Galantamine experiment

[T.L.]

Yes it is supposed to be sold only with prescription, well at least here in mexico too, but I got lucky they didn't ask for it lol!

whoa man you have the Galantamine that is meant for prescription only? What is the milligrams? Make you are not taking more than 4-8 mg's of it. Without prescriptions here in the US you can get Galantamine that is in 4 milligrams and 8 milligrams I would not do it in any higher dose than that. As a matter of fact I went for the 4 milligram pills. Choline is pretty important in this, and to get the best effect you probably want to take some choline in with the galantamine. Since you can't find it mixed, perhaps you can just pick up a separate bottle of choline. If you do try to make sure that the milligrams for the choline pills is anywhere from 200 mg (which is what is in the pills I use) to 400 mg or so. Choline is something naturally in your body so it doesn't make a big difference (cant hurt you in the same way a chemical not naturally in your body can), the only reason why I said 200-400 is because you want to make sure it will be effective. I was under the impression that the prescription brand of galantamine was in really high doses, correct me if I am wrong. Anyway just let me know what the milligrams those galantamine pills are. Good Luck.

[lee46]

I've got the 4 mg's tablets (I wouldn't even take 8 mg's as this is new for me and I don't like messing up with pills in high doses), I'll get the choline pills from GNC and try mixing them next weekend and I'll let you know how it goes with that.

[T.L.]

alright cool, good luck.

[Fourthdimension]

i looked every where for galnatamine and choline but could nt get any customer service in holland and baratts health job is rubbish. i was referred to 5 diffrent shops in the end i decided to get
valerian
choline inositol
l5 hydroxy tryptophan (if only it was tryptamine haha)
st johns wort
and lemon balm

will any of the above aide my pojection attempts.

also is it worth my start dosing up tonight on what i just got if i am gonna get stoned. will been stoned lessen the effect of the tablets.

[lee46]

I tried looking for galantamine and they had no idea what I was talking about, so I searched for commercial names of the pills, the ones I got are "Reminyl" by Janssen-Cilag and it says is a product from Italy, so try looking for it by a commercial name and see if you get lucky like I did.

[T.L.]

Careful with the valerian, I've read a lot about it causing vivid nightmares. There is a chance though that perhaps it could aid in projection, I've thought about it before. The problem for most people though would be the nightmare thing. I rarely have bad dreams that are 'scary' so it wouldn't be a problem, but there was no incentive for me to try because I wouldn't want to insist on someone trying something that could cause vivid nightmares heh.

[CFTraveler]

I had some negative results with Valerian.  Then I found out it is herbal Valium (or rather, Valium is synthetic Valerian), which I'm allergic to.  Hence, lost time episodes and really horrific hallucinogenic nightmares.  So, if you have problems with Valium, don't take Valerian.

[Fourthdimension]

hI,
I ll try the commercial poducts and se if i can get galantamine thanks.
about a month ago i tried combing
korean gingseng 75 mg
a compound tablet called calms that has
    valerian 45mg
    passiflora 16.82 mg
    wild lettuce 22.5mg
   vervain 60mg
   hops 30mg

unfortunatly i go through stages where i ll have a good month and not get drunk or stoned or i ll have a bad month where i ll get intoxiacted more often and the time period of the above experimentation occured on a bad month lol so if there was any benefits of the concoction i dont think i would have noticed.

but i found that the adverse side effects i suffered where mainly bad heads and light sensistivity as well as disorientation
of which of the above substances caused that i dont know i might of even just been the intoxication.

the only way i ll find out is if i ll try again when am straight for a while.

it also mad eme feel really sleepy but mabye that was just mental because the tablets i bought are sleeping tablets so mabye thats why i made my self feel tired

on the other hand today i bought
st johns wort and valerian in tincture form each 500 mg
choline inositol, (choline bitartrate 250 mg and inositol 250 mg)(tablet form)
lemon balm 245mg and l5 hydroxy tryptophan 50mg which can be brewed into a tea

i feel i ll  have more better effects with this concoction (and its not just cause of the pretty packaging lol)
because for one theres not alot of tablets to take because tablets make me feel horrble i just dont like them lol
and cause am having a stright run without intoxiacation

so i ll let you know how it goes

before i leave you all i gota tell you something i dont know if it just makes me laugh as an insid joke or if you ll find it funny but

i teach mountain climbing and was in the parachute regiment for a bit and it was always dille in my head that the diffrence between you dying and you living on the mountains is to extract fear from the equaion and replace it with a (think procedure!) prioritise and what ifs and whats the odds and best chances.
so when ever i was faced in a sticky situation
for example i feel 500 ft once on a rope and stopped my self falling the last 100m by locking off my belay and during the fall i was nt scared i was just thinking (procudre) (now this procudre is done whats my next step to get myself out of this hole i just dug lol)
and it happens every time am in a sticky situation

so what am getting at is i have had a few night mares lately and in the night mares am never scared i just seem to think (ok now what, how can i out run this person) haha i just found that funny for some reason cause am weird lol

see you all later 

[lee46]

wish I had that attitude for scary things! lol I'm still working on my fears and dream lessons.


About valerian, my niece was given that when she was like 3 or 4 years old because she was "diagnosed" as hyperactive (which is quite normal behaviour for a kid her age) but the doc wanted to give her medicine and my sister refused so she gave her valerian to calm her down, so my question is, how does valerian work for AP if it calms you down? wouldn't you easily fall asleep faster?

[nickspry]

If you buy those combination pills with galantamine, choline, B6 etc, you should get one without melatonin.
Melatonin increases deep sleep, and causes a REM rebound effect, so it should be taken before going to bed (rather than with the galantamine after 5 or 6 hours sleep) - they are counterproductive when taken together. When taken before retiring, it will work synergistically with the galantamine which is taken later,and give good results. Companies that sell it as part of a lucid dreaming pill with galantamine don't seem to understand the way it works. 5HTP,  and herbs like St johns Wort and lemon balm all work this way too, by increasing serotonin levels and the amount of time spent in deep sleep, and should be taken before retiring.
As for the valerian, I think it may work in a similar way to melatonin ie: increase deep (non REM) sleep in the early sleep cycles, causing REM rebound and very intense dreaming when it wears off (as the brain tries to catch up on REM sleep).  I wouldn't take it directly before a projection attempt as this would be taking sedative at a time when you need a stimulant as lee46 pointed out.

[Fourthdimension]

well last night i took valerian and st johns wort and broke a lemon balm capsule as well as l5 hydroxy tritophan and mixed them with mint tea and took it an hour before bed

i started feeling relaxed as if my muscles were numb and so then i took the same again 30 mins before bed time. so with ths i started to not be able to concentrate on my programming for the computer and i flet so flimbsy as if my hands were barely even there but on the second occasion the hydroxy and lemon balm capsules were broke directly in my mouth as the powder was just lying at bottom of cup with the first attempt

finally 10 mins before bed i take valerian and st johns wort adn the hydroxy tritophan and some choline inisitol i go to the mirrow and look in and my eyes are really dialated my pupils are huge and i feel almost stoned. i look at the wall and it seems as if i can see snow all around me lol

i then g to sleep and have this very vivd dream that happens happily for once and i sleep for 14 hours straight (lucky am on holiday) after 10 hours sleep i tell myslef i need to wake up and thus start having false awakenings.

so with the snow seeing thing was that a hullcination?
or was i just stoned?

the doeses taking last night were 1500mg valerian 1500mg st johns wort 150mg hydroxy tritophan
750 mg chline inisitol 835 mg lemon balm

now am gonna start trying to find out which is the one making me unable to concentrate and take this out of the equation.

what is a sleeprebound nickspry

see you all later

[lee46]

the doeses taking last night were 1500mg valerian 1500mg st johns wort 150mg hydroxy tritophan
750 mg chline inisitol 835 mg lemon balm

That's way too much and is quite agressive for your body (in my opinion) and I think that explains why you slept 14 hours straight. When you start using something very often, with time your body will need higher doses to react to it, so imagine what's going to happen if you start with high doses already. One example for that in my experience, I think I'm already inmune to caffeine, I used to drink at least 3 cups of coffee a day, now I don't have a problem drinking a coffee before going to bed, it does nothing to me anymore.

Oh and one last advice on taking meds/herbs, read as much information about them (pros/cons) before taking them, so that you know what are it's effects and have enogh info of what to do if something doesn't work or goes wrong.

[nickspry]

what is a sleeprebound nickspry

REM  rebound is what happens when the brain gets too little REM sleep (dreaming sleep) during the first few hours of the night. It then tries to make up the for the loss in the later stages of sleep by intensifying and lengthening the periods of REM, giving you extremely vivid dreams. Substances that increase deep sleep (non-REM sleep), such as melatonin, 5HTP or alcohol can cause REM rebound in the later stages of sleep. It's very good for lucid dreaming and astral projection.

Just a thought, but if I were you I'd be careful with overdoing 5 hydroxytriptophan and St John Wort at the same time. They both increase serotonin levels which can be dangerous (serotonin syndrome). Lemon balm inhibits serotonin production, so I would say it's working against the other two. In my opinion, you could lose the lemon balm and St Johns Wort and just go with the 5HTP. Same effect, but safer...

[Fourthdimension]

Hi lee, your right about overdosing because i also drink about 5 litres of tea with mint leaves per day and now before bed i have 1 litre and it does nothing lol

hi nickspry, so what your saying is sleep rebound is when the brain instantly goes to deep sleep missing the other cycles of rem? if this is the case does it give me less chance of rembering my dreams or more?

As for 5htp and st johns wort and lemon balm .well cause of issues in my life i have developed a kind of anxiety disorder at present and in the past day the anxiety has gone whilst taking those herbs on the other hand i have been feeling like (sometimes like when i first took them i felt happy and expectant but after a while i start to feel like "whats the oint in this whole cycle of life haha".

so because they all produce serotonin (the feel good chemical) .lemon balm is nt really needed because it inhibits serotinin.
What happens if i over do it and then produce for too much serotontin

if i over do 5htp does it matte much or if i over do st johns wort does that matter much aslong as i dont over do them together?

also if i am trying to get projections o you think it will be relevant to take st johns wort  and valerian? would it be relevant to take 5 htp?

i think st johns wort gives mild feeling of mental relaxation a bit like day dreaming and makes it hard to concentrate
i feel as if valerian does the same as st johns wort but at a much bigger rate.
i feel as if 5ht akes you fel relaxed physically ad numb.
lemon balm seems to give u a temprorary upliftment.

thanks

[CFTraveler]

My understanding is that St. John's Wort is an antidepressant (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) and Valerian a tranquilizer (depressant) which is why it makes you sleepy (or is supposed to).  So their action can be counterproductive.  Or something like that.

However, St. John's Wort has some interesting side effects- if you take too much, it can give you terrific headaches, because too much brain activity 'fire up the neurons' too much.   Ever heard of a serotonin storm?  Look it up.  I don't think it can cause it as much as synthetic antidepressants, which can go as far as to cause strokes and stuff like that.
SJW (as I fondly call it) can also aggravate skin problems, and you should stay away from the sun if you take it.

And yes, I take it once a month.  It really works too.  But if I take too much, I get a headache.

[nickspry]

hi nickspry, so what your saying is sleep rebound is when the brain instantly goes to deep sleep missing the other cycles of rem? if this is the case does it give me less chance of rembering my dreams or more?
thanks

Yes, your dreams in the early morning should be very vivid and more easy to remember. You're also more likely to have a lucid dream.

What happens if i over do it and then produce for too much serotontin

If you really overdo it, it can kill you so be careful. Google "serotonin syndrome" for more info on this. 5HTP is more effective than St Johns Wort for dreaming purposes, and it's mostly out of your system by morning. 150mg is plenty. More than this won't give you a better effect, but will increase the risk of side-effects.

[sublimy99]

Here's what I wrote in my dream journal after using galantamine/choline combo:

First: Please note, I know I'm abusing the galantamine and have learned my lesson the hard way.
It's just frustrating when I get so excited that I get to lucid dream and then it the Galantamine doesn't work.

Dream journal:

I woke up in the middle of the night, turned out it was not so middle and more like a couple hours
after going to bed. I took two galantamine/choline tabs and went back to bed and got no results.
I woke up again at 2:30, took two more and went back to bed to have the craziest dreams. I remember being
in a house all alone and it was dark and something to do with the entity, then I was in another house and
I felt like it was my aunts house in Little Compton. There was a girl there with her daughter and I was trying
to explain who's house it was. I looked at a clock and it was backwards and the numbers were all messed up.
I became lucid and ran into the girl again, she looked diffferent. I looked right into her eyes and said, with certainty,
I'm dreaming you. She said "oh yeah, and smiled. I  tried to talk to her and ask her if she was real or not.
Could she tell me any secrets from the other side, she never responded. I mentioned that I thought maybe she was someone
somewhere else who was also dreaming, still no response. I started walking around(still lucid) and the walls were different colors.
I started to get real thirsty and I found myself at the sink trying to get a drink, but couldn't feel the water go down.
That girl appeared again and tried to help me and gave me some water from a shot glass and I still couldn't feel the water.


I woke up, very thirsty and short of breath. I was also all weirded out, like I was high or tripping lightly. I got up
and drank some water and green tea and decided it wasn't a good idea to take so much galantamine. However, after I calmed down,
I went back to sleep and had some amazing lucid dreams. The best one was jumping off a platform/stairway over the railing.
There was an ocean below. I was going to just plunge in the ocean, but decided to swoop upwards and fly.
Then I just started floating and slowly spinning over the ocean, looking at the people below and yelling at them to look up
at me. I'm such a show off in my dreams. The people never did look up. I kept spinning and looking down at all different
people in the water. Then I swooped down to go for this hot girl, who was sitting in a chair in the ocean.

Another lucid dream I had that morning, consisted of me going into a bedroom and hopping up on the bed, on my knees
and I was going to go forward into the wall and I started falling backwards. I decided to go along with that feeling, hoping
it would turn into an obe,(I heard falling backwards in a lucid dream can turn into an obe) well it didn't, but I got some vibrations out of it.
End of journal entry.

Ok, so last night I woke up at 3:11 am
took 2 galantamine tabs (I know, I'm going back to one) They didn't work as far as lucidity, but I had some weird dreams. Also, I took 5htp before bed. This was another mistake. The galantamine works good sometimes and yes, I allow one to three days between.
Sometimes it just doesn't work, but when I put my non-galantamine lucid dreams next to my galantamine induced dreams, I'll take the galantamine induced dreams hands down, everytime! They are more interesting, more vivd, they last longer. If I just relied on regular lucid dreams, Id have them 4 times a year , with the galantamine, much more and better. I just got to regulate my intake. One worked fine the first couple times, but I'm a big guy and it usually takes more for things to work. However, four in one night was so wrong. I was messed up by that one, though, like I said, after the first set of dreams, the second set was awesome!
oK, So, lesson learned!!

[Fourthdimension]

Thanks cft i ll look that up. I get headaches from gingsen but never from st johns wort lol

cool thanks for info nick spry so would you recommend taking mabye :-
5htp + valerian +choline inistol for first epxperiment
can i overdose on valerian i think thats the thing that makes me high lol.
its adddictive i think(althrough am no addicted lol)
cause last night i had 1500mg of valerian today i had about 500 mg and still gotta dose up before bed cause its wore off already lol

and you think st johns wort should just be left out of the equation for the time been.

alsosublimly 99 are you sure its the galantamine thats giving you the dreams and not 5 htp
cause i had alot of htp last night and this weird dream

firstly nothing in my life or within the last week could have even brung on such a dream i had last night
it was about witches steeling a girl and my comforting the gierls sister and the girls sister wanting me to move in with her and the girls mam and dad holding the witches at axe point and making one double over and killed with an axe. and the girl was hiding in the undergrowth and there was no sky just a ceiling with nails and bats stuck to the nails.

i found that the most weirdest thing about htp dreams is that during them i feel like am onlooking and i dont feel part of the dreams as if i can watch scenes that dont involve me and then when theres scenes with me i can play my part.
i feel more connected to the characters in htp dreams

lol
any how off to research

[Fourthdimension]

wow thanks nickspry and cft for informing me on the issue of seroonin storm

"Symptom onset is usually rapid, often occurring within minutes. Serotonin syndrome encompasses a wide range of clinical findings. Mild symptoms may only consist of increased heart rate, shivering, sweating, dilated pupils, myoclonus (intermittent tremor or twitching), as well as overresponsive reflexes.[1] Moderate intoxication includes additional abnormalities such as hyperactive bowel sounds, high blood pressure and hyperthermia; a temperature as high as 40 °C (104 °F) is common in moderate intoxication. The overactive reflexes and clonus in moderate cases may be greater in the lower limbs than in the upper limbs. Mental status changes include hypervigilance and agitation.[1] Severe symptoms include severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure that may lead to shock. Temperature may rise to above 41.1 °C (106.0 °F) in life-threatening cases. Other abnormalities include metabolic acidosis, rhabdomyolysis, seizures, renal failure, and disseminated intravascular coagulation; these effects usually arise as a consequence of hyperthermia.[1][3]

The symptoms are often described as a clinical triad of abnormalities:[1][5]

    * Cognitive effects: mental confusion, hypomania, hallucinations, agitation, headache, coma
    * Autonomic effects: shivering, sweating, hyperthermia, hypertension, tachycardia, nausea, diarrhea.
    * Somatic effects: myoclonus (muscle twitching), hyperreflexia (manifested by clonus), tremor.
"
i had dialeted pupils, i twitched a little and i had overactive bowel sounds, i felt slow so i suppose that comes unde mental confusion and describes lack of concentation

am i just worrying too much or should i discontinue use for a few days till these symptons go away

[nickspry]

Take a couple of days off Fourthdimension to make sure it's completely out of your system. Then I'd just stick to the 5HTP, but I wouldn't go above 150mg per day (or night). And I wouldn't use it every night as it will lose it's effectiveness.

I really wouldn't bother with valerian or lemon balm if you're looking to increase your odds of lucid dreams or astral projection. Lemon balm will do nothing for dreaming, it's best use is for for anxiety - when you're awake. Valerian is a sedative and reduces awareness rather than increasing it. It might make your dreams more strange, but could decrease the chances of them becoming lucid.  I'd only use it for anxiety and insomnia.

This (in my opinion) is the best combination for lucid dreaming/astral projection:

Before going to bed take:
150mg 5HTP  


Set an alarm to wake you after 5 or 6 hours.

Then take:
4mg galantamine
600mg Alpha GPC (most effective form of choline, and fastest acting) or 500mg choline bitartrate

optional extras: (taken with galantamine)
300mg L-Theanine

If you can stay awake for 20-30 mins before you take the galantamine, it will greatly increase your chances of projection, but may make it harder to get back to sleep.


Now go back to sleep while using a lucid dream or astral projection induction method (This is still the most important part!!!)


It doesn't always make you lucid, but taking more won't help, it'll just give you insomnia. Leave it 3 days till your next attempt or you'll become desensitized to the galantamine. Just practice conventional methods in the meantime. Good luck.

[Fourthdimension]

thanks nickspy i ll let u know what happens. i cant get my hands on galantamine though can you suggest something to replace it with that has the same effect

[T.L.]

The best one was jumping off a platform/stairway over the railing.
There was an ocean below. I was going to just plunge in the ocean, but decided to swoop upwards and fly.
Then I just started floating and slowly spinning over the ocean, looking at the people below and yelling at them to look up
at me. I'm such a show off in my dreams. The people never did look up. I kept spinning and looking down at all different
people in the water.

That's insane man, not your dream but how closely that resembles one of my out of body experiences I had a while back. I was laying on my bed (probably spent about 10 minutes relaxing) and the vibrations swept in. I forced them to get stronger, then an intense downward motion came over me. I concentrated on sight as I was just falling through darkness. Once it kicked in all I seen was blue, a really nice blue sky. I looked down and all I seen was blue. Very crisp clear blue water and some dots. I was at a great height. I continued falling and once I got closer I seen the dots were actually people, though they were not swimming. They were just bobbing up and down like corpses, motionless and if I remember correctly eyes open. I felt I had direction, I felt as if I was being drawn to a certain area so I just went with it. There were so many people trying to pick out one would be impossible.

I got the impression that some of these people were in fact real people (real as in physically alive) dreaming, completely unawares of their current situation. Never the less I ended up drawn to one area in particular and I recognized a person. I seen my brother Jim. I shouted and tried to get his attention to no avail, he was completely comatose for a lack of a better word. Everyone was just gazing off into space no movement, nothing just a sea of consciousness. I called him later that day and told him about the experience (all of my brothers know about my projections). Anyway he asked me what time and he said he was in fact sleeping during that time and told me about a dream he had. He said that he was having a dream about visitors falling from the sky. He said one tried to get his attention but the others that were in his dream were telling him he had better not look at any of the visitors and just ignore them because they were dangerous. So he was pretty interested about my experience because he said it sounded so familiar it reminded him of his dream he had around the same time frame. My experience was in the obe state and not a dream, but your dream sounded interesting.

Also be careful with the galantamine because you will end up becoming tolerant to it and from what you said it seems that you already are. Not to mention taking that much over a period of time could stress a persons heart esp. if they have a genetic predisposition to problems of the heart.

[nickspry]

i cant get my hands on galantamine though can you suggest something to replace it with that has the same effect

The only easily available substitute I know is huperzine A, but it needs to be used with a nicotine patch to have the same effect as galantamine, so it's not a good idea in the long term. You can buy galantamine on the internet easily enough. It's expensive, but a bottle lasts a long time time if you use it the right way. I'm not recommending it though, I prefer the natural methods myself  

There is one other herb you can try which works for me sometimes, and that's mugwort. You can make it into an infusion before going to bed, and then drink it after 5-6 hours sleep. One heaped teaspoon of dried herb is enough.Then try a mind awake/body asleep phasing type technique. It's given me some good projections in the past, but shouldn't be taken every night as it contains thujone which is toxic if allowed to build up in the body over time. You can safely do it every third night or so, so you could alternate it with other methods. It can be taken with choline or DMAE to increase effectiveness. It doesn't seem to work every time and it can vary in strength from batch to batch. It can also make your dreams quite surreal.
I'd get organic mugwort from a herbal supplier, you don't want any pesticides in it.

[T.L.]

It's expensive, but a bottle lasts a long time time if you use it the right way.

$30.00 is expensive? I must be rich  I know what you meant, just being sarcastic. You are probably thinking "galantamind" prices that brand of galantamine is about $80.00 a bottle. Once I read the reviews for other lower price brands I found a pretty reputable brand that goes under the name "Lucid Dreamer" from a company called Dreamamins and it works great. I don't like naming companies or anything but obviously I don't want to see one of you guys overspend for something that should be cheap and easily attainable. If you decide to go with other companies just beware of the hyped up products esp. the ones that contain melatonin. You do not want the pills that also contain melatonin because it will counteract the affects of the galantamine and choline.

[nickspry]

We can't even buy galantamine in the UK (it's prescription only), so we have to have it shipped from the US. It's hard to find pure galantamine and as you say, those dream pill combinations are way overpriced....