What happened? Was I close or what?

JeanBelieves · February 16, 2009, 21:31:21

Oke, first I need to say something about myself. First of, I don't like religion. Bhuddism is the only one I could except. The rest, to much chaos and non-logic. That begin said I still am very interested in religion, and also spiritualism. Alot of years ago I began reading about this stuff, and I trained a little. I was young and I thought it was 'cool' to do all kinds of things, while being aware, in dreams. I don't believe in god, or at least I don't ever noticed a god from within as from without. Evolution ect. I never éver got something spiritual. Still haven't.

But this OBE... It is real. I can't explain it. The last year a friend of mine, who also is a very non-religion kinda guy, told me he almost always knows what he is doing in dreams. So I said it was funny because I read about that. Lucid dreams. Het couldn't really make the dreams in what he wanted. But he is aware of it, and he can remember dreams quite well.

Right. So enough background. So I know you can at least be aware in dreams. (I am still very skeptic about the Astral, but open to it.) Last night I had an amazing experience, and it was not a dream because I almost always know what is a dream when I wake up. This was no dream. I was semi-awake and suddenly I felt I could move out of my body, I thought of OBE at once, and I tryed it. I got a little up and "woesh!" my vision was like in a jerking move and 'slammed' back on my back. I believe this was OBE, since I have had some back problems recently and that would have hurt alot if it was real. I thought in this state: "Wow, was this finally a real attempt at least?!" So I did it again, and the same happend. After that I fell asleep.

It was in my mind the whole day, I could not forget it. I am sure it was not a dream, for I would forget it. I almost always forget my dreams, even if I remember them when waking I forget them in a few days. I know, I should write them down. Believe I will now.

There is another thing that kinda... Well I can't shake it from me. What if I succeed in an OBE? There are other 'beings' out there right. Now I am ofcourse speaking in theory (for myself, some of you believe I know no disrespect) but that creeps me out. I don't want to see strange looking things. How can I protect myself? Or should I just, as soon as I can be able to, call a spirit guide? How to call upon such guides? I read that you could call upon god or jesus. But I don't believe in them. Not in the way modern religion does. God could excist, but anyway this is personal. I do curse once in a while... Perhaps I shouldn't but being a non-believer I just kinda do. What effect will this have? IF I pull of a OBE one day, will evil spirits get me?

I sound a little paranoïd. But I just don't like the idea of messing with evil spirits. (Do believe spirits could excist, just never had expierence with that.) Besides, even if I'm not a christian, in the bible does it not say to stay away from spirits alltogether?

Thanks for the info, I had no idea where to go, hope you people can help or something. Co's it freaked me out a little.

zareste · February 16, 2009, 23:36:17

I wouldn't rush into christianity simply because some atheist dogmas went out the window. They get too many followers that way.

You may meet some spirits you don't like - 'evil' ones - but I can say some of the worst spirits in the universe will appear very friendly and wise on the surface. It's like ordinary reality in that respect.

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 04:54:57

Owh, I don't want to be a christian. I was raised a christian, never been one. I was kinda ranting back there, and well I was more afraid of the fact that IF there is something out there that I didn't crew things up spiritualy. I guess I am an agnostic person, since I don't rule out (a) god. Some threads here read about OBE and when 'waking' in the Astral one would find strange things in the room. Seriously, if that would happen I could never sleep. They were more worries then questions. Once I read about something that can be a ward or something for spirits? I'd like to be alone if I ever succeed (gonna keep trying again). But perhaps I'm to paranoïd to do this in the first place. Hehe.

I didn't try yesterday. I dreamt about some things. I forgot most again. Maybe I'm gonna try later, I did not get much sleep.

Still, even though I read alot. If there is some truth in the bible then the messege is clear: In Deuteronomium 18 it is sayed one should not mettle with the afair of spirits. And if god is real, then this means OBE is not his will. Verse 17 and 18 seem to be the most relevant here considering OBE and spirits.

12 anyone who practices divination,13 an omen reader,14 a soothsayer,15 a sorcerer,16 18:11 one who casts spells,17 one who conjures up spirits,18 a practitioner of the occult,19 or a necromancer.20 18:12 Whoever does these things is abhorrent to the Lord and because of these detestable things21 the Lord your God is about to drive them out22 from before you.

This is a large edit hehe, but you must agree with me with this. How can we know when a spirit is evil? Spirits can be, just like the bible says, look like good beings. They can fool us, trick us, and before you know it they control you. This is how I read about it, not that I think it is fact. But it should not be taken lightly for WHAT IF it is the truth. These are my concerns. I may not be a christian or anything else. But the 'what if' is to important for me.

zareste · February 17, 2009, 10:11:31

Ahaha, I get nervous about weird life forms in my room too. Personally I've only projected a few times, so I'm still anxious. My field is mostly telepathy since I can never seem to exit.

Deuteronomy was written by the beings you'll want to avoid in the astral. They're the organized predators who try to prevent humans from becoming astrally adept, thereby keeping us a sort of slave race. The funny thing is, you're MORE vulnerable to attacks when you stay away from the astral. Someone can attack your mind or pull you out of your body any moment, and there's not much you can do to prevent it if you're inexperienced with spirits. I have some trouble dealing with this fact myself since I'm rather paranoid - we've been conditioned to fear what's out there.

It may help to find some friends in the astral. Then it'll feel safe

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 11:15:14

It was written by who exactly, and how do you know this? And how can you know the source who claims this is true, and not decieving anyone? If I was a spirit who wants to do wrong, I would say what you just told me. I mean, it's their nature to decieve so way no lie about that, letting people think it's all ok and then after a few years your screwed...

I hope I make sence.

jayzfelon · February 17, 2009, 12:13:05

My friend I am not trying to change your beliefs but if you believe more in evil spirits I find it hard to believe that you dont believe in god. I think you just answered most of your questions about your fears. Based on the things you wrote here. You have higher beliefs in evil spirits than in god itself or lets even call it good spirits. Have you ever heard of laws of attraction? You usually attract what you believe in or what you think about. You also has a gift that everyone has and that is to make the right choice. If you feel that you are being deceived into something, then do what you think is right.
One comment you made about astral being bad if there is god because we are not suppose to mess spirits. Well all I can say is you can interpret them in many ways. The same with all religion that interprets what the bible teaches and they have different beliefs. I grew up as a catholic, but i dont beleive in some of the stuff they teach. I beleive that god comes to us in many ways.I dont beleive that you will only be saved let say in what christianity believes that you have to be only a christian.
My advice to you is before you practice any of this stuff. I think you need to find yourself and belive that there is more good in this world than bad. Just think of how you would want to be treated. Again this is just my opinion and if I do offend you I want to apologized in advance. Good luck to you.

Stookie · February 17, 2009, 12:23:55

AP for the believer takes courage, because you "might" be going against God or dabbling in evil powers. What if all our decisions were made out of irrational fear? Maybe that's why the world is as it is.

That makes me want to AP more.

zareste · February 17, 2009, 12:58:33

QuoteAnd how can you know the source who claims this is true, and not decieving anyone?

You deal only in beliefs, so none of these words have meaning. I could have told you all the answers but information is dangerous in the wrong hands, so I was cautious and only gave hints, and that's all you'll get.

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 15:22:46

Quote from: jayzfelon on February 17, 2009, 12:13:05
My friend I am not trying to change your beliefs but if you believe more in evil spirits I find it hard to believe that you dont believe in god. I think you just answered most of your questions about your fears. Based on the things you wrote here. You have higher beliefs in evil spirits than in god itself or lets even call it good spirits. Have you ever heard of laws of attraction? You usually attract what you believe in or what you think about. You also has a gift that everyone has and that is to make the right choice. If you feel that you are being deceived into something, then do what you think is right.
One comment you made about astral being bad if there is god because we are not suppose to mess spirits. Well all I can say is you can interpret them in many ways. The same with all religion that interprets what the bible teaches and they have different beliefs. I grew up as a catholic, but i dont beleive in some of the stuff they teach. I beleive that god comes to us in many ways.I dont beleive that you will only be saved let say in what christianity believes that you have to be only a christian.
My advice to you is before you practice any of this stuff. I think you need to find yourself and belive that there is more good in this world than bad. Just think of how you would want to be treated. Again this is just my opinion and if I do offend you I want to apologized in advance. Good luck to you.

Well, perhaps I was not clear. First of, I don't support any religion. The reason is because I find them to be false. For instance, christianity. Many believe in hel as in an eternal penalty. I believe that god, if he excists, it not loving if he would create such a place. Thus, many religions fail in my opinion. Also because I never 'felt' a presence that there might be more I kinda told myself I don't believe in anything. Bút I don't rule it out. Just like I don't rule out OBE, the Astral world and thus evil spirits. And if I would found out it's real, like say I would have OBE's, then I would not like to get surprised by evil excrement. Thus, I ask about it. It's not that I believe there would be evil spirits. But this all started when I got that weird thing I discribed two nights ago. It felt real, I remember it clear even now. It felt I got up, realised I got up but not in the flesh and in the exitement of thinking: "WTF, am I having a OBE?!" I smacked back. Then I tryed again, with the same result. After that I fell asleep.

And I know we all are just sharing expierences, believes and all that, so believe me I don't get offended. I respect everybody's input in this.

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 15:25:29

Quote from: Stookie on February 17, 2009, 12:23:55
AP for the believer takes courage, because you "might" be going against God or dabbling in evil powers. What if all our decisions were made out of irrational fear? Maybe that's why the world is as it is.

That makes me want to AP more.

It's not that I believe, but it's more the 'what if god was really telling us not to do this kinda thing because it would be dangerous' factor. Sounds silly, but you know. Demons, spirits. It's not very... comforting. Simply put, I don't know what to believe. But I didn't believed much anyway, so perhaps I just pray or something and curse less and see what happens when I try OBE. Hehe.

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 15:26:47

Quote from: zareste on February 17, 2009, 12:58:33
You deal only in beliefs, so none of these words have meaning. I could have told you all the answers but information is dangerous in the wrong hands, so I was cautious and only gave hints, and that's all you'll get.

Ah, I understand. I forgot that you can't share everything what you learn. It's all individuality, no.
I didn't meant to offend you. I thank you for the hints/information.

JeanBelieves · February 17, 2009, 17:46:37

Anyway, perhaps I'll just see what happens. So I'll continue trying. But I don't know if I am on the wrong track. I just do the breathing, just like meditation. Any advice and that part? Thank you in advance, as always.

owl · February 17, 2009, 20:20:54

JeanBelieves,

Quote from: JeanBelieves on February 17, 2009, 15:25:29
It's not that I believe, but it's more the 'what if god was really telling us not to do this kinda thing because it would be dangerous' factor. Sounds silly, but you know. Demons, spirits. It's not very... comforting. Simply put, I don't know what to believe. But I didn't believed much anyway, so perhaps I just pray or something and curse less and see what happens when I try OBE. Hehe.

The way I look at it, is if there is a god and we were created by this god with the ability to travel in the spirit then why should we not. I believe the search for finding our own truths about where we came from why we are here and where we go when we die is perfectly natural.

Good luck in your search

Envix · February 17, 2009, 23:42:55

You create your own reality. What you believe is what you will experience (i.e. evil). The law of attraction dictates this. The truth of the matter is that there is no "natural evil"; it is self-manifested. I hope this helps.

Steele · February 19, 2009, 18:54:20

i believe you and i have similiar beliefs i myself have never believed in christianity. i am however not an atheist i basically have drifted through religeous belifes ranging from satanism, paganism, taoism and more each reflecting my varying state of mind. i believe however that i have a very reckless soul. i have no regrets none at all. i seem to forget danger in order to further experience, as for your thoughts on evil spirits and other beings i would like to tell you that there is no reason to be frightened. we all have guardians that will protect us. without evil there can be no good. i disagree with many things in the bible as i have tested them and found them to not apply to me. not saying im above the law or anything but i dont view the bible as credible. however people chose to believe what they believe i have no problems with this.

now basically saying that you dont want to encounter evil spirits is the manifestation of anxiety. i believe in letting go of fear if you let your fear control you you cannot truly learn. if you wish to know how someone will react to you if you say stand in front of them and act abstractly then you must forget your fear of looking foolish. leaving your fear for the benefit of knowledge i believe is a good skill. also you should consider your belief in the afterlife. if you believe in life after death than you should be able to relinquish your fear as easily as i have. with fear weighing you down however you may find yourself limited. anyway as always i have been rambling, take from it what you will and best wishes.
Steele

JeanBelieves · February 20, 2009, 18:14:43

Quote from: Steele on February 19, 2009, 18:54:20
now basically saying that you dont want to encounter evil spirits is the manifestation of anxiety.

I can't believe how spot on you are just now. I have to admit, it's something I want to get rid of. Around new people I am very reservered and I usually don't say a word when around new people. Perhaps I should just continue indeed for the sake of getting rid of this angst.

Thanks.

Steele · February 20, 2009, 18:54:48

you are very welcome i wish you all the best!

News:

What happened? Was I close or what?

Stookie