Perhaps it is possible to damage your physical body (Excerpt from R. Monroe)

[Stillwater]

An Excerpt from Robert Monroe's Ultimate Journey:

-------------------------------

No, there was no. . .
big bang . . . it came from the Emitter . . . the creation of
the hologram . . . and there it is, the return flow off to one
side . . . a cycle . . . a closed loop . . . a circle! Now I
know . . . now I know!
. . . I had better get back, back to the I-There of me
. . . let them know . . . easy and quick . . . quick-switch
and skip . . .

Ram, is that you?

It is. Your scout is back.

Control your radiation! You're burning us out!

Oh, sorry. Is that better?

When you broke the uplink, we did not know if you would
come back. But you have! Now we can act. But first you had
better . . .

I have it! I have what you need!

Stop and listen, will you?

What is it?

You must move back into your physical body. Now.

Why? Is something wrong?

We have been trying to send a thought to you. When your
uplink broke, it also cut you off from your physical body. If
you do not move back quickly, you may lose it. It is not yet
the right time.

. . . If they were concerned, so was I! They gave me a
surge of energy as I began a rapid shift back to the physical
phase. The body was shocked, and I was shocked—it was so
cold, the blood pressure very low, the pulse rate slow, the
heart near fibrillation. As I started the breathing again, deeply,
the body began slowly to warm up, to move back to normal,
but the muscles were stiff . . . it would take several days to
get them back into reasonable operation . . .

It did indeed take several days. The physical body eventually
returned to reasonable operation. The essence of me, however,
did not. There was not simply a Different Overview, but
a remembering of unlimited freedom, an ever so slight glimpse
of an Ultimate Option.

-----------------

I had never noticed this.... so perhaps it is indeed possible for the physical body to suffer ill consequences. I think it is worth noting that the incident ocurred under the most extreme of conditions, with Monroe claiming to have ascended, with great difficulty, to another plane of existence far above this one, and this is the only such indcident I know of where he speaks of ill physical reactions.

It is also important to point out that elsewhere in his second book, he also states that over 26,000 trials had been performed as of that time at the Monroe institute, with no sign of physical harm, so I still would not call OBE dangerous by any stretch of the imagination- I just think it might be noteworthy that there is an exception to the claim that others make with absolute confidence that OBE may never under any circumstances cause physical harm. But even so, I still don't think there is any justification for approaching this particular skill with fear or apprehension.

Stillwater

[zareste]

Interesting how they're more concerned with 'his time' than his well-being. I hear about that a lot. Whoever controls these upper frequencies of the universe is really bent on keeping it to themselves

[Stillwater]

I think it is a bit clearer in context, but I could only give so much before the post was too long to read.

The "they" in question is the group of personalities which Monroe has been told made up the entire history of his mind's thousand's of experiences  on earth. He returned to them after visiting a plane of existence far above theirs, to which they collectively believed Monroe would travel with them to once his existences on earth were finished.

By not being "his time", I think Monroe was indicating that it was not his time to ascend with them, or to terminate his current life.

Interesting stuff, from one with so much control over his experiences. I thought Monroe's books would be very technical, but they are actually quite  rich.

[zareste]

Ah, could be. I've just read through countless similar experiences and seen a very common negative intent from seemingly-divine entities. The urge to prey on the innocent seems to transcend all levels of space.

Here, one has to think - if these life forms are detached from him in every way, how are they himself? They are different minds. It's probably the same way a lot of entities disguise themselves as religious figures while talking to people. They know humans respect the identity of the speaker more than their words.

[Stillwater]

The way Monroe describes the situation, he really isn't detached at all- he actually seems to participate in a pretty close communion with them. There is a separation, but the reason Monroe posits for this is that it is part of the earth experience to live a life isolated from other consciousness. From what he wrote, he indicated that he beleived he would more or less merge with this group of personalites after he died.

I can agree with what you said, though. I would expect the single most salient quality that "upper level" entities would express would be overpowering love and compassion, so much so that it would define their existence. Although Monroe does indicate that the entities he interacted with showed a great deal of love for him, it does not seem to meet the magnitude I would expect; perhaps, however, that is because I am not the one who had these particular experiences- maybe it is different in person than he portrays. Maybe it is also of note that although high level entities are brimming with love, they always seem to be terribly busy with some task or other, so maybe he caught their "business side"?

It is also worth noting that the entities indicated to Monroe that their existence was only on the level just above human experience, and that their knowledge was actually quite limited, so I guess they don't really meet the label of "supreme being".

I would also agree that is quite possible for an intelligence to lull another into a false sense of awe through displays of grandeur, so much so that I would have difficulty accepting anything that was said unconditionally, but I guess that comes with the territory.

[zareste]

There's quite a contrast between love and a psychically-induced feeling of pleasantness. They could also make you feel dread if it would suit their cause (and sometimes they do, if you read other accounts) but a feeling of love is a better lure. Y'know, you wouldn't put rotten cheese in a mouse trap.

Alternatively (and I'm going out on a limb here) they could be pointing to some kind of mass ascension, saying Earth spirits can't safely shift just yet (instead of referring to him as an individual). There was the noted conflict between their frequencies, and generally a spirit can't function outside its ambient (planetary) frequency.

[Lighten]

Interesting. nice post.

I see a parallel between this experience and monks. During some form of deep meditation, Monk's heart rate and body temperature also drop dramatically. Monroe could have just been going 'deeper' in his mind and his subconscious was warning him of the danger.

[Stillwater]

I think that is an interesting parallel indeed. I guess I always assumed that the changes in heart-rate associated with very deep meditation simply reflected the change in conscious-state (beta vs delta, etc)- perhaps there actually is this profound physical effect to be caused by being out of tune with the conscious bodily awareness.

From the context of this excerpt, I would say that they are in part a peice of his sub-conscious, but I think the distinction that Monroe would have drawn is that they have an awareness that extends beyond the bounds of his own. A sort of me-and-not-me scenario.

[Stookie]

It also reminds me of reported "Kundalini" risings, where it puts stress on the entire body and organs. Perhaps there is a "too far" for the uninitiated. Or maybe it is an initiation in itself.

I doubt the beginner has anything to worry about.

I'll admit that I had an experience once where afterward my heart was beating very hard and very fast, (I didn't realize it during and would have aborted, and not to be confused with heart-chakra pulsing), and it left pain in my chest for several days after. It was a rare, one-time thing that I've never mentioned to anyone before.

[dingo]

You have to look at Monroe's experience in its context: he'd left the nonphysical universe and was exploring the next level outward. You can't remain human while doing this - he was disconnected from the universe and therefore his body for a long time and it started to die. There's no danger of this during astral projection because you'll never know how to go that far unless you're ready.

[Stillwater]

You have to look at Monroe's experience in its context: he'd left the nonphysical universe and was exploring the next level outward. You can't remain human while doing this - he was disconnected from the universe and therefore his body for a long time and it started to die. There's no danger of this during astral projection because you'll never know how to go that far unless you're ready.

Exactly. The point I tried to stress is that the context must be understood for the excerpt to be fully comprehended; and I agree, most people will never get the chance to be that far removed from their physical bodies, but I have heard of people telling stories that are un-par with Monroe's experience, so it maye be plausible that it happens, if infrequently. Even so, I think you guys are right, normal practitioners have pretty much nothing to fear- this sort of experience probably can never happen without full intent.