Lucid Dream to OBE

Frozen Spirit · August 06, 2008, 18:25:31

Okay, so I'm going to give the lucid dream to OBE techniques more consideration. My question is, how will you know when you are no longer dreaming and are now astral projecting? Are things more clear, like real life or will they still have a dreamy/hazy type of feel to them. Also how do they feel when you wake up? Do they have the hazy feeling, like lucid dreams?

Impermanence · August 07, 2008, 15:29:02

I used Lucid Dream most of the time to have OBE. There is really a 'transition' involved and most of the time I did it, there was no doubt in my mind that it was no longer a dream. In my couple of first experience, when I had a lucid dream, I only imagined my astral body floating upward into the ceiling. That was enough to make the dream world fade and trigger the vibrations.

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 15:47:43

Thanks. So what made it so distinguishable as an OBE. Everytime I've tried transitioning from a LD to an OBE, I believe I just ended up dreaming about an OBE, because it felt exactly the same.

Impermanence · August 07, 2008, 17:30:38

Well, it depend on the experience. I had about 20 OBE so far. In some it felt about the same as a lucid dream, but in some other ones it was as real as physical reality. It depend mostly on how much control you have over your experience and your clarity of perception. For example, in one of my OBE I put up the intent to visit a physical friend I haven't seen in a while. After a brief sense of movement, I opened my eyes. I was lying down on a bed, in a small room. The experience felt so real that I was certain I had somehow ended up physically in that room. After that, I opened my physical eyes and I was left speechless.

I know that for me, in a lucid dream, you don't really have the sense of being in a body 'somewhere'. For me, it's more like seeing vivid images, hearing sounds, etc. but I rarely have the impression of being somewhere. In an OBE, I can breathe, I felt the air around me, felt the 'momentum' when I am moving, etc. Those things are almost never there in a lucid dream. Also, the environment doesn't react the same way. In a lucid dream, you can transform the sense just by turning around. Not in an OBE, everything seem more 'stable'. I don't know if you tried to stay still in a lucid dream and to concentrate in nothing in particular. Most of the time this as the effect of making the dream world fade. This would not be the case in an OBE.

Anyway, those are just my impressions so far from my experience. The best way to know is still to experience the two states and compare.

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 20:42:21

Yeah I've been working on that, because I can lucid dream for the most part whenever I choose to. I've been doing various Lucid Dream to OBE techniques and it always just feels like I'm dreaming about an OBE, not actually experiencing one. Which confused me, because if OBE and Lucid Dreams "feel" the same, then it is possible I've experienced an OBE and just not realized it because it felt the same as a lucid dream.

the-ownage · August 07, 2008, 22:15:59

This is the same method I have used every time I've had an OBE. It's called a Dream Conversion and I believe you can't lucid dream about having an OBE; that's like having control and going out of your body. To answer your question. As long as you leave your body, and you have control, it's an OBE.

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 22:48:37

Okay, I definitely 100% don't agree with that at all. I try avoiding saying things such as "I know I'm right", but I know I'm right when I say you can lucid dream about having an OBE. I have done it countless times. Trust me, I have been lucid dreaming for well over a year now and I know what they feel like and how I can manipulate certain objects in the lucid dream. I have, on several occasions, tried to OBE from a lucid dream and just simply redirected the dream to my bedroom, where I dreamt I was OBEing. How do I know I was lucid dreaming? Because on several occasions, I lost lucidity when trying to OBE. I still remember the rest of the dream, but I wasn't truly in control, I was merely dreaming what it would be like to have an out of body experience.

the-ownage · August 07, 2008, 22:58:35

I was giving you my honest opinion. In that case, half the members on this forum could be experiencing a lucid dream of an OBE, which would suck. I can usually tell the difference because of the steps in achieving an OBE are always the same for me. I always start at my body laying there during the vibrational state, and I choose to get out by doing different things. If I were to lucid dream about having an OBE, I wouldn't have the tingling state, would I?

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 23:06:30

Lucid dreams can be quite real at times. I've felt "pain", obviously not real pain, but I've pinched myself in a dream and felt the pinching sensation, which was produced by my brain. What would stop the mind from producing a sensation of tingling during a lucid dream? Emotions and feelings are a very real part of dreaming, if they weren't, then I wouldn't have spent as much time as I did mastering lucid dream induction. I can feel when I fly, I can feel when I talk to a deceased loved one, I can feel when I pinch myself or hit myself.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you aren't experiencing an OBE, I believe you when you say you are. However, I believe it to be a fallacy to state that just because you can feel and are in control doesn't mean you are having an out of body experience, because both of those are also characteristics of dreaming. I'm trying to learn what is a distinguishable difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection and so far all I have accepted from the opinions of others is OBEs can "sometimes" be clearer than lucid dreams, which leaves my curiosity, needless to say, less than satisfied.

the-ownage · August 07, 2008, 23:13:38

I see your point, and it's a good one. However I've just found that when I'm in the process of projecting, I don't think about the state I'm about to be in, as I only focus on one step at a time. It would be incredible if maybe there is something about your theory. Maybe they are the same thing, but different ways of achieving it. There's a possibility for everything. I can see how this question has you kinda curious. Is there anything you can't do while lucid dreaming about an OBE that you can in a normal OBE?

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 23:22:57

See that's my problem, I have no idea if I've ever had an OBE or not, because I only know what lucid dreams feel like and each and every time I've tried attained an OBE from a lucid dream, it has only felt like I've been dreaming about having an OBE. It will either have the same fogginess when I wake up, or I won't truly be 100% lucid or I still see odd stuff like bright blue grass. And although I do consider myself "advanced" at "inducing" lucid dreams, I still consider myself very novice at lucid dreaming in general. There are many many things I can't do in lucid dreams and one problem in particular is shape shifting. Many many people claim they can shape shift in their dreams, I for the life of me cannot. I usually end up a mix of human and whatever else I was trying to change into. Trust me, I've plenty of times ended up a half human- half wolf mix and it's downright frustrating(and disturbing). I know its a mental block that needs to be overcome, but since I can't shapeshift, I don't automatically assume I'm having an out of body experience and am limited by the rules of the astral plane. You see what I'm saying? It's hard to tell a difference, because I am not always 100% in control of my dreams and always be limited in some way or another in my dreams. Now even if I overcome this problem, I'm sure another one will come up, just like getting stuck inside walls once was for me.

the-ownage · August 07, 2008, 23:30:24

As far as shape shifting goes, that's way out of my league. haha. Wish I could help--... maybe in time.

Frozen Spirit · August 07, 2008, 23:40:26

Basically, in a nutshell, I'm trying to understand the different state of consciousness between the two.
I don't really know how to explain what I mean, but here goes.

For example:
I'm sitting here at my computer desk right now, in the same state of consciousness I currently have. I all of sudden realize I'm dreaming. Truth be told, I won't go and try to fly away because in the waking life I am terrified of heights and even though I'm dreaming, I still have my state of waking consciousness which will say "hell no, I'm not flying". Just like if I walked out side and saw all the grass was bright blue like it is in my dreams. I know I will be dreaming, but that doesn't mean I'm going to run full force into a wall and hope to go through. My brain will say "don't do it dumbass, ya gonna get hurt.", even though I won't.

However, I fly all the time in my lucid dreams and I'm not afraid. Why? Is it because I know I'm dreaming? No. It's because I have a different state of consciousness than when I'm awake. It's almost as if I'm a different person and my brain truly knows that I can't get hurt. I'm not afraid to try new things and be daring in dreams, because my consciousness is completely different.

Well so far, I have 2 consciousness(different people if you will) that I'm aware of. I'm trying to figure out if you when you astral project, do you awaken a third consciousness?

I know that is a horrible description of what I'm saying, but it's really hard to put in words.

the-ownage · August 07, 2008, 23:55:12

I think I get where you are coming from.

I can't put a name to what would "be" the 3rd consciousness. We know that we have a physical body (1st consciousness) and an astral body (2nd consciousness). You are saying you have different fears (none) in your astral body so you decide to call this a separate consciousness, when in fact, you are just comparing your physical body (scared of heights) to your astral body (flying around way up high).

Impermanence · August 07, 2008, 23:58:04

Like I said, everything is better experienced for yourself. I have had hundereds and hundreds of Lucid dream, so I know what they feel like. I had lucid dream since I was a kid, so I got a general idea of how real they can get. However, I still think you only need to have one or two OBE to really know how it feel like. There is a difference between the two states. It's like if someone tell you an experience you had while awake was a dream. The difference is obvious. If you can't feel it, you didn't have an OBE. You can tell the difference, you have memories of before and after the experience, and there is a difference from that and that of a dream.

For me, waking memories and OBE are exactly of the same degree. That is why if someone was to tell me those experiences were just dreams, I'd say they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
If you can't tell the difference, you need to practice more.

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Lucid Dream to OBE