Astral Physics

[Psan]

Good reading ....

http://montalk.net/notes/astral-physics

Can the etheric and astral planes can be understood from the viewpoint of physics? What is the mathematical relationship between these and the physical realm? To take a shot at these questions, we must examine what physics says of the physical and see if that can be mathematically extended to produce predictions matching anecdotal observations of the etheric and astral.

[lucidreality]

Wow, that really is some amazing stuff. What a site to come across. Thanks for the link.

[Leilah]

My friend recently gave me the link to it.

Definitely a good site!

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Thanks for the link! You helped answer my question about "phosphene" images.

This is exactly what I see in my visual field as the hypnagogic imagery begins.
I found something called Creative Skies and adjusted it to match what I'm seeing.
Phosphene/Hypnagogic.MPG 6MB

From http://montalk.net/notes/active-dreaming

One such method involves watching the phosphene images behind closed eyelids. These are the glowing blobs of static noise patterns that always fill our vision but are more easily noticed in the dark. Contrary to passive dreaming, this keeps one's visual faculties active and focused on real sense impressions instead of turning within and getting lose in consciously projected daydreams or visualizations. You will notice that in dreams your "eyes" are focused on an environment existing "outside" you, seemingly as real as anything you might see with your physical eyes while awake. Staring out into the field of phosphenes involves an identically externalized point of focus, so one component of the dream experience is already established. It therefore does not take long for hypnagogic images to start up, although these can startle one back into full consciousness. With repeated exposure they become less startling.

The next issue is becoming so quickly absorbed in the phosphenes and hypnagogic images that one loses self-awareness before the subconscious is ready to begin projecting. To counter this a second technique may be employed: quickly opening and shutting your eyes every two or three breaths. This allows enough real sense data to come in, and is so intentionally controlled, that the mind has better chances of staying alert. And yet since this involves mere movement of the eyelids, the rest of the body is not prevented from doing its thing to fall asleep. One can keep this up until the hypnagogic state kicks in, then continue watching those and the phosphenes.

[dingo]

http://montalk.net/notes/astral-physics

Mind. Blown.

I did special relativity and quantum physics at uni. The linked article actually makes sense in light of what I was taught at uni. I'm really surprised it wasn't all bovine excrement to be honest. Thank you!

Any idea who the author is or how I could contact him/her? (inb4 etheric visitation)

[no_leaf_clover]

I'm very interested and a fan of this man's work, Dr. William Tiller:

http://www.tillerfoundation.com/model.php

I bought a book of his and read and it made a lot of sense to me, too.  Never formally studied quantum physics or anything but I'm an engineering major and am familiar with the general concepts and I was very impressed, and it resonated very deeply with my world view.

[desmodromic]

Very cool link... lots of cool stuff to learn =D

However, I'm having a hard time understanding what he's trying to get across in this article; http://montalk.net/notes/law-of-attraction-vs-law-of-awareness

In one paragraph he says; "The more certain you are that a particular future will happen, the more that future is frozen and kept from manifesting through quantum / synchronistic means."

Isn't that contradicting the "Law of attraction" all together? Or am I not understanding something? .....

[CFTraveler]

Very cool link... lots of cool stuff to learn =D

However, I'm having a hard time understanding what he's trying to get across in this article; http://montalk.net/notes/law-of-attraction-vs-law-of-awareness

In one paragraph he says; "The more certain you are that a particular future will happen, the more that future is frozen and kept from manifesting through quantum / synchronistic means."

Isn't that contradicting the "Law of attraction" all together? Or am I not understanding something? .....

It's not contradicting the Law of Attraction at all.  The Law of Attraction specifies that wanting something is not enough to manifest it, there has to be some emotion attached to the thought associated with it.  I believe the person who wrote the  Astral Physics article explained it fairly well-

To me it all boils down to this:
1) Awareness, anticipation, and conscious attention select or block possibilities.
2) Emotional resonance, root assumptions, and subconscious beliefs attract them.

Emotional resonance here being the key ingredient in the manifestation process, and root assumptions the possible obstacle.
Good read.
http://montalk.net/notes/law-of-attraction-vs-law-of-awareness

[desmodromic]

It's not contradicting the Law of Attraction at all.  The Law of Attraction specifies that wanting something is not enough to manifest it, there has to be some emotion attached to the thought associated with it.  I believe the person who wrote the  Astral Physics article explained it fairly well- Emotional resonance here being the key ingredient in the manifestation process, and root assumptions the possible obstacle.
Good read.
http://montalk.net/notes/law-of-attraction-vs-law-of-awareness

Oh ok! I think I'm starting to understand it now.   

[PissedOff24]

If something is truly spiritual, then there is no way it can be measured by math or detected by science. Science will never "detect" heaven. Give it up. We are on the physical plane, so we can only do physical things. If we wish to see the other planes, the only way we can do it is via the spiritual route. So, on the physical plane, things are physical. One the spiritual plane, which is supposedly the more real and dominant one, then everything is possible.

[dingo]

If something is truly spiritual, then there is no way it can be measured by math or detected by science. Science will never "detect" heaven. Give it up. We are on the physical plane, so we can only do physical things. If we wish to see the other planes, the only way we can do it is via the spiritual route. So, on the physical plane, things are physical. One the spiritual plane, which is supposedly the more real and dominant one, then everything is possible.

What makes you think there's only one way to discover the spiritual world? Seem a kind of dogmatic anti-scientific point of view.

[PissedOff24]

It's not a "dogmatic anti-scientific point of view", I have explained this before. If the other planes are immaterial and not made of matter, then it is impossible for science to detect them. If they are spiritual, then we must see them spiritually. That is what I mean. Science is amazing and fascinates me, but I believe it will not "detect" other planes for the reason mentioned above. Of course, as we have already seen on this plane, Science has made many important discoveries with our bodies, space, the Universe, our solar system, etc etc etc.

[zareste]

Science is not some instrument that beeps when it detects something. It's a process of figuring out the objective facts using circumstantial information.

[CFTraveler]

It's not a "dogmatic anti-scientific point of view", I have explained this before. If the other planes are immaterial and not made of matter, then it is impossible for science to detect them.

I respectfully disagree.
First off, how do you define 'spiritual'?  The definition of 'nonmaterial' can be taken many ways.  Energy is 'nonmaterial' but it is measurable.  Why?  Because it can be perceived.
When we project, we experience the 'planes' or whatever you want to call them.  This means they are perceptible.  Perception implies some sort of objective existence- it's just that the subjective element is more prevalent.  But if you can perceive some sort of spatiality, if time passes (like in some planes), then there is some sort of objective element.  And if it can be experienced, it can be perceived.  If it can be perceived, it can be measured.  Even if the only 'measuring tool' we have now is the human (or other) mind- it's still being reported on and documented.

If they are spiritual, then we must see them spiritually. That is what I mean. Science is amazing and fascinates me, but I believe it will not "detect" other planes  for the reason mentioned above. Of course, as we have already seen on this plane, Science has made many important discoveries with our bodies, space, the Universe, our solar system, etc etc etc.

A lot of things that used to be thought of as 'magical' has been described or observed scientifically.  Perhaps the OBE state can only be marginally demonstrated, and I agree that it can't be scientifically proven, but that doesn't mean it can't be measured and documented.
..and I have to say that the article mentioned does an excellent job in reconciling the observed OBE state with scientific theories.  And that is a good thing, IMO.

[PissedOff24]

I respectfully disagree.
First off, how do you define 'spiritual'?  The definition of 'nonmaterial' can be taken many ways.  Energy is 'nonmaterial' but it is measurable.  Why?  Because it can be perceived.
When we project, we experience the 'planes' or whatever you want to call them.  This means they are perceptible.  Perception implies some sort of objective existence- it's just that the subjective element is more prevalent.  But if you can perceive some sort of spatiality, if time passes (like in some planes), then there is some sort of objective element.  And if it can be experienced, it can be perceived.  If it can be perceived, it can be measured.  Even if the only 'measuring tool' we have now is the human (or other) mind- it's still being reported on and documented. A lot of things that used to be thought of as 'magical' has been described or observed scientifically.  Perhaps the OBE state can only be marginally demonstrated, and I agree that it can't be scientifically proven, but that doesn't mean it can't be measured and documented.
..and I have to say that the article mentioned does an excellent job in reconciling the observed OBE state with scientific theories.  And that is a good thing, IMO.

I already know about OBE's being measured and documented. That is how I found out that astral projection even exist, through the resources that were available on the subject. And I already knew what you said about the perception part of things. Measuring and documenting and researching OBE's through scientific research and observation I have NOTHING against, because it helps people get more informed who might want to consider trying it themselves or learning more about it. But what bothers me is when Science claims (quote) "In about 10 years we will have the technology capable of not only detecting other planes of existence, but entering them through science as well". Yeah. They said that 10 years ago as well. And now it all comes back to what I said before. If something is immaterial and does not consist of matter, there is NO way by the current understanding of things today that we can acknowledge it's there! Yet, so many people who have taken the spiritual path seem to acknowledge that it's there. So that's what I have say.

[CFTraveler]

I agree with you about that.
They also said 30 or 50 years ago that we'd all have flying cars, 'Jetson' style.  I'm still waiting for mine.   

[PissedOff24]

I agree with you about that.
They also said 30 or 50 years ago that we'd all have flying cars, 'Jetson' style.  I'm still waiting for mine.   

Lol it's great that you mentioned that, so you don't take up my spot to get a flying intergalactic space pod by 2010  .

[dingo]

But what bothers me is when Science claims (quote) "In about 10 years we will have the technology capable of not only detecting other planes of existence, but entering them through science as well". Yeah. They said that 10 years ago as well.

I don't know of any reputable sources that would make that claim.

[Astral Projection]

Wow I like idea that everything before observing is just a wavefunction of possibilities. Quantum world is very strange indeed it has rules that cannot be explained with classical physics. This guy put all this together very nicely
I recommend watching "Elegant Universe" and "Down the Rabbit Hole" movies..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc