Is believe Biological , pyscologhical. Is it socially influenced?

[Fourthdimension]

I was meant to write this earlier but i have dbeen out for a drink so i am a bit drunk. so if this like all of my messages incoherent and illegible you have my apologise haha

Ok well my cousin is a psychologist and me and her was talking about illnesses and she says that psychology belives , beilve can be changed by medication.

Here is briefly the messages conversed between me and her.......

Me:" i agree that medication can change and help illness and diseases that concern the immune system and endocrine system aswell as the nervous system and major organs but i dont believe that medication can help psychological illness or change belive. thats like saying a tablet can convert a christian into a muslim?

Nicola:"Its fine to have beliefs but if it puts your self or others in danger psychotherapy  helps to relax the mind so to speak i mean it is one thing to be catholic but another to belive your jesus and walk around a busy town center  with a crusifixon your back if you know what i mean?"

I forgot what i said next i think it was .,....... Oh so your saying by prescribing tablets to a patient you can convert a christian to a muslim or make a cat think its a dog?

she replied no because it is dependant upon the serotin levels and a number of biological factors aswell as others?

ok so i said... " so are you saying that our belives are biological and caused becuase of gentics if so does that not mean our belives are predeterministic so in lament terms that would mean our believes can be predicted from birth?"

she said no our beliefs ius based on who we are its biological and psycholocigal and social and chemical  and stress  and vulnerabillity and valdility

so i said well if what you are saying is true then the following statemnt is valid..... Belief is in our genes and would be predeterministic but because of social influences and propaganda and because our cognitive functions are changed becauase of the social influences and our chemicals changed because of our diet and lifestyle aswell as how vunrable in other words gulable changes how we believe.

she just told me she was at work and she ll text me later which in other words meant f off end of conversation haha

but if she is right that not only means that it is biological and predeterministic  but that societys and our background changes how we belief aswell as our diet and lifestyle as they have a big part to play in our chemicals.

what do you belives is our belives because of how aware we are.... because of god... or because our genes?

do we have free will and choice to belive or is this world lost in a meterialist world making free will nothing more than determinism?

am too drunk to think so i ll write more tomorrow if needed am sorry if this does not make any sense.

takew care enjoy and long forward to peoples oppinions

i think oppinions may  be a bit biased because after all this is a site filled with people who have strong beliefs as do i but nevertheless freedom of speech is welcomed

take care
x

[CFTraveler]

Ok...

so i said well if what you are saying is true then the following statemnt is valid..... Belief is in our genes and would be predeterministic but because of social influences and propaganda and because our cognitive functions are changed becauase of the social influences and our chemicals changed because of our diet and lifestyle aswell as how vunrable in other words gulable changes how we believe.

Genetics are not programs that determine how you behave or what you believe- genes are like little switches that when expressed, may give a range of effect.  However no geneticst (last thing I've read/heard, anyway) can determine why when Gene 'a' (an example) can produce an abnormality of 'form' (say, like something 'not the right shape' and in others, the same gene will not make any difference, or cause some other type of effect.
So genes only predispose us to certain characteristics, but whether we develop them or not is dependent on things that may or may not be predetermined in any way.

but if she is right that not only means that it is biological and predeterministic  but that societys and our background changes how we belief aswell as our diet and lifestyle as they have a big part to play in our chemicals.

Of course culture will determine a great part of our beliefs, because the culture will already give us whatever God they believe in.  That's why most christians were already born into a christian society, muslims in a muslim society, and every other religion will be mostly culturally influenced.  The way we see God also changes according to what we learn and come to believe in terms of science and culture.
The thing is, that your view of God changing (IMO, this is healthy) doesn't mean that God changes, it just means that the problem of 'understanding the concept of God' changes. 

what do you belives is our belives because of how aware we are.... because of god... or because our genes?

You need to sober up to read this question again, and to read my answer, because I don't think you can separate God from anything, much less than our genes.
If I am God's expression, God chose to experience the world as a person with my genetic characteristics, in my cultural environment.  So whatever chemicals drive my emotions are not an accident, it was simply the way God chose to experience the world as me, and as you, and as everyone else.

do we have free will and choice to belive or is this world lost in a meterialist world making free will nothing more than determinism?

The good news is that you get to choose.  What kind of world do you prefer to live in, one which gives you free will (or the right to choose a behavior) or one which decides what belief you want to embrace and which one you prefer to reject- and the right to change your mind.
I don't think 'free will' is about controlling every circumstance you encounter- I think free will is about how you want to react to whatever comes up.  And frankly, I think that's what it's all about.
Is there determinism?  Sure, as much as there isn't.

[Fourthdimension]

Genetics are not programs that determine how you behave or what you believe- genes are like little switches that when expressed, may give a range of effect.  However no geneticst (last thing I've read/heard, anyway) can determine why when Gene 'a' (an example) can produce an abnormality of 'form' (say, like something 'not the right shape' and in others, the same gene will not make any difference, or cause some other type of effect.
So genes only predispose us to certain characteristics, but whether we develop them or not is dependent on things that may or may not be predetermined in any way.

Sorry if this sounds politically incorrect but if you have a gene in your gentics before your born that would make you black. It does not mean i am going to be black it means i could be black?

How come then almost every child who has a black mother and farther ends up been black because of the gene

just an example sorry if anybody takes any words as politically incorrect there used only as an example.

Of course culture will determine a great part of our beliefs, because the culture will already give us whatever God they believe in.  That's why most christians were already born into a christian society, muslims in a muslim society, and every other religion will be mostly culturally influenced.  The way we see God also changes according to what we learn and come to believe in terms of science and culture.
The thing is, that your view of God changing (IMO, this is healthy) doesn't mean that God changes, it just means that the problem of 'understanding the concept of God' changes.

My mother and farther were christian my gran parents were nuns and other religous figures.
I had no spiritualism influences in my familly or life except from odd experiences i had as a child.
If i questioned christianity i would get wrong and scorned at yet i have grown up to be spiritualist

so how come i aint catholic or christian when my social background says i should be lol?
does thyis mean social influences dont play a major role because if they did i would be the same reluigoin as the people around me lol?

I understand what you mean y the changing concept.....

A man reads the bible or is taught to believe in god as a manifestation of a man in the clouds who judges us for our sins..................that is his first personal experience of the concept of understanding god....

a man then starts to realise that god does not judge us but we judge ourselfs and that god may not be a manifestation but an energy that lies in all atoms of all shapes and forms and animations..... his second experience of the understanding of god and the progress of his understanding of god. God has not changed just The mans realisations

Now man realises that there is no wrong only right and so he cant be judged at all but just realise why he done it he realises that god is not an energy lying in everything but god is everything and nothing is outside of gods and that god has never been apart from him and journeyed with him all the way

the next step of understanding

You need to sober up to read this question again, and to read my answer, because I don't think you can separate God from anything, much less than our genes.
If I am God's expression, God chose to experience the world as a person with my genetic characteristics, in my cultural environment.  So whatever chemicals drive my emotions are not an accident, it was simply the way God chose to experience the world as me, and as you, and as everyone else.

Ha ha i understood it when i was drunk but was to drunk to write a constructive answer lol

This goes back to our conversation on the topic of experience and why we experience when we talked about hitler.

Link to discussion about why we are here and how we come to experience the duality of evilSo basically
I want to experience....... (cft i ll miss out the middle bit for sake of relevance haha) I then exist in a certain time and location......... God as me chooses to be born in a specific body mabye with a specific disabillity or talent, back ground or influences, toa certain mother or farther that effect my genes in certain ways. so that when i am born god may want me to be born with 1 arms or some learning disabillity or some talent so that it influences the way i experience

The good news is that you get to choose.  What kind of world do you prefer to live in, one which gives you free will (or the right to choose a behavior) or one which decides what belief you want to embrace and which one you prefer to reject- and the right to change your mind.
I don't think 'free will' is about controlling every circumstance you encounter- I think free will is about how you want to react to whatever comes up.  And frankly, I think that's what it's all about.
Is there determinism?  Sure, as much as there isn't.

I am not sure about determinism i think that if one day we come across a man in the street and decide to help him its because there are certain conditions met to determin how we should act but if the scenario comes up again there might be tiny diffrences in the conditions and controls so that we act diffrent but think that it was free will how we acted because the changes where to tiny for us to pin point.

am not saying thats how it but thats how it could be. we could belive in free will when its an illusion

If its unclear what am trying to say  let me know and i ll give you more information and explain more.

but i do belive its true what you say about free will its not about controlling our life its about controlling  factors in our life

take care
xxx

[CFTraveler]

Sorry if this sounds politically incorrect but if you have a gene in your gentics before your born that would make you black. It does not mean i am going to be black it means i could be black?

How come then almost every child who has a black mother and farther ends up been black because of the gene

I didn't say that physical attributes do not cause physical characteristics, I said that genes are not the only characteristics that determine what the gene is going to express.
Back to the black or white example- Did you know that according to the latest evidence on mitochondrial DNA studies, it is believed (I don't want to say 'it's been determined', because science should never be taken as 'unchanging'- that everyone of every race started out as black, and the rest of the races were mutations that happened as we evolved to meet the needs of the environment?  So at one point, the whole of humanity was black, and as some people migrated to places with less sunlight, things like the lack of Vitamin D became problematic, and people in such places began losing their pigmentation.  This has been studied, and that's why some races have more propensities to certain diseases.
But as I said before, I didn't mean to say that genes don't play a large part in determining many things about our physical bodies- the thing is that, like I said before, certain genes may cause different things in different people- and that shows that there's more than the gene turning on to make something happen, and no one knows what that may be (at last the time I read about this).

My mother and farther were christian my gran parents were nuns and other religous figures.
I had no spiritualism influences in my familly or life except from odd experiences i had as a child.
If i questioned christianity i would get wrong and scorned at yet i have grown up to be spiritualist

But you had the experiences, and spiritualism is christian-based.  I know because I grew up in a home that combined catholicism and santeria (a form of spiritualism), and they shaped how I see God.  No, I don't go to a spiritualist church, or to a catholic church, but my choice of religious practice was heavily influenced by what I learned in those churches, what I accepted from them and what I rejected from them.
My present religious persuasion is not what I started out with, but I can't deny the influence it had in my present religion.  And the fact that I actually go to a church.

so how come i aint catholic or christian when my social background says i should be lol?

Spiritualism is a type of christianity, I hate to tell you, unless you mean 'spirituality', which is a philosophy, not a religion, which doesn't dismiss any religion in specific.  Ps.  And, your social background and your personal experiences combined to decide what you decided to accept and reject from your religion of origin.

[no_leaf_clover]

It's funny you ask this because I just bought a book called "The Biology of Belief" and I've already seen the author give a presentation to a group posted on YouTube, and this is all cutting-edge science of genes.


It's been discovered and research is ongoing into the fact that your BELIEFS change your genes.

It is not the other way around, that your genes determine your thoughts and feelings.  Your thoughts and feelings inform all the cells of your body, and they react to that, even turning genes present in your total DNA on and off as they are informed.


For example, everyone has "cancer genes." Which simply means everyone has genes that have been associated with cancer in one study or another.  But these genes are NOT activated in everyone -- obviously.  It is only certain circumstances and environmental conditions of the cells (including the hormones and other things you dump onto your cells through your conscious feelings and intentions) that trigger what genes are turned on or off and when.  Your cells can go any way you like with it, all by simply fine-tuning your own thoughts and feelings during the day.  Your metabolism, and cells changing chemistry is ALWAYS happening.  Your body might as well be on fire,  its chemical reactions are constant.


Anyway, a pill may be able to change your genes just like any other chemical or electrical agent introduced to your cells, but the only thing in ultimate control of your thoughts is YOU.  And YOU also have ultimate control over your thoughts, feelings, and genetic changes.

[AmbientSound]

Belief is another word for faith. We cannot know everything. When we look at an opaque object, such as a sphere, we are only seeing half of it. The other half is hidden behind the half that we can see. But we have faith that the other half is there. It appears as though we can rotate the sphere to see the other half. The first half then goes out of sight. But we believe it is still there. Why do we believe that? It's probably instinctual, but our beliefs get stronger if they remain consistent with our experiences. Regardless of whether what we can't see or detect does not change at all, or does, we must have faith in the possibility that it is still there, as it was the last time we saw it. Belief, in other words, could be described as the knowledge of what cannot be ruled out as a possibility. Knowledge is just a word to describe more established beliefs- beliefs we no longer question. Faith is very quantum-physics in its nature. What we believe has, perhaps, the greatest influence of our choices out of any internal or external force which acts upon our individual beings. Indeed, it may be the only force which has any sway over our choices.

We believe in what we observe, but most people forget about all the factors that play a part in the equation of our process of choosing. For example, if I am dreaming, and have the knowledge that I am dreaming, and happen to see a pink elephant standing in the room, then that would cause me to believe that a pink elephant is not really standing in the room and that it is an effect of my dream. If I don't know I'm dreaming, then I might (a) be inclined to believe that there is indeed a pink elephant standing in the room, (b) become suspicious that I had somehow consumed a hallucinogen unknowingly, or (c) believe that there must be something wrong with me and that the pink elephant absolutely cannot be real because pink elephants don't exist. In other words, yes, maybe, and no. Those are the three basic levels of belief.

All factors of our experience determine what is possible for us to believe and what is not. I probably should go on to say here that we have had experiences where we did not believe something and it happened anyway, which would increase our ability to believe that just because we don't believe in something strongly does not mean that we do not believe that there is an extremely small margin of possibility that it exists. That is the loophole.

[Fourthdimension]

sorry for the late reply but i enjoyed reading the last posts everyone posted.

ambient ssound i agree totally about what you said about belief but i think you missed something out
you said belief is the same as faith but in my oppinion belief is like how u described the dream scenario you aint sure wether its true or not or wether your just 100percent crazy but yet you embrace the belive and investigate it more and then......

you either find that it was a load of rubbish wich dismisses your belief in this and there for makes it not true or you not crazy

or you find your own personal proof that makes you belief it without a doubt somuch so that you will not deny it do no-one nor doubt it that becomes faith whichmeans yeah your not crazy and yes it was true

hahah which just gave me a stupid thought the idea that your either crazy or the belive is right or wrong. so you find it right and you become not crazy cause you know its right and its wrong you become not crazy because ur sanity is restored by dismissing it which means the only time ur crazy is when your not sure lmao i know thats not right tho lol

irrelvant but.................cft you said we were all black but mutated due to our regions climate then how come when the person moves back to same plce where black peoplelive eg africa we do notmutate back to black or black not mutate to white.

lol

[AmbientSound]

4th-D, I'm not sure it is possible for our genes to mutate back (or, perhaps in this case, un-mutate?). I think that's almost like erasing progress you made. Sort of like meeting someone who changes your life, having them leave, and then going right back to where you were before they showed up, as if they were never there in the first place.

[CFTraveler]

irrelvant but.................cft you said we were all black but mutated due to our regions climate then how come when the person moves back to same plce where black peoplelive eg africa we do notmutate back to black or black not mutate to white.

lol

Getting a tan is not mutating, and getting more pale is not mutating either.  There has to be genetic change,  mutation is random, not 'towards a specific outcome'.

In other words, a bunch of black people that moved to a cold climate with very little sun will not get whiter- what happens is that the population will start getting sick because of lack of vitamin D (less sun exposure, more certain types of diseases related to vitamin d deficiency will happen), and the ones who survive will reproduce.  Now, out of a bunch of babies, some will have  a natural mutation that includes less melanine in the skin- a natural mutation that would happen everywhere equally.  But the babies with that 'less melanin' mutation will have more chances of surviving than the ones with 'more melanin'- and of those, more will have  babies with this mutation.  So now you have a gene pool (many many generations later) that are simply born with less melanin, simply because their parents have less melanin.  Pretty soon a trait becomes dominant (although genetically recessive) because by now, most of the population with less melanin are thriving in this less bright environment- they have adapted to allow for the less sunlight, by becoming much lighter.
This is adaptation, and we see this happen in any population- changes in height, size, and other characteristics.

So the answer is, that if something happened to the planet where it would become hotter and brighter, chances are that the 'whitest' people would start to die off of cancer and other types of 'too much UV' diseases, and the ones that can survive the conditions, the colored people (and by 'colored' I don't necessarily mean african black, I mean whoever has enough pigmentation in their skin to protect them) will survive better.  And they will have children of varied genes, both dark and light, and whoever gets the 'melanin' gene will have more protection against certain types of cancer.  And more of those will survive, and on and on.

In a way Ambient Sound is right- it wouldn't be the same as going back to African negro, chances are it would be a different type of colored, because the gene pool that we are starting out with is different than a quarter of a million years ago, (or however long it was, depends who you ask) and the weather and geographical conditions are different too, and the way we manipulate our environment is different too, to add to the possibilities.

So who knows, maybe we'll get orange.

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