What is the difference between astral projection and OBE ?

[gracehoper]

I thought they were the same, but reading through these forums I have to question myself. I am new to the forum and plan on sharing some of my experiences here soon. Best.

[CFTraveler]

I'll tell you what I think:

Your mind projects at night, when you sleep.  It projects (that is, changes focus) to the nonphysical.  The nonphysical is some sort of energy matrix that takes form according to what 'mind' projects to it.  Form (or information) is not necessarily energy, but the matrix is.

When you sleep, your conscious mind turns 'off', or stops focusing.  Your subconscious mind then takes over, and gives the energy matrix it's form.  Your subconscious is basically programming the energy matrix with it's own information, and it's considered a 'personal' part of this matrix.  That is, you are projecting into your mind, because your mind is giving it shape.  Sometimes when dreaming, your conscious mind 'wakes up', and takes part in the dream.  This is called 'lucid dreaming', because you realize that what you're dreaming isn't 'physical' life.
-It is irrelevant whether 'mindspace' is space in the physical sense (although most scientists don't know what space is, to be frank) or not, we like to call it 'nonlocal', so whatever dimensions can be attributed to it are not necessarily 'physical' properties, in the newtonian definition of dimensions).

This energy matrix can be called the astral or the etheric(RTZ), depending on it's relation to physical life.  If it's basically an energetic representation of the physical, it's called the etheric (or RTZ), and if it becomes 'stranger', 'not realistic' and/or 'more dreamlike', it's called the astral.  Most dreams are astral projections to a personal place, and shaped/populated by your subconscious mind. (repeat, I know.)

When you are in a personal space of the astral, and you wander off to areas that are collectively formed (once again, remember that the astral is an energetic medium that is shaped by mind) you have gone into the 'astral' and are having an 'astral projection'.  You can astral project from a dream, or from the wake state.  Phasing is a way to AP from a wake state.  In the collective astral you can meet others, be it projectors or 'native' entities.

When you want to have an OBE (that is, have an out of body experience) there is a discernible exit from your physical body- you can go directly into the astral, or you can have an RTZ OBE (that is, into the etheric or Real Time Zone.)  Most first time OBEs that happen, are in the RTZ.  There's lots of reasons why, I think it's just easier to psychologically deal with-most of the time).

You can project asleep or awake, asleep would be a dream, although there have been many spontaneous RTZ projections in which a person 'wakes up' to floating around in their kitchen (for example).  Most dreaming is in the astral, most OBEs at least start out in the RTZ.

Phasing and WILDing are probably the same thing, it's just the belief system of the practitioner which makes the difference.  The difference between a regular LD and a WILD is that it is done from the wake state, hence it's name- Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming.

So, they're all projections.  Some are dreams, APs or OBEs.
--And, I guess that's it.

[kurtykurt42]

Wow CFTraveler that's a good explanation! I give it an A+

Many people also refer to them as density levels. I am still a little confused about that. For example is the RTZ equal to the 4th density and 5th and 6th density refer the the astral planes and mental planes?



Many people believe that in 2012 the 4th density (RTZ) will become our new reality.

[gracehoper]

Thank you, both of you. Very informative. I've also heard of this theory about 2012. I feel the veil is already lifting.

I give you both an A+   

[Xanth]

One has to really wonder about the Fourth Density theory.
Is it only the Earth?  Or would it also have to be the entire universe?
Also... does anyone else realize that you'd probably have to not have a physical body to move into this Fourth Density?
Hence... you're looking at a lot of physical deaths.  Now, this doesn't bother me at all... except, I'd like to know HOW this mass death will occur.

[kurtykurt42]

It will be our entire solar system that rises to the new density level as it passes into the 4th density area of our galaxy.

Matter still exists in the 4th density level it just has a higher vibrational frequency level.

[Xanth]

I'm more wondering *how* this matter will manifest or change to get there... or what the vibration increase will do to it, if anything.

[CFTraveler]

If it is indeed how it seems (whatever that means) we probably won't even notice it- because every manifestation is 'measured' by comparison- and if all discernible matter shifts, it won't be a measurable thing, it seems to me.
So the only way we would tell is in the quality (or change) of how we think and perceive.  And I'm not sure if we'll notice it, if any of this actually happens.

[Xanth]

It would be interesting if, on the day, we wake up and notice that massive changes in the world happen that day.
Everyone is nice... everyone gives instead of takes... everyone is just... awesome. 

If that happened, I think I'd consider another go-around at this thing called life.

[gracehoper]

agree to that xanath...

[omcasey]

"I'm more wondering *how* this matter will manifest or change to get there... or what the vibration increase will do to it, if anything."

Xanth, CF, Others....

Are you not feeling the vibrations(/vibrational increase) in your bodies?  I began experiencing it 1 year ago, in January 2009.  I can feel my structure actually changing.  There is a multi-dimensional inner sound I hear, 24/7 day and night, which I feel is at the center of the restructuring.  And mass vibrational energies working throughout my body.  It often feels I am dematerializing.  I know, in a sense, this is so.  My light quotient is increasing and I am becoming less 'dense'.  This is taking place at a molecular level.  It is both feelable and experiencable.  There is no missing it.

[kurtykurt42]

I have felt incredible energetic increases in my energy body, but I just thought that it was from all my hard training! 

I also 'hear', more like feel the multi-dimensional inner sound that seems to ring loudly as I focus on the chakras.

[CFTraveler]

Xanth, CF, Others....

Are you not feeling the vibrations(/vibrational increase) in your bodies?  I began experiencing it 1 year ago, in January 2009.  I can feel my structure actually changing.  There is a multi-dimensional inner sound I hear, 24/7 day and night, which I feel is at the center of the restructuring.  And mass vibrational energies working throughout my body.  It often feels I am dematerializing.  I know, in a sense, this is so.  My light quotient is increasing and I am becoming less 'dense'.  This is taking place at a molecular level.  It is both feelable and experiencable.  There is no missing it.

When I started projecting on purpose, the vibrations and chakra sensations were fierce.  I sometimes could see the energy vortexes sticking out of my body just prior to exiting.  The more I did it, the more subtle the vibrations became, and the less 'violent' they were.  At some point I started getting them before it was time to exit, and at some point they were not noticeable at all.
So it is my opinion that vibrations are only noticeable if they are 'shocking and obvious', but when you get used to them you stop noticing them, because the transition is faster and smoother.
Nowadays I do feel vibrations upon reentry only.
However, I do think that the vibrations you are talking about are something other than exit vibrations.  Some sort of transformational shock.  Just my opinion, of course.
ps. I do hear that 'hum' that is always there, but I always have (or at least since I was twelve and had my first truly 'mystical' experience).  Nowadays I don't pay attention to it, but if I do, it's always there.

[omcasey]

CF,

Thanks for your reply.  I'm not referring to 'exit' vibrations, though.  I'm talking about the vibration you are, the vibration your physical body and independent physical body systems are.  And more.  I can feel myself -(and my body) -being accelerated day and night vibrationally.  I feel cozens and dozens of vibrational phenomena.  The sound, for me, is no longer just a humm.  At this point it is so prevalent there is no turning my attention from it.  It has a core, a base wave structure, and so much more I could only begin to relay to it.  I will just say this for now.

Are you feeling anything at all like this during the day? -(*referring to vibration

[Stookie]

Maybe it's not from outside yourself, but a change in your own consciousness. Maybe it's your path and attitude that brings about the change. The more you find that part of yourself, the more you recognize the subtleties and also recognize it in the world around you (whereas most sleep through it). In other words, not everyone is feeling it for a reason - it's personal.

When others report of this growth as well and get together, the conclusion may be the world is starting to "vibrate at a higher frequency", but perhaps it's just the encouragement they get from the group that intensifies it.

The only times I feel as though I'm "vibrating at a higher rate" is when I bring it on myself through meditation and energy work. I do wish the world would bring it automatically though. I hope I'm not missing out.

[SolarLogos]

Xanth, CF, Others....

Are you not feeling the vibrations(/vibrational increase) in your bodies?  I began experiencing it 1 year ago, in January 2009.  I can feel my structure actually changing.  There is a multi-dimensional inner sound I hear, 24/7 day and night, which I feel is at the center of the restructuring. 

I am also hearing something, but it sounds like tinnitus - a white noise in my left ear - could you describe the muti-dimensional effects of the sound you hear?  I am concerned about EM effects causing it - cell towers etc.  Thanks

[Lionheart]

 Hello Solar Logos, this is a 2010 thread that has gone quiet.
That sound could be Tinnitus for real. It could also be a sound coming from electrical wires, cell towers, etc. Do you hear it all the time or just when you attempt to meditate/AP?
If you hear it while meditating or AP attempt, these are the sounds that are associated with the shift/phase from Physical to Non Physical and are perfectly normal.
You could go to your local Doctor to be tested for Tinnitus first as a kind of process of elimination.

[M4RT1N]

If you hear it while meditating or AP attempt, these are the sounds that are associated with the shift/phase from Physical to Non Physical and are perfectly normal.

i hear those sounds whenever it's extremely quiet.

[Xanth]

If you're sitting there right now listening to it, it's simply the sound of no-sound.

Even when we think our senses aren't "processing" anything, they're actually still processing... that's the sound you're hearing.
Your sight works that way too.  So does every other sense you have.

With your sight, when you close your eyes... you don't see "NOTHING", you see a mishmash of black/grey/etc swirling and twisting infront of you.