is protecting us from harmful forces, wanting to believe that eternal bliss is only 1 step away)

Being religious isn't an easy task, because it demands that you accept a riddled belief that merely points to one source, while evading forms of reason that act against it. And some people are just ignorant to the importance of religion.

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I believe there are some saints that should be canonized but I believe in God eyes they are, take for example Mary Agreda 350 year old body not to decompose at all and not even embalmized yet she's not a canonized saint in the catholic church.

I can't give a response to this (i.e. since I have no idea what cantonization is. About why she hasnt decayed: I'm sure there is a reason for that. I simply cannot provide one (because I have not studied into this claim). That does not mean that since I cannot respond properly, you are correct. It simply means that I am ignorant and cannot formulate a credible response.

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To generalize most religions I'd look at the new age/psychology type as the true God.

I do not even see New Age as a religion. I see it as a society of mixed philosophy and reason. Perhaps it would better be defined as a culture. Are you familiar with the furry fandom/culture? I am, and while I am not a furry, I take great interest in the culture/fandom. If you have seen the Sex2k (MTV) Fursuits and Plushies special on TV, you have just been presented with an inconclusive, inaccurate, and falsely stereotypical reality of it. The media, of course, loves to capitalize rather than exploit (a true story). There was also the Vanity Fair article I read. My thoughts are also the same.

Excuse my talk about furries and furriness here, but both cultures are exactly identical. Furriness, with its many different forms of ideas, cannot be properly defined. It is unfair to say, for example, that because I am furry (which I am not), that all aspects of the fandom apply to me (which it does not). With New Age, would it be fair to say, that because I enjoy mingling in Astral Projection, that I also hold practice to every other aspect of it.

Here is a clear definition:

1) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

or

2) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Does New Age have a spiritual leader that founded this "supposed" religion? No, of course not. Does what one person believes apply to the next person. Same as above (the answer is no). Are any of the beliefs, values, or practices homogenous to everyone involved in this "supposed" religion? No, I would not think so.

With the second definition, it gets a little sketchier. While many of us here pursue OoBE and AP with kindred passions, I do not believe that qualifies us as disciples of any religious order (i.e. New Age). It would be more accurate to say that AP and OoBe is a religion within itself, but is it? If there was such a set of beliefs and processes/rituals to follow by, how come I do not celebrate or adhere to any of them? Why is it that this religion (New Age) maintains a nature that is so cultivated, yet so individualist.

The reason, is because it is a culture.
Here are some definitions:

1) The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

2) Intellectual and artistic activity and the works produced by it.

3) Development of the intellect through training or education.

4) Enlightenment resulting from such training or education.

5) A high degree of taste and refinement formed by aesthetic and intellectual training.

I rest my case.

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God is Love and Charity and all the misery in the world is from our own mistakes or other mistakes of others and sins, not God's fault, our fault.

Your fundamentalist views are well reserved, yet missing the point I expressed. I do agree with you though. God is love and charity, not some avatar of woe that is dominated with the characteristics of sexism, barbarism, and diametric hypocrisy.

Let's raise the bar. I believe that God is not even a being at all. I refuse to define God and adhere to any belief of understanding God as something at all. Regardless of what I have just said, it would be more accurate to accept God as a process of intimacy, acceptance, and justice (by justice, I do not mean that God will smite the enemies of Man. I mean to say that everyone has what is coming to them, in one way or another).

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So one is responsible for his own actions especially the karma law.

Karma Law is an interesting process which seems to work reasonably well in theory. What I do not like is how certain disciples of the New Age culture tend to blow this out of proportion, to the point where it seems completely silly.

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But I still don't want to limit God since God is unlimited even though we think we may know everything about God none of us know him completely maybe with the exception of Jesus Christ whom try to light some information about him in the bible.

The irony is that people spend their entire lives searching for something that isn't there. God isn't outside of the, it is within them. We are not ourselves Gods as individuals, but a parts of God as pieces to a jigsaw puzzle. I think it would be fair enough to say that God lies within our very own hearts. This is where people, after all, seem to find God. This is a place of intimacy, where definition of God is both unnecessary and ridiculous.

i.e. if you closed your eyes and believed I had red hair, would that make it true even though I have brown hair? I think not. People are always changing what they feel God is, be it a force of transcendalist nature, or some transcendalist omnipresent being (or Avatar of Ignorance)

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I think when we want something we should go directly to him not some silly Rabbits Foot or lucky charm, I think you limit him to an object which God is far greater than anyone can imagine, he created the universe and life on this planet.

You are making a conclusion that is totally opposite of what I said. I do not perceive God as a definable (OBJECT), because that is ignorance. God is a state of Mu, a quintessence that only lingers once all definable property has been stripped away.

Also note: the faith you have in the idea that God created everything (indirectly) is similar to the trust Darwin theorists have in finding the missing link that connects us to our supposed evolutionist family tree. It's pretty funny, actually, because there is no proof that everything that is was shaped by any such being (and even if it is true, it is only logical to assume that such a being had a very high indirect role in the way in which the Universe and all of its spiritual prospects were formed). The same applies to evolutionist theory because there is no proof (this is getting into the mud-slinging domain of New Darwinism and Creationism Science, which I stay away from) that human existence is linked to a primate-like species origin (no, we were not descended from monkeys or apes. We were, in theory, the adaptation of a primate-like species).

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Reason I say charity and love because I am assuming God created us in his own images so he must feel the same as we feel therefore he must
of been motivated for love and charity in order to create us.

But yet, at the same time, there is no single definition as to what this image was. In bliblical times, it must have no doubt meant that God himself was human like us. I think what you say has merely become a recent, revised interpretation of the old saying, simply because times have changed (as has society), and the origins of such statements have been all but lost in the fabric of time.

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Another reason if we are explaining it characteristic wise here is Charity is non ego-istic thats another thing when one thinks he is above another person.  Almost like a humility or humble person one can't approach God in boastful way but in a humility way ie I'm merely nothing compared to God attitude same as all of us sinners approach God that way.

Humility is also the opposite of arrogance. Now put it in perspective. What do you think is healthier?

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Some saints who defended what they believed in their God were executed because they did not believe in someone elses religion.  Those you could say are self-sacrificers.

The correct term is martyr. Martyrs are people who died for a cause.

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I don't think you've studied this field too much yet.

You mean to say that I am ignorant to the field of miracles?

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go to a search engine and type incorruptible body saints or better yet go to amazon bookstore and type those keywords there are books about them. I ain't joking there are bodies with pictures mostly nuns whosse bodies have not decomposed in 350 or so years even children saints as well 100 years and they all led a very religious life. They never put washed them or put any preservatives on them still intact no rot or decay in centuries.

A fine example, Weagle! Of course, I don't know enough about Fatima, or miracles of this modern day age to given accurate response. In doing some research, I did encounter a pure evangelist site like this, which spoke down upon New Age, prophecy, and so forth. Apparently, Astral Projection and OoBe are the works of Satan?

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/miracles.htm

The essay at the link above is pathetically misdirected, and short-sighted. It assumes a literal understanding of biblical philosophy and fails to provide more than empty bluffs to support itself.

Here is another link I stumbled across, which provides a refreshing voice outside of the pro-biblical rhetoric propaganda seen almost everywhere:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qsciencedisprove.html

We might say that science is a fallible human interpretation of the observable universe while theology is a fallible human interpretation of the Scriptures.

Here is something else I found, which is Judaist theology. I found one of the quotes to hold truth in it, whereas, the rest was simply too laughable (and ludicrous) to accept.

http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/How_To_Work_Miracles_-_The_God_Factor_Part_2.asp

Oil burns because God wills it to burn. Because an environment of chaos would not be optimal for human beings to live and make choices, God wills things to operate with a high degree of consistency. Thus, when you light oil, you can expect it to burn. But God could just as well will vinegar to burn, because nature has no independent reality.


The laughable idea here is that it claims that nature does not exist and that all physical law is an illusion, much like in The Matrix and that God, who creates reality at "every second", is able to bend this illusion to whatever purpose He wishes.

Anyway, I do believe in miracles, but I do not believe that they support your understanding of God any more than they would support my understanding of God. I did do some reading on Fatima, and while it is very convincing, and even a proven historical event, I cannot accept the Christian Reality of the gospel gives as an illogical, improper reality disenfranchised of reason. Miracles only come to prove that the Universe deserves more credit than those without spiritual belief seem to understand.

The reason I feel this way (particularly even after researching up on Fatima), is because I am presented with a paradox created from two logical situations that contradict eachother. Because I am a skeptic (I do believe that every story has 2 sides to itself, as well as a background), and because I reason with a passion, I conclude that the miracle of Fatima supports Christian Reality no more than the countless contradictions and detestable evidence that opposes this same reality.

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Yes or if you want to relate to the old testament whatever you attach to I AM, you become.

I am not sure what the extension of this is. Are you suggesting that human existence is capable of achieving a state of godship / diety-ship?

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If you take suffering, the greatest thing is to learn from your mistakes or sufferings so this way you're not stuck in an endless loop of negative emotions and go spiraling down even more I've seen people think Booze or Drugs or Marijuana was their way out but it made it even worse for them they ended up evicted from their apartment.

Physical and psycological states of suffering are entirely physical, and also states of mind that can easily be rendered non-existent with proper training (i.e. Buddhist thought explores this). So where does that leave Hell and eternal suffering then, especially if the brain (a vessel of interaction with this world) is the fundamental basis of all emotion, thought, and reason?

Of course, when combined with Karmic Law (theology), things certainly become interesting.

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Jesus said the most important commandments in simplified terms is Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself which everyone must follow. So obviously killing anyone is not right.  But he also said even if you hate a person is still considered murder in your heart that is why it is important to even love your enemies as well and not judge them because you have no right to judge.

I was merely providing an argumentive example against your statement of what is defined as right and wrong. Every one has their own idea of what right and wrong is, but how does one truly define such morals?

Rules or habits of conduct, especially of sexual conduct, with reference to standards of right and wrong: a person of loose morals; a decline in the public morals.

Spiritual philosophy argues that life is sacred, and even holy in its own right, and that the destruction of it is a Sin because it demoralizes upon the sanctity of other living things. A good moral to adhere to, but one that is not without its flaws.

I have no doubt murdered many living things on this earth, ranging from small peices of vegetation to insects. Do I deserve to burn in hell eternally because of this? If not, then why? If your answer has anything to do with human existence being superior to these things, please tell me why that is so as well. In fact, tell me why insects and vegetation is any more less deserving to live on this planet than humans themselves, who contaminate the environment with their existence, burdening everything else around themselves? What I see in this form of reasoning is pride, ignorance, arrogance, narcissim, and so forth.

The truth in Jesus' words is this: trauma undermines human integrity, leading to a state of spiralling self-destruction, and even acts of Sin. By holding no hate or anger towards others, trauma is easily overcome. Love and positive thinking is also what is necessary to adhere to a happy, successful, and positive life.

Killing and murder may be right, but there are parts in the Bible that justify this.

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if you go back to those two important rules to follow so long as you have no messed up or destroyed other peoples lives, taken away their faith or something in that nature then there is no reason why God would be angry with you?

You're living in a biblical fantasy. I suggest you take a look at this little helpful link:

http://www.geocities.com/richard_holmes/laughs/dr-laura.htm

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Or like the wiccans say do whatever you like in life but harm no one similar to Jesus's quote.

Why are you using Wiccan philosophy to support your fundamentalist issues, especially after all that you have raised here?

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Dr. Murphy says evil is using the mind in the wrong ways but true its silly to blame entities for your problems there always has to be a cause and effect scenario somewhere.

Agreed. Evil is a broad, undefined euphanism, much similar to love. Try and write an academic essay on Love (or Evil) and see how far you get

It's also like the word "bonk", which apparently has more than 20 - 50 different meanings. I do not consider it a swear (since swears, in biblical context, are nothing more than misuse of the Lord's name). "bonk" is more of a slang than it is a swear. I have no idea how many meanings and uses the words "love" and "evil" have, but they certainly exceed more than 20, maybe 50.

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If we are no more or less than animals I think we lower our intelligence greatly.  Thank goodness we have a law system (law in the dictionary is also translated as Lord by the way) otherwise we'd be killing each other like in the wild-wild west gun slinger era.

Because we are part of the system of nature, we are animals ourselves. We are not above this system, nor are we masters of it.

The difference that separates us from the animals around us (i.e. cats, dogs) is that we have a very complex social-interaction system. We reason, and we are compassionate, and we are very proficient engineers at making dreams become reality (i.e. anything we can imagine, we can make – labor construction, drawing, writing, arts and crafts, anything hands-on). When we compare our capabilities and accomplishments to that of animals, we find that the difference is all too obvious.

But let's take a second to look at the intricate world of dolphin zoology. Are you aware that they are equally as intelligent, if not more intelligent than us? Human interest has taken a kin to studying these creatures, but just because they do not have any literature or pieces of artifice that we can compare with their own does not make them any less inferior to us as we are to them (in ways, yes; in others, no). Dolphins are amazing creatures, with high levels of compassion, reasoning, and problem-solving. It even seems, when one examines the way they interact with each other, that some form of culture does indeed exist among them.

There are many who believe what you say. They do not believe that animals are capable of loving others, or that they are even human (I use this term as a metaphor) in any respect. What do we define as being superior over other animal species? Why is it suitable for us to understand that we are the masters of Nature when in reality we are not?

Could it be because our standards of culture do not echo in the ways of other specie groups? I find this one particular reason to be superficial because materialism does not define whether or not animals can think, feel, love, reason, and problem-solve, or express compassion to one another (and receive it in return).

Dolphins are aquatic mammals that are unable to form any form of artifice or literature (they are underwater creatures, and they possess no limbs to do so). Studies have no doubt indicated that they are equally as human as we are, yet the only thing dividing them from us is that they have no apparent culture founded on any form of materialism (that can be studied).

In a way, I would consider this to be a good thing, because that makes them both humble, and naïve (as the Lord would have rather had us, in theory at least). Materialism (the need to possess objects and things) is the root of all money and capitalism (which are a process of trade that allows materialism to exist as an acceptable prospect within society) is no doubt selfish, so would that not be a form of "evil" in essence? Materialism, after all, is what leads people to kill, steal, and rob one another of essential things.

And since Dolphin society is not fundamentally based on the concepts of materialism, should it be no surprise that, even though they are equally as human as us, they are without the sins we have?

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Nobody is perfect in recording events. I've seen the anomalies but it's the thought that counts, not the credibility of sentences.

Prophecy is left vague because it allows us to apply it to whatever situation we want. This is one thing that humors me about tarot readings, fortune cookies, and astrology.

Fatima. Now that's something I'd love to get an expert second opinion on. I certainly don't have one available to me. I'm agnostic to this issue (Fatima).

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Take for instance when you look at the gospels, one disciple may say the same parable of Jesus slightly different way than the other one or may even say it partially wrong but gets at least the point across in general.

Are you talking about the Resurrection of the Christ? There was a link posted in regards to this, which I suggest you take a look at. Biblical inconsistency has always been a favorite pass-time of mine.

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

About the mind-boggling contradictions in Genesis: I'll have to write up about that in a separate post. I shouldn't say that I might, because I will. I'll have it posted within the next few days.

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You know I made a statement awhile back and after learning about astral projection/purgatory spirit world on this earth I came to realize it still holds true and is the most important thing is not to be obsessed in life and not to feed on another persons obsessions if the impact is negative.

Yes, the Astral Dimension does seem to resemble purgatory, in theory. It allows people to experience what ends they wish, then once having expired this prospect, they move on. The A

 They say even people who are too religious are in the astral and not moved on because they were too religious fanatics caught up in their own religion knocking others down and lacked the other qualities of life or wasn't even considered a spiritual person.  So there has to always be a balance in life I think.  I like saying it this way if you become too compulsive to drink you become a compulsive alcoholic (not treating the temple of god right).  Same as eating, same as gambling, same as negative emotions, same as etc.. etc..
 

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You are or in other words it makes sense you make mistakes you are bound to make more mistakes as a medium, most mediums are not even mediums they're just great BS'ers.

...Who simply know what people want to hear? Yes, I keep a skeptic eye to mediums who enterprise on human curiosity as well >.>

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Every preacher has his own interpretation of the bible and usually it's the capitalistic way not the theologian way ie they always like to quote about tithing all your money to them.

If I am correct, the bible was not meant to be interpreted beyond the way it was written. I've read about how many sources have tried to revise the bible to make it more politically correct, update it, intrepret Genesis in a way that compensates for scientific theory. I disagree with all of these things. The gospel should not be altered, changed, or interpreted beyond how it was written (at the time).

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Or they got the news/apocalypse hour they instill fear or false prophecies (ie hal lindsey they debunked him the show penn teller's Bulls*t last week how they sell books on fear and the prophecies never came true).

The other day, while in Safeway, I saw on one certain tabloid a picture of Jesus Christ in flames. The cover story was that in the Challenger explosion (the one that recently happened), the face of Jesus had appeared. Tabloids are full of crap. If I were to read, one, I would do so for entertainment (more or less to laugh at the stories).

Also, are you aware that all psychic services, for the most part, are labelled under a catagory of "entertainment" or "entertainment services"?

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The only religious channel I have a little respect for is probably EWTN (catholic channel). They bring on theologians who have a degree or atleast some credentials and talk about spiritual life and not brainwash you to give them the money and they also work on a break even basis just to cover costs, not to have fancy studios or drive fancy cars or ride on fancy jets etc..  

And the fact that TV and capitalism go hand and hand surprises you (it may not). Rather than getting mad, look at it as something laughable and humourous.

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I think 99.99% of the time it's what you describe but it still remains the 0.01% got their healing without having to work out much of their faith just have a little of it (read about the fatima incident about the miracle of the sun people who were healed etc..).

Oh, I am openly supportive to the possibility of miracles (and healings). Some are born naturally with this ability (to heal). Others can (seem, in theory) to develop it (i.e. through N.E.W. for example / through development of the Bio-Etheric Chakra Energy System)

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Well as the years progress as we pay more and more taxes we are leaning back towards a communist system cause money in some sense is freedom and like I mentioned before god doesn't likeatheism/communism (look at the fatima incident).

The politicians always come up with more excuses to dump taxes on us. Why is it that the taxes, which were imposed so many years ago to fulfill and already fulfilled reason, still remain? I really despise wasteless spending. I wish hope Jean Chretien's political successor does more for the Western provinces of Canada than he ever did.

It's not the peoples fault it's the dictator leaders fault.

When you were speaking of these nations, were you speaking of the people? No, of course not. Yet here we are arguing over the state of nations (as a whole), and yet, when I present Iraq as an example, you speak only of the dictator and not of the nation itself. You seem to be tripping over yourself. How can one say blessed are nations or not-blessed are nations... if when referring to nations, we are not even referring to the nations themselves at all?

Democracy is good if all people are treated equally but that is never the case. Usually politicians pretend to be but they are the greatest BS'ers, they only want the peoples votes once they are in their character changes.

No political ideology EVER works out in theory.

[Tarconiss]

uuhh... Looking over these posts..... more like glideing over them....... How do you find the time and/or patience to respond to each of these 'mega-paragraphs'...... sorry.... I'm just tired, and i was just thinking of the effort you guys seemed to put into makeing those posts.....

[Leviiathan]

quote:Originally posted by Tarconiss

uuhh... Looking over these posts..... more like glideing over them....... How do you find the time and/or patience to respond to each of these 'mega-paragraphs'...... sorry.... I'm just tired, and i was just thinking of the effort you guys seemed to put into makeing those posts.....

It can often take 2 - 3 hours. Time does fly by. That's not a lot of time for me. Since I type fast, it actually should take less time to reply. The problem is that I get distracted by other things (i.e. messengers).

It isn't out-of-the-blue for me to just let the AP forums idle in the background while I attend to other things. [] I like posting here.

[Squeek]

Wow...erm...umm?

Dang.  I spent 5 minutes reading all of that.  What a load of quotes...  Now i get to quote something.

quote:By LeviiathonHey, this Crystal Power Rod looks interesting. I think I'll buy it, then use it to reincarnate Jesus as a woman. Maybe I can even summon God, Satan, and throw one big party where we can play Dance Dance Revolution

LOL!  Nice.  That's the way.

One day, someones gonna post a huge thing of quotes, and im gonna quote Linkin Park.  Seriously.  What do you think I'm listening to right now?

Also, i am a fast typer.. all of this took me maybe 3 minutes...  but it doesnt even matter, because this whole topic is about this little device that you pay alot of money for...

Isn't that an informercial?

What do we do about informercials? We MOCK THEM!!!  Heehee.

~Squeek (post as meaningless as the topic)  

[weagle]

i saw a weird device at http://www.futurehorizons.net/time2.htm you attach to your head and naval and it sends alpha signal of 7.8 to your body to help you astral project but whats even weirder it has a time dial so you can set which time past/future if you want to astral project.  I can understand the first part about 7.8 alpha waves in brain being valid but does this device really work or joke money scheme?