Taught By A Demon/NEG

[Prophazuh]

A little over a month ago as I was laying in bed (attempting to go OOB), I felt something holding me down. I immediately thought that it must be the usual Demon/NEG that bothers me most of the time (when I have an OBE that is). I was saying God-related things directed toward myself and the Demon to empower myself. I had broke-free from its hold before but this time was different. It seemed like it became stronger. I was focusing on me being strong and visualizing white energy/light in and around me. I was beginning to feel as if I was being charged up (best was I can describe it), I felt powerful. I saw my mid-section rise and saw my muscles contract. I was still unable to escape...Next thing I know, I was in what appeared to be like an attic. I saw the enemy (?) standing at a distance of like 20 feet from me. It looked-like some metallic robot, which I'm sure that this is not how it really looks or so I think. It was walking slowly toward me. I began to visualize electricity around it and things that were metallic attracting to it like a magnet. I now saw things flying toward it with electricity, just as I had imagined.

By the way, this is one of the experiences in which I was extremely confident in my abilities and I was completely fearless. I think it shot electricity/energy at me (or that's what I thought was going to happen), so I imagined (and said in my mind) of a protective shield around me. Once again, I felt like I was charged up and actually felt the shield around me. All of a sudden, the Demon somehow was controlling my movement and was making me move through a series of electricity/energy rings. It's like I was being taught or tested as to how long I can hold my focus/thought on the protective shield I had created previously. As I was going through these rings, I was thinking whether I should purposely lose my focus but then I thought "what if this electricity/energy touches me without my shield" (something like that), so I remained focused. I don't know how, but I saw numbers representing how much rings I have gone through and how much was left. I completed it...I was now on this table with this Demon or whatever looking at me (not sure what it looked-like at this moment) with this HUGE hammer-type of weapon. From the bottom of my feet to the top of my head, it started to pretend like it was going to hit my over the area the weapon was currently above. Since I didn't know that it was pretending, I flinched a few times when the hammer came close to my body. I soon realized that I was being tested on how fearless I am and/or how much I trust this thing. He progressively moved up my body lowering the hammer quickly and stopping a few inches above my body. It finally got to my face, the hammer came down really close and I didn't flinch. I felt like I did good (I would've did great/perfect if I had realized sooner what was taking place)...

I ran/flew away before it could catch up not because I was scared but because I was curious (as always) as to what was in this place that I was in, I wanted to explore. I saw some spider-webs hanging from the ceiling and avoided them. I saw several rooms and I went in one of them. It was small, it had a small T.V. in it, it had this thing that had like 1 or 2 doors with a glass or plastic frame and...I tried to visualize...I saw people in the reflection of the frame and I tried to go in to escape (I wanted to leave that place but not by going back to my physical body). It surrounded me, like a bubble. I thought I might be trapped and forced myself out. I was now trying to think of me instantly being in another place or something but instead, I just kept accidentally creating extra floors. I did this a few times and I believe there was a total of like 5 floors created unintentionally by me. I was going up the stairs to see what was up there and to escape. There were 2 dudes that were chasing me. I visualized 1 or both of their clothes become hot and burning. Almost instantaneously, I started to see fire/lava forming and they reacted just like one would do in real life...Then, I saw this old man in a wheel-chair (not sure if someone was helping him to get around). I imagined the same thing as before, which is fire on his clothes and saw a small portion of his pants ignite. I decided to Phase back to my body (there's a slight chance that I returned unwillingly) because it seemed like it was the only way I could leave that strange place.

I tried my best to put the details in the above description in order in which they occured but I cannot gurantee that they are (like the part about the rooms that I saw may have been on one of the floors instead). This experience lasted almost/about an hour long.

Anyone who would like to comment on my experience or state that they've had a similar experience is welcomed to do so.

[Synergy]

Are you sure that this was a 'NEG'??  The reason I ask is that many cases of people thinking that they are being attacked by a 'NEG' end up being symptoms of sleep paralysis - hypnagogic/hypnapompic hallucinations, which are also a symptom or precurser of an OBE. 

I want to add that in MANY MANY OBEs that I have had, I have never been bothered by a negative entity, and although I know they do exist on lower levels, they can't harm you and only really drain you of energy.  I have not heard of too many instances of them appearing right at the start of an OBE, and the symptoms you described took place at the start of the OBE. 

I am not saying it is impossible that a NEG is there... just that it is far more likely that you were experiencing the symptoms of sleep paralysis at the start of your OBE.  Especially the feeling of being paralyzed and feeling like you are being pushed down.  It is not uncommon to see shadowy figures or even faces.  I have seen shadowy figures and even felt like there was a presence there, and even called out to God when I was younger, but then I realized that what I was experiencing were normal symptoms of sleep paralysis and not actual entities. 

I just find it odd that so many people immediately say they are being bothered by 'NEGS' at exit, and not considering alternatives. 

Now, I do know that NEGS exist on lower astral levels - but as violent attacking vicious entities that can harm.  More like troubled bothersome entities that thrive on fear and can only drain your energy (and possibly end your OBE control early because of it).

If I have just been lucky as to not have been bothered by these things, please someone let me know... but seriously I have never had any trouble with bothersome entities at all while out... ever.  And I have had MANY MANY OBEs... most of them spontaneous.  I am just offering an alternate possibility...

[Th13rteen]

Are you sure that this was a 'NEG'??  The reason I ask is that many cases of people thinking that they are being attacked by a 'NEG' end up being symptoms of sleep paralysis - hypnagogic/hypnapompic hallucinations, which are also a symptom or precurser of an OBE. 

I want to add that in MANY MANY OBEs that I have had, I have never been bothered by a negative entity, and although I know they do exist on lower levels, they can't harm you and only really drain you of energy.  I have not heard of too many instances of them appearing right at the start of an OBE, and the symptoms you described took place at the start of the OBE. 

I am not saying it is impossible that a NEG is there... just that it is far more likely that you were experiencing the symptoms of sleep paralysis at the start of your OBE.  Especially the feeling of being paralyzed and feeling like you are being pushed down.  It is not uncommon to see shadowy figures or even faces.  I have seen shadowy figures and even felt like there was a presence there, and even called out to God when I was younger, but then I realized that what I was experiencing were normal symptoms of sleep paralysis and not actual entities. 

I just find it odd that so many people immediately say they are being bothered by 'NEGS' at exit, and not considering alternatives. 

Now, I do know that NEGS exist on lower astral levels - but as violent attacking vicious entities that can harm.  More like troubled bothersome entities that thrive on fear and can only drain your energy (and possibly end your OBE control early because of it).

If I have just been lucky as to not have been bothered by these things, please someone let me know... but seriously I have never had any trouble with bothersome entities at all while out... ever.  And I have had MANY MANY OBEs... most of them spontaneous.  I am just offering an alternate possibility...

Maybe you are just on a different level of spiritual evolution as to where you arent getting "bothered" as you put it by negs. Just because something hasnt happened to you yet, if not ever does not mean it doesnt happen to anyone else. I wish more people would do away with this linear thinking that "well if it doesnt happen to me, then it must not be happening to ANYONE else!". ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE! THAT is the doctrine I live by. Therein lies the lesson to be learned, it matters not that it was - or was not a negative entity. The constant in this universe is experience and existence. He "experienced" "something", it is up to HIM to learn from it. It is not up to us to tell him what it is. It is not our place to say that it was, or was not, a negative entity, or a hypnogogic phenomena. What matters is that he was able to glean some knowledge or learning from it. Which, it seems he did. Just read his post and you will see it. Maybe it was a negative entity, and it was put there for him to experience for a purpose. Maybe to test his will power or fear or his resolve. Just because it might have been a negative entity does not lend the idea that it was there for no reason. THERE IS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING! EVERY EXPERIENCE - POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE OR NEUTRAL! No one really knows but the Creator. What he had was simply "an experience", and I feel like it was something put there for him to spiritually grow. Lets leave it at that please. No need to put "labels" on anything. I dont know why Humans feel they have to label every damn thing. I know it helps to understand but not everything in the universe can be comprehended by mere humans.

-13

I reject your reality and substitute it with my own. -Adam Sessler

[Synergy]

I was just suggesting that there might be another explanation for the symptoms he described, that he might not have thought about.  And I did say in my post that I am not saying Negs are not a possibility, just that SP is a more common explanation for feelings of paralysis and feelings of being pushed into the bed.  And, I would think someone would be much less fearful of the exit process in knowing that...  and people who are new at OBEs might be less scared to attempt projection in knowing that as well. 

I want to get across to (especially people who are new at it) that you don't need to be 'on a higher spiritual evolution' as you put it, in order to experience an OBE without evil things like demons / NEGS attacking you.  OBEs are very safe.  Humans have been doing it all throughout history, without ill effect. 

Without putting out there the possibility that many of the fearful things they experience might indeed be sleep paralysis (which is a normal precurser to exiting), it tells people who are new to the world of OBEs that it's not safe, and to be feared, and that will not help them achieve their goal.  They will end up being too fearful to actually exit in the first place, because once they hit sleep paralysis (which they will eventually if they are trying to project), they will think something is trying to attack them. 

He may have been attacked by something, by then again, there is a possibility it was sleep paralysis.  That's all I was suggesting...

[Prophazuh]

Are you sure that this was a 'NEG'??  The reason I ask is that many cases of people thinking that they are being attacked by a 'NEG' end up being symptoms of sleep paralysis - hypnagogic/hypnapompic hallucinations, which are also a symptom or precurser of an OBE. 

Yes, I would say it was a NEG. It was NOT a symptom of Sleep Paralysis.

I just find it odd that so many people immediately say they are being bothered by 'NEGS' at exit, and not considering alternatives. 

Actually, I have considered the alternatives, they can't account for everything! If it was just a sensation of someone or something touching me without anything happening after it, then I would say it was probably associated with Sleep Paralysis but it was much more than that.

If I have just been lucky as to not have been bothered by these things, please someone let me know... but seriously I have never had any trouble with bothersome entities at all while out... ever.  And I have had MANY MANY OBEs... most of them spontaneous.  I am just offering an alternate possibility...

Okay, I'm letting you know (LOL) that you've been lucky to not have had any encounters with a NEG because they do exist (I think it's fair to say that obviously there are such things as negative entities)!

Th13rteen: I couldn't have said it better...I too believe that everything happens for a reason.

[Mydral]

Yes, I would say it was a NEG. It was NOT a symptom of Sleep Paralysis.

Actually, I have considered the alternatives, they can't account for everything! If it was just a sensation of someone or something touching me without anything happening after it, then I would say it was probably associated with Sleep Paralysis but it was much more than that.

Okay, I'm letting you know (LOL) that you've been lucky to not have had any encounters with a NEG because they do exist (I think it's fair to say that obviously there are such things as negative entities)!

Th13rteen: I couldn't have said it better...I too believe that everything happens for a reason.

If NEGs would exist we would all get them. Strange the only people who feel them are the ones who think they exist. We have the same experiences as you, still no NEGs.

I have had some pretty negative experiences involving things looking at me, beeing held down. Only beeing able to move my eyes and getting forced back into a dream... you know how much it sucks when you know your awake, your trying to fight what happens and trying to get up knowing what will wait for you if  you can't and then feeling literarly how your beeing forced back into sleep.

Still I don't believe in NEGs. Its just a very heavy form of sleep paralysis combined with something else I can't place yet.


Look seriously... stop believing in NEGs. The more you do the more those experiences will come. You will just attract it more and be scared.
What you had was a lucid dream. I don't see anything else in your post. I have also fought in similar situations and was even overpowered in one.... picked up some object, think it was a statue. Knew it would enlarge but I thought I would have it under control but I didn't and it became to big, and by looking into its eyes it paralyzed me. (Same thing when you think you can light a tissue and blow it out.. but then it doesn't work and you have to drop it.) Anyways wake up and straight to sleep paralysis... can't move anything, just my eyes and eye lids. hallucinating like while this happens, don't properly know where I am.. just that I am in a lot of trouble.
Definatly not a NEG! Just put myself into a situation I couldn't control.


Thirteen, we are not trying to label. We are trying to help. If he wants to believe in NEGs, fine I won't tell him there are none. They will be there as long as he believes in them and he will keep getting bad experiences.

[Synergy]

Couldn't have said it better Mydral!

The reason I wanted to get this out, is because there are many people here who have not actually had an OBE yet and want to... and what kind of message is it sending to tell them that when they try, they will be hounded by negative entities??  When in the most likely scenerio, they WILL eventually enter into sleep paralysis just from trying to OBE, and they won't know how to recognize the symptoms, and will think it's an evil demon or something trying to get them - and in reality, the hypnapompic/hypnagogic hallucinations can easily be overcome if they just know from the start they are most likely not real.

Now, I am not saying that entities do not exist that can interact with you while out. People have encountered earth bound deceased while in etheric projection, others who are also projecting, and on the astral level, there are entities that are not human and never were.  They are also referred to as elementals - and some of these have been known to be bothersome, but I have never heard of them appearing at exit, so close to the physical.

I HAVE has MANY sleep paralysis episodes all my life... enough to know how it feels and what can happen, including the paralyzed feeling (except for the eyes), being pushed into the bed, the feeling of an evil presence (known throughout history as the 'Old Hag'), seeing flashy lights (usually green luminous dancing lights - again can be felt as an evil presence), shadowy figures, frightening sounds like rushing static, and to top it all off, your brain is still in the state between wakefullness and sleep so you can quite literally dream wile you are awake... kind of the opposite of a lucid dream where you become aware in your dream... in this case you are awake but experiencing dream imagery - and since all of the SP symptoms are frightening if you dont know what they are, your mind automatically superimposes evil, frightening imagery over the physical, and you can quite easily think you are genuinely being attacked by a negtive entity. 

And all of this is a NORMAL part of exiting or beginning stages to a genuine OBE.  We want to try to reassure beginners who really want to OBE, that these things are normal and they are NOT in any danger, and certainly not being attacked.... at least in the VAST majority of cases.  (Like I said, I am not discounting the possibility, but it would be rarity)

[Prophazuh]

If NEGs would exist we would all get them. Strange the only people who feel them are the ones who think they exist. We have the same experiences as you, still no NEGs.

Just because everyone hasn't had an experience with a NEG, doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Yes, you're referring to your experiences with Sleep Paralysis. I'm referring to my experiences with NEG's whilst OOB (perhaps it has something to do with my past interest in Voodoo?)

I have had some pretty negative experiences involving things looking at me, beeing held down. Only beeing able to move my eyes and getting forced back into a dream... you know how much it sucks when you know your awake, your trying to fight what happens and trying to get up knowing what will wait for you if  you can't and then feeling literarly how your beeing forced back into sleep.

Still I don't believe in NEGs. Its just a very heavy form of sleep paralysis combined with something else I can't place yet.


Look seriously... stop believing in NEGs. The more you do the more those experiences will come. You will just attract it more and be scared.
What you had was a lucid dream.

I know what you're talking about because I've experienced this, which is another reason why I know that it was not an experience from Sleep Paralysis, it was an encounter with a NEG.

Are you insinuating that when Robert Bruce talks about NEGS, he's referring to Sleep Paralysis (or a form of it)?

I do agree that if one believes that they're going to see/encounter/experience something when they go OOB, they most likely will (that may not have been exactly what you were saying but...).

It was NOT a Lucid Dream.

Thirteen, we are not trying to label. We are trying to help. If he wants to believe in NEGs, fine I won't tell him there are none. They will be there as long as he believes in them and he will keep getting bad experiences.

The reason I believe in them is because they're real, it's as simple as that.

[Prophazuh]

The reason I wanted to get this out, is because there are many people here who have not actually had an OBE yet and want to... and what kind of message is it sending to tell them that when they try, they will be hounded by negative entities??  When in the most likely scenerio, they WILL eventually enter into sleep paralysis just from trying to OBE, and they won't know how to recognize the symptoms, and will think it's an evil demon or something trying to get them - and in reality, the hypnapompic/hypnagogic hallucinations can easily be overcome if they just know from the start they are most likely not real.

Look, that's the last thing I want to do...prevent those who want to have an OBE from having one. All I'm saying is that unfortunately for me, I get attacked by NEGS more than I want to.

Anyone who hasn't had an OBE yet and is currently practicing, I encourage you to continue...there is NOTHING that can hurt you (and NOTHING to be afraid of) and it's definitely worth the effort. Don't give up!

I HAVE has MANY sleep paralysis episodes all my life... enough to know how it feels and what can happen, including the paralyzed feeling (except for the eyes), being pushed into the bed, the feeling of an evil presence (known throughout history as the 'Old Hag'), seeing flashy lights (usually green luminous dancing lights - again can be felt as an evil presence), shadowy figures, frightening sounds like rushing static, and to top it all off, your brain is still in the state between wakefullness and sleep so you can quite literally dream wile you are awake... kind of the opposite of a lucid dream where you become aware in your dream... in this case you are awake but experiencing dream imagery - and since all of the SP symptoms are frightening if you dont know what they are, your mind automatically superimposes evil, frightening imagery over the physical, and you can quite easily think you are genuinely being attacked by a negtive entity. 

I've had similar experiences myself and my NEG experiences are different. They're not a hallucination but an experience that took place while I was OOB.

[Synergy]

In your first post you said that it had occurred when you were 'attempting' to OBE, and that incinuates you were still awake in your bed... not while you were out.  That's what sparked my suspicions about SP. 

If it was after exit and while definitely out, then that's different.

[Prophazuh]

No, I said that while I was attempting to go OOB, I suddenly felt something holding me down. I instantly knew I was OOB during this time but I was still in the same position as my physical body. I could've easily just focused on my body and returned but I didn't want to (I'm not saying that I enjoyed what was being done to me, its just that I wanted to go somewhere else). I never said that the entirety of the experience took place while I was attempting to go OOB (if that's what you were assuming). When I was in that place that resembled an attic, I was OOB with the Demon/NEG that held me down while I was on my bed.

I can see how one may have thought it was/was related to Sleep Paralysis, if they had assumed I was in my body the whole time.

I thought I explained in detail what I experienced but if you (or anyone else) somehow misunderstood, then I apologize.

[Mydral]

Sorry it still doesn't make sense to me... but I guess its your believe.

Having the feeling of beeing held down while trying to OOB or in the transition stage is very common. I still don't see why you think this was a NEG...

The battle you described is how a lot of lucid dreams are. You envision your opponent in flames and he starts burning.... this is what a lucid dream is, your thought equals action with just about anything.


But ok I won't take you away from your believes. If you really think you fought with a NEG so be it.

[Prophazuh]

I'll try to explain why I think it was a NEG...It wasn't just a feeling of being held down, I saw this NEG (I believe it was only its arms that I saw in this encounter while I was on my bed), interacted with this NEG and it wasn't the first time either. I was in a 3-Dimensional space, it was dark and I saw my non-physical body (the mid-section that is). It sure as hell didn't seem like a positive entity because it did things against my will, it tried to overpower me, it was a NEG (Negative Energy Entity). I struggled to gain control for a while but it would'nt give up.

When I went from my bed to the attic, there was no break in consciousness. I know you might think, "yea, so it was a WILD," but it wasn't. When I'm having a Lucid Dream, I think to myself, "I know I'm dreaming," and when I'm OOB, I simply know/think, "I'm out-of-body." Its the sense of how real everything is, how you're able to think logically, how you're aware that you've had similar experiences in the past, the level of lucidity, etc. There wasn't one moment during the experience in which I thought to myself, "you know what, maybe this is just a dream." I am aware of the fact that you're able to do the same things in a Lucid Dream but that doesn't automatically make the experience a LD. I'm sure you're able to distinguish a LD from an OBE, right? The realism of an OBE cannot be compared to that of an imaginary world one would find themself in during a Lucid Dream.

Just for clarification, let me repeat that this is NOT the first time in which I 'think' I've had an experience/encounter with a NEG. There have been times when I was face to face with this/a NEG, times when I saw it harming/trying to harm this girl, times when it placed a rope around my hands and slapped me/pushed me, times when it responded to my questions (same entity?), etc. I'm not 100% sure that it was the same NEG that usually bothers but it was still a NEG. The Demon/NEG that I see most (when it hasn't changed its appearance?) is like 6 feet (or a little more) tall, resembles the statue of St. Bartholomew where he's holding his skin(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_eMApAkT6FWE/RqZSbOvc86I/AAAAAAAABXg/7wIdJHyXOuo/P6190012.JPG - you can see it better with the image enlarged) but with a different color, like ripped flesh/muscle and looks evil.

Hopefully this helped you (and others?) to understand why I think it was a NEG and why I know they exist.

[Greytraveller]

Prophazuh
You did well to ward off whatever it was that menaced you during that OBE.
You are adament in claiming that it Was a discarnate being you encountered And that you Were out of body during that experience.
For that I can only say ----

BRAVO !!!

Stick to your guns and DON'T let Anyone try to "interpret" your OBE for you.
While I respect Synergy as she has obviously had a lot of experience in the out of body phenomena I also greatly respect the fact that you had a hostile encounter with a discarnate being during an OBE.

Personally I have had dozens of OBEs. Fortunately only 4 or 5 of those OBEs have involved a violent encounter. That is a low percentage and the frequency of such encounters are rare. Yet they do occur from time to time. And certainly not only to me but also to hundreds of other people as well. Reports of violent OBE encounters (and Hellish NDEs) can be found in abundance. For example my latest OBE involved a violent encounter with discarnate dogs. It was posted on the Astral Experiences forum about 2 weeks ago.

Anyway, Prohazuh, I believe you did meet something very hostile during an OBE. You did well during that encounter. So don't feel the need to "defend" yourself from people who don't believe you. If you are certain that it was an OBE then that is enough for me.

Thanx for posting your experience.

Grey

[Prophazuh]

Yea, I don't regret sharing this experience at all. I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone had to say about the experience I had.

Greytraveller: Thanks for believing that what I said was the truth and at least there's someone that can relate!

Th13rteen: It's nice to know there's someone that shares some of the same beliefs as me.

Mydral: Whether you believe it or not, it doesn't change the fact that they exist, you've just been fortunate that's all.

While I respect Synergy as she has obviously had a lot of experience in the out of body phenomena I also greatly respect the fact that you had a hostile encounter with a discarnate being during an OBE.

I respect her as well...BTW, I've read Spirit-Quest: Journey Out-Of-Body and it's a great read!

I appreciate all of the feedback that I recieved thus far (regardless of whether you believed me or not).