How about a small test of telephathy

[Alan McDougall]

Hi guys,

What about an attempt at telepathy as you the target and me the influencer from a far distance  So I will try to influence your choice by just thinking


First I want to stress that you must do the simple exercise below by not thinking about but just drawing whatever comes into your mind "Get a pencil and paper" please only then scroll; down and view the very simple task If you find it of interest we can try others


Draw what immediately comes into your mind and PLEASE DON'T POST WHAT YOU HAVE DRAWN. I WANT TO WAITE UNTIL A GOOD FEW HAVE READ THIS THREAD AND ALSO RESPONDED TO IT BEFORE I TELL YOU WHAT MOST OF YOU HAVE DRAWN ON YOUR PAPER


OK Now you can scroll down and try!!!






































"try to draw an object inside another object making certain you have circumventing logic and drawn exactly what first popped into your mind

[Vitruvian]

Hi Alan,
Great experiment!
Vitruvian
PS - I would like to discuss this with you after you complete this experiment, as I had a very positive previous experience doing this with someone. However, we set it up quite differently.

[Vitruvian]

Alan,
How about an update - are you getting indications that people will cooperate with this experiment?
Vitruvian

[Alan McDougall]

Vitruvian,

Alan,
How about an update - are you getting indications that people will cooperate with this experiment?
Vitruvian

I see 26 people have read the thread and only you seem to have taken an interest, I will wait I little longer and if no one else response I will give you what I think most people drew.

I belong to another forum and proposed the same test to them at the same time so I will include what they  came up with for your interest. Lets wait until Tuesday 20.00hrs GMT

Alan

[Beero]

I've tried it too

[Alan McDougall]

Hi guys, I post these results early due to time zones and I think the really interested have all come on board

The great reveal of the fallible psychic come mystic.

Before I reveal what I attempted to influence you to draw, I would like to emphasise how absolutely infinitesimly minutely vanishingly small it would be to even come remotely close, to even one of you guys to drawing the correct object.

I asked you to draw two objects one inside the other, correct?. I just want you to stop here and ask you to think of the billions or zillions of objects there are out there combined by the unlikelyhood of you drawing two of them, one inside of the other. Got me point I hope? I generalised the whole experiment leaving it wide open by not specifying geometrical shapes or objects of nature etc etc.

Just to emphazise how even more how unlikely it is for me to even have "one hit", we must consider the tiny number of people participating in this experiment. Rhine and Co when trying to verify and validate the truth of psychic abilities such as telephathy etc, used huge numbers of participants, who took hundreds of thousands of tests and found only a tiny mnute deviation from chance.

Strangly sometimes these deviations were in the negative direction, seeming to indicate that just by experimenting less positive results where sometimes the result, no matter how hard the participants tried to project the image

As an Industrial/ Mechanical Engineer I have some knowledge of statistics and proberbility facturisation

That's my two cents worth, first read just a few of the objects/shapes amongst the almost infinity of possible shapes you might have chosed to draw, and only then scoll down and see how close I got.   

Read just a few of the type of shapes or objects below that, you might have drawn and then take into consideration I asked you to draw one inside the other making the whole exercise even more difficult



•   polygon
o   concave polygon
o   constructible polygon
o   convex polygon
o   cyclic polygon
o   decagon
o   digon
o   dodecagon
o   enneagon
o   equiangular polygon
o   equilateral polygon
o   henagon
o   hendecagon
o   heptagon
o   hexadecagon
o   hexagon
   Lemoine hexagon
o   icosagon
   swastika
o   octagon
o   pentagon
o   regular polygon
   regular decagon
   regular octagon
   regular pentagon
o   star without crossing lines
o   star polygon
   decagram
   octagram
   star of Lakshmi (octagram)
   heptagram
   star of David, hexagram
   pentagram
•   triangle
o   acute triangle
o   anticomplementary triangle
o   equilateral triangle
o   excentral triangle
o   isosceles triangle
o   medial triangle
o   obtuse triangle
o   rational triangle
o   right triangle
   30-60-90 triangle
   isosceles right triangle
   Kepler triangle
o   scalene triangle
o   Reuleaux triangle
•   parallelogram
o   equilateral parallelogram: rhombus
   Lozenge
o   rhomboid
•   Penrose tile
•   rectangle
•   rhombus
•   square
•   trapezium
o   isosceles trapezium
•   quadrilateral
o   cyclic quadrilateral, tetrachord
o   kite
o   tangential quadrilateral
o   trapezoid
   isosceles trapezoid
•   polydrafter
•   annulus
•   arbelos
•   circle
o   disc
o   Archimedes' circle
o   Bankoff circle
o   circumcircle
o   excircle
o   incircle
o   nine-point circle
•   circular sector
•   circular segment
•   crescent
•   various lemniscates
•   lune
•   oval
•   Reuleaux polygon
•   rotor
o   lens, vesica piscis (fish bladder)
o   Reuleaux triangle
•   sphere
•   semicircle
•   triquetra
•   Yin-Yang
•   tomoe, Archimedean spiral
•   astroid, paracycle, cubocycloid
•   deltoid
•   ellipse
•   smoothed octagon
•   super ellipse
•   tomahawk


Triangles -- triangle object and related functions.
Faces -- face object and related functions.
Surfaces -- surface object and related functions

And all these could be flat or three dimensional!

Now scroll righht down!!




























































































































This is what I tried to get you guys to draw. Either a circle with a triangle inside or the reverse.

The naughty ones who took a little time to think about it might have drawn a circle with a square or box inside, but what did really first come into your mind

If I am not remotely correct then I must admit as a remote influencing telepath I am a failure, but that is OK with me as the experiments was fun

alan[/size][/color]

[mjm]

I never wrote down anything, but within 5 seconds had clearly percieved a triangle within a circle, and somehow knew this is what you would post.

Was this a trick? Hmmm... gonna have to go look back at your first post for any subliminals 

-Michael

[mjm]

"circumventing logic" - not sure what this meant... probably made me think of a circle. Not sure where the triangle came from though, lol.

[Stillwater]

I thought of a smaller animal inside a circular hole in larger one (symbolizing that the smaller was "in his tummy"); this is a strange idea, I know, but this is the first thing I thought of, and that is what the experiment called for- but I also did not draw a depiction of it, as I was merely curious to see the result.

I am afraid that I highly disagree with this being a test of telepathy though, as even though you didn't specify a geometric object, the phrase "circumventing logic" implied something circumscribed within a circle, and a triangle is one of the most common shapes anyone immediately would think of (no one is going to first think NONAGON!!! when they see this, lol.

But it is still interesting that there was a match, I will give you that

I would be interested to see another go at this experiment where you try to avoid subliminal cues, as mjm pointed out, maybe there might still be a hit....

[Beero]

that's amazing!  I got a triangle and a circle
I'd be interested to know what influencing technique you used

[Vitruvian]

OK, peeps, what I saw was an inverted triangle in a circle, line drawings, both black, on a white background. It flashed into my mind immediately upon reading the final sentence of Alan's first post.
Vitruvian

[Thegreensaber]

i got a red face inside a orange car inside a green traffic lift weird huh?

[RemoteTouch]

I drew a circle with in a circle

[Alan McDougall]

HELLO ASTRAL FORUM

I have consolidated our results with that of another forum who did the same test at the same time with me.
                                                                                     
The Experiment was    "try to draw an object inside another object making certain you have circumventing logic and drawn exactly what first popped into your mind"


THIS FORUMS RESULTS:...................................??

Vitruvian drew: AN INVERTED TRIANGLE INSIDE A CIRCLE !00% HIT

Mjm drew: Drew the exact shape a circle inside a triangle 100% hit

Stillwater drew: A circle with an animal inside. 50% hit
(Stillwater said it was not telepathy and this is true)

007 Drew: the exact shape and was amazes100% hit

RemoteTouch drew: a circle within a circle a 50%hit





RESULTS FROM THE OTHER FORUM EXACT SAME EXPERIMENT AT THE SAME TIME

                                                                                                  
Experiment was    "try to draw an object inside another object making certain you have circumventing logic and drawn exactly what first popped into your mind"
   

I THINK I WALKED THE WALK NOT JUST TALKED TO TALK MAN!!! I PUT MYSELF FAR OUT ON A LINE DON'T YOU THINK
 


BETS: DREW  A CHICKEN AND CHICK INSIDE  50%HIT                                                         

VARGA DREW:   BOX WITH A CIRCLE INSIDE (PICKED UP TRIANGLE BUT RATIONALIZED THIS AWAY)  100% HIT                   

SHSS DREW: A CIRCLE WITH A TRIANGLE INSIDE 100%  EXACT HIT

LUCY DREW: A POLYGON SHOWING SHE IS AN "OUT OF THE BOX THINKER"  (A POLYGON IS ANY ODD SHAPE)         

ALYSIA DREW: A BOX WITH A CIRCLE INSIDE 100% HIT (ONLY YOUR FIRST DRAWING COUNTED)
         

LIGHT OF LOVE DREW: A CIRCLE WITH A TRIANGLE INSIDE 100% EXACT HIT

JUDITHA DREW: A CIRCLE WITH A TRIANGLE INSIDE 100%EXACT HIT

CRICKET DREW: A BALLOON INSIDE A FLOWER?? 50%HIT                                                                 


SPOOKY DREW: AN OLD TELEPHONE (A SQUARE WITH A ROUND DIAL WHICH IS A CIRCLE) A 100% HIT

"THIS IS WHAT THE WICKED WIZARD MADE YOU DRAW"

(1) A CIRCLE WITH A TRIANGLE INSIDE OR THE REVERSE
(2) A CIRCLE WITH A SQUARE OR BOX INSIDE OR THE REVERSE

"(NOTE BOTH THE ABOVE I CONSIDER AS CORRECT AS THIS IS WHAT I PROJECTED)"

"BEWARE MERE MORTALS I CAN INFLUENCE THE WHOLE WORLD JUST LIKE I DID YOU"


MAYBE WE CAN TRY A SIMILAR TEST OFF TOPIC SOMETIME

IT WAS FUN
ALAN

[Vitruvian]

Alan,
From my initial response to you (see above)

what I saw was an inverted triangle in a circle, line drawings, both black, on a white background. It flashed into my mind immediately upon reading the final sentence of Alan's first post

Vitruvian

[Alan McDougall]

Vitruvian

I am so sorry I have modified the results and included your drawing.

As you showed real interest I might reveal to you how i did this almost impossible experiment!

I would first like you to think about it and give me your idea on how I did it.

alan

[Vitruvian]

Alan et al,
I have two ideas.

One would be somehow having and using some knowledge of suggestion. I've certainly seen many stage magicians doing wonderful things that appear to be impossible. I've also participated in this type of thing online, whereby the 'operator' appears to know ahead of time what I will input. So of course anything in that vein would be fun but not in the realm of showing psychic ability.

Second idea - in the arena of psychogenically produced images, which I was hoping for here, I will tell you of a successful experiment I participated in; you will see why I was so interested in your attempt. A two-person experiment, whereby one person would act as 'projector' and the other would receive. We decided on a time of one hour, where the projector (my companion) would concentrate on sending an image as often as possible. Obviously the receiver (me) would try to discern the image. In a word, success! Within that one hour period, I visualized one and only one image. It appeared in my minds eye for just a flash, maybe 800 milleseconds. It seemed somewhat like those old 35mm slides, i.e., a smallish (roughly the size your thumbnail would occlude in your field-of-view at 1' from your eyes) darker image with a lighter border.  She told me only she would transmit 'an image', so I don't believe she inadvertently fed me any ideas as to what I might see. I should also relate that I worked hard to put myself into a very receptive state of mind, specifically using some techniques to open both my heart and crown chakras.

Results: I saw what I interpreted as a whitish, blurry diamond shape, laying on it's side. Be aware I'm a jeweler  . This might have 'flavored' my interpretation. What she later told me she projected was a 'brilliant white solid triangle on a black background'. So, take a pyramid, blur two of three angles (top and right-hand side) and that's exactly what I saw.

I tell you truly, I've never seen this type of image before or since. It was not the type of thing you conjure up with eyes closed. And, drum roll, you should know that I was located in the US and my partner was located in Australia during this experiment, 15 hours apart. I actually was expecting to see nothing and later have her tell me she was sending a kangaroo image or something like that.

Vitruvian
PS - Hey Nell, are you out there?

[Alan McDougall]

Vitruvian,

before we go into the area of whether i am the "real thing or not". Consider this I said draw an object within an object and what did you guys do? You all drew a geometrical shape instead. Dictionary Readers Digest"

An "OBJECT" IS MATERIAL THING THAT CAN BE SEEN AND TOUCHED

A SHAPE IS THE FORM OF SOMETHING REPRESENTED AS AN OUTLINE ON PAPER

Now did I not really put myself way out on a line when I said draw an OBJECT??. guys an object simply can be anything you see around you and you had billions of option to choose from, but no this wizard made all you guys this forum as well as the other, draw shapes and ignore what i said when i clearly stated draw "OBJECTS"

I want you to muse about this fact, can the so called magician's you referred to do the same thing with over thirty complete strangers from thousands of miles away in South Africa where i live, as i did. Think about this

Oh!! Vituvian I did a quick sweep of your abode, you like wooden furniture or anything wood, I saw a bar glasses and what looked like a stainless steel tray. Also the dining area is nice, wooden table and that picture on the wall a nice landscape. Of course i could be wrong as i just thought of your name and have listed out of curiosity what i saw for you.

regards

Alan

[Stillwater]

Although I do believe in the reality of para-psychological phenomena such as remote veiwing and the like, I must say that I am still highly unconvinced of this instance, lol.

I still agree with and accede to you the idea that it is extremely unlikely that so many people would produce so similar an image, and also as a perfect hit- this only implies that there must be an equally extraordinary explanation of what happened, be it paranormal or psychological.

It is true that an Object can imply a numberless set of things, but it is possible that other cues in your message, such as I have listed, implied the figure you intended.

______________________________________________

Consider:

1) The phrase "circumventing logic" that you used in your description immediately implies a circle to most people, and places the image of a circle in the subconscious

2)It is true that an Object can imply a numberless set of things, but it is possible that other cues in your message, such as I have listed, implied the figure you intended- the fact that you asked people to draw what they were picturing immediately gave people the subconscious idea to think of something that could easily be conveyed in a simple linear drawing, and what simpler things are there to draw than geometric figures?

3)People gravitate toward simplicity before they consider the complex, and circles and triangles are among the simplest geometric figures.

______________________________________________

Please don't take my skepticism of this instance personally- I do not think that the paranormal principle it suggests is at all impossible, as on the contrary, I am convinced of its reality; rather, I am only suspicious of this particular case, as the wording to me seems connected with the result. Please, furthermore, do not take my message as a vendetta, for as you have mentioned, I am simply having fun as well trying to determine what has happened in this surprising case

Stillwater

[mjm]

If you notice, Alan used the word "try" about 3 or 4 times in the original posting. "Try" obviously sounds like "tri", which means 3. It's repeated usage could have suggested a 3 sided object to ones subconcious.

[Stillwater]

If you notice, Alan used the word "try" about 3 or 4 times in the original posting. "Try" obviously sounds like "tri", which means 3. It's repeated usage could have suggested a 3 sided object to ones subconcious.

Well, I am doing the best I know, lol  .....

Care to venture a solution? 

[Alan McDougall]

mjm

You are sharp,

Of course using subliminal message like tri to influence you to draw a "tri" tryangle can and does work.
This is the way the media and advertising takes our so-called free will from us

Is big brother already out there, yes he is and take it from me I am a very small brother by comparison

Of course in my case that is not the whole answer as i have done reverse

I would like you to consider trying to duplicate what i did on friend colleagues or any other means an report back. I will share my knowledge later after you report back

Alan 

[Vitruvian]

I'm posting this for Alan, he lost the thread - Vitruvian   

Hello forum,

I have thought how to put over the method of accessing our innate psychic ability that I believe resides within all of us, some more than in others. Some of us using an analogy can sing with great beauty with no training and others by perseverance and training can learn to sing very nicely. Even the worst person can croak out a song of some sort or the other.

Again, another analogy would be to swim, we can all float on water, but the person but a person who thinks he cannot swim will thrash around in the water and drown himself. All he had to do was roll over a lay on his back and keep floating with small movements of his hands. The best swimmer knifes through the water like a torpedo effortlessly. Note I was an excellent competitive swimmer in my youth, so I know what I am talking about and identify with these analogies very well...Oh I can also sing, really guys, but that is off the topic.

Now some of you are properly muttering to yourselves what the heck! How does singing or swimming relate to psychic ability?

Well we can all swim or sing cant, we especially if we overcome fear and just dive in do it diregarding the consquences. Likewise, within the psychic field we all have this innate ability if we practice to perfect it.


So how would one approach this, I always think of the case of the bumblebee,  an eminent group of scientists, physicists and aerodynamic experts examined this little bug. They merged all their combined wisdom expertise and knowledge, saying this is a case of evolution gone wrong, looks at the atrophied little wings and fat heavy little body it can't possible fly? The little bumblebee not knowing he could not fly took off and flew out of the window, dumb -strucking the learned idiots (just a little story of mine to make a point) ha ha

Now I will do my best to give my take on the psychic field of the metaphysical. Some go through thousands of thousands of monotonous test to see if anyone can show a minute deviation from chance.  With very little much success I am afraid. Others when attempting telepathy for example, the transmitter looks at a picture contorting his face  concentrating to the point of oblivion while the receiver does the same at exactly the same time.

There migh be very brief hits by this method, very brief, I must add. Now one must not try to believe that telepathy is possible or not also, there is no need to synchronize time. There is no need to go into mental gymnastics either. There is also no need to try to believe in it!! 

Just tell the person whom you want to do the experiment, with in total disbelief if you like as it will make no difference to the result. Now the sender can select anything he likes to transmit or just occasionally look at it once and leave it at that... One does not have to believe it will happen, just go with the flow as I did man!! The receiver can wait for a moment a day or a week but if he is patient, he will receive the image.

Oh!! Don't be afraid of missing the target just say with guts and courage what comes into your mind if you are the receiver. The sender must relax man, relax doubt as much as you want, be the greatest singer if you like, and just start singing or slicing through the psychic water or air. Easy does easy go. I walked the walk and did not just talk the talk as you all know.

Give it a go between friends 

Why does time, locations, or looking at the object or picture for protracted periods not really matter? It is due to the timeless inter-connectivity what I call the Super-consciousness. Some call it the cosmic mind and that is also OK What I do is relax sit back and plug my mind into this source and just know what I want to know, easy as that my friends.

We can plug into our primitive internet why not into the source of all knowledge, past present and future

Well give it a go or shoot me down mighty experts out there. (I am not referring to you my forum friends)

Regards

Alan 

By Alan McDougall 5/6/2008

[Alan McDougall]

vitruvian



The trick in a sense seems to be to cultivate the art of 'not doing'. Of simply resting with a still mind and an open awareness, and waiting for what comes in. Passively seeing 'what is'. And not reacting with thought to the resulting experience.

This is core of what I was trying to convey "not doing "I like this expression, it gets closer to what I was attempting to put over. Just the act by controlling a psychic test nearly always results experiment failing.  Strange as it seems a very neutral position of not caring the "heck" about the outcome or success of the test and "the less one know about the subject one is projecting thoughts at, the more accurate the results. It is back-to- forward sort of thing.

Just one vague look at the picture projected at total stranger results in amazing results or hits. There is no necessity to synchronize the projector and receiver watches or know anything about their physical location. All this is available and by "plugging" into the Cosmic mind, relaxing and waiting for the image to appear in ones mind eye, In the " Super-consciousness" everthing or all knowledge is there for us to access

By just letting it all hang out, be brave, and say what  appears as some sort of an after image in the minds eye, in the third eye namely in what I call eyelid visions... All I do is for instance I just think about a name, relax and look what appears on my eyelids. I don't even write it down, just put it into the closet of my mind and write it down the next morning. For example when I did the remote viewing excrement a while back, it was the people I knew more about that I got wrong. Doc my knowing he was a doctor colored my mind with false pictures of what I perceived a doctors office would look like.

The concept is so easy that is difficult to explain, am I getting anywhere with this??

Bets,

You don't need to love the person you are doing the experiment with, but off course this would help immensely

Alan