Question to phasing experts

[faxman]

I have been trying to phase for now 5 months. I do train seriously, almost everyday and usually from 30 minutes to 2 hours.

The problem is that I never see hypnagogic images. I am relaxed, I can calm my mind but the blackness remains black so I am kind of frustrated as I can't reach the 3d blackness.

Any idea about how to phase without seeing hypnagogic pictures behind the eyelids ?

[Xanth]

You might never see them.
Don't worry about seeing anything... just notice.

http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

Read that.
Then go and do what I'm currently doing and read *EVERY* single post that Frank has ever made, starting with the earliest ones. 
You'll learn stuff you never even thought about. 

[faxman]

Thank you Xanth for such a fast answer.

I read this great post from Franck maybe 2 times. I'll surely read it again.

I try to notice the differences in the blackness but to me, everything looks the same. I will anyway keep on practicing.

[3588897]

I'm just wondering, are you trying to force something to happen? What I mean is, are you staring at the blackness and expecting to see something or are you actually noticing it while holding a passive awareness instead?

I'm asking this because for the past month and a half, I have been staring at my eyelids and expecting something to happen. Nothing would happen and I would get bored and give up. Yesterday, it kind of hit me what I was doing, so I tried staring at the blackness behind my eyelids and, as expected, nothing happened. I got up, took a 20 minute break, went back and tried again. But instead of staring, I kept a passive awareness where I was noticing everything but I wasn't expecting anything or trying to make something happen. I just held my awareness like this for a few minutes and completely lost awareness of my body. After a while, I started getting hypnagogic imagery and sound again, which I haven't had in quite a while.

[faxman]

I usually try to stay passive but maybe that I am not enough, maybe I force a little even if I try not to.

I'll try again with that in mind.

[Xanth]

I usually try to stay passive but maybe that I am not enough, maybe I force a little even if I try not to.

I'll try again with that in mind.

Re-read that first sentence.

"I usually try to stay passive but maybe that I am not enough, maybe I force a little even if I try not to."

I underlined the important part.
That section of the sentence says you're trying too hard to "make" it happen because you think you're either doing too little or too much.
Just "let it flow".  Become the passive observer with no expectations. 

[faxman]

I am always trying to be as objective as possible that's why I wrote this sentence, not being 100% sure of what I do during my practice if I try to analyze a session afterwards

But for sure, I'll let go even more.

[missym]

Just let it happen, it happens to everybody naturally as we fall asleep..
Good luck 

[indian]

I am always trying to be as objective as possible that's why I wrote this sentence, not being 100% sure of what I do during my practice if I try to analyze a session afterwards

But for sure, I'll let go even more.

The very first thing. "Looking at the back of your eyelids" . I don't know how people define this term, But as far as I think, it's a WRONG way to put this "seeing" or "observing".

When I started phasing, I started to look at the back of my eyelids, then suddenly I realized that this is NOT the way I am getting it. Actually, we DO NOT need to stare at the back of the eyelids. WE just need to be aware of our being.

For example, what you do when you go to sleep? you just lay down and DO NOT relax yourself, that relaxation comes naturally, and you need that kind of relaxation. You just go to sleep, that's it. Go to sleep and just deep down inside let your consciousness be awake.  And that awakeness doesnt mean that you keep your mind awake, NO NO, never try to remain awake in your head. That awakeness is something  deeper than mind, that can be felt as a Tiny point somewhere in the body, may be around your throat, or may be just somewhere in your chest. It is not a full body awareness, it's a just a little point that needs to be aware somewhere. If you will be relaxed, you will notice it for sure.

And that point (or say awareness) will remain awake even after you body is asleep. It is very easy to get. What you have to do is "DO NOT DO ANYTHING". Do NOT try to stare, do not try to reach anywhere, just go to sleep and deep down be aware of your sleep. Find a very comfortable position, it doesn't matter that you lay on your back or anything like that. Find a comfortable position for your body to  go to sleep.

In the beginning, you will loose your consciousness and you will go in deep sleep, but if you keep practicing this, one day you will be fully awake and your body will be in deep sleep. You need time, there is no hurry. Take your time, give it months or may be years, no problem at all.

The main thing we lack is Patience. We really don't know how to be patient, we want everything here and now and that doesn't apply in this spiritual world. There is no rush to go ahead, you will be there if you can be a little patient.

Forget about blackness, forget about noticing. Just go to sleep and keep your awareness somewhere deep down inside your body.


Let me know if I can be any more help.

Regards

[Xanth]

When I started phasing, I started to look at the back of my eyelids, then suddenly I realized that this is NOT the way I am getting it. Actually, we DO NOT need to stare at the back of the eyelids. WE just need to be aware of our being.

You should be saying here "Actually, *I* DO NOT need to stare...".
Using "we" implies that what you experienced works for everyone.  This isn't the case. 

It might not work for you to "stare at the back of your eyelids"... but, using Frank's Phasing Technique, that's exactly what you should do.
The point to the "noticing" is to keep your mind alert and occupied while your body falls asleep. 

Your "Being aware of our being" bit is achieving exactly the same thing, just in a slightly different way.  <-- you're actually just "noticing" here too. 

[indian]

You should be saying here "Actually, *I* DO NOT need to stare...".
Using "we" implies that what you experienced works for everyone.  This isn't the case. 

If that is the case then how are you sure that "staring" is gonna work for this guy?

I have tought Phasing to many people here and it never fails. I didn't mean that Frank's technique is Wrong or Right. I just put it the way I think it is. Frank is the master and I learned it from him only.

If you remember one of Frank's posts in which Jeff replied? he said that go to sleep and follow your dreams whatever is going to come just keep looking at, and when you say keep looking at that, you don't mean looking by this Physical eye, it shows somewhere in the mind or somewhere else. If you are too much occupied in the mind, you will see it in the mind, If your awareness is somewhere else, you will see it there only.

People normally get confused when they try to see behind their eyelids using their Physical eye. So many people told me that they start feeling strain and they are unable to keep their eye closed.

And the BIG drawback of keeping your mind busy is, even if you reach that focus 10 state somehow, you will get LACK of sleep and if you do it in the night, the side effects of this will start appearing in your daily life.

With my passive way, I have found a way to be in focus 10 state whole night without feeling tired in the morning.

Everyone has unique way of finding their own way and we all keep discovering things and try to make it better and better.

We are here to help each other, I told my way. Rest is up to you if you give it a try or choose other way around.

Regards

[Xanth]

If that is the case then how are you sure that "staring" is gonna work for this guy?

I don't know that it will.  It's actually up to him to find whatever imagery that will work.
In any case, I posted that mostly for you to realize that *your way* isn't the only way.

And if you didn't mean it in that manner, then I apologize.
But some people on this forum need to learn to pass along information without a "matter of fact" kinda of attitude. 

Don't use words like "We" or "Us" when you're referring to something you do personally.
"We do this"
or
"It works for us"

The fact of the matter is that you know for a fact that it only works for you. 

Sorry for nitpicking... but since all we have are typed words, it's important to be as clear as possible to relay the information as clearly as possible.
There's really no room for confusion here.  LoL

As for the lack of sleep thing...
I've never come across that particular issue, which only serves to substantiate my claim that not everyone will experience the same things in the same way.

[faxman]

I get a little bit confuse.

I understand the importance of not expecting anything, just trying to stay aware of anything happening, whatever it is.

But, with phasing, I also thought that I had to be aware of the blackness. Of course, there is no need to look at the blackness with physical eyes but more with internal eyes, like the one everybody uses when day dreaming or before falling asleep. Right ?

Thanks for the clarification.

I tried many time to train on body asleep, mind awake just before sleeping, at night, but is it very difficult. Early in the morning or in the end of the afternoon seems easier...less risks to fall asleep directly.

[omcasey]

Indian,

It happens a bit differently with me, but as a jnani I really like what you had to say.  I am wondering if you wouldn't mind checking in on this thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/wake_induced_experiences_and_phenomena-t31289.0.html, and perhaps commenting if anything comes to you.  I would appreciate your input. 

*******


a video of me relaying my experience of phasing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzkfdASNNC8

[indian]

Of course, there is no need to look at the blackness with physical eyes but more with internal eyes, like the one everybody uses when day dreaming or before falling asleep. Right ?

Yes, you got it.

I tried many time to train on body asleep, mind awake just before sleeping, at night, but is it very difficult. Early in the morning or in the end of the afternoon seems easier...less risks to fall asleep directly.

Yes, If it seems easier at the end of afternoon, then do it that time.

But in the night, tell at least few times to yourself before going into sleep "faxman, you will have to be awake and let the body sleep" and if you keep saying this daily, one day you will be able to maintain your consciousness in the sleep also.

Do NOT force anything on yourself, do it very slowly and very very patiently. It's been so many years since you learn to sleep without any consciousness, now give it at least few years to get back your consciousness wide awake during sleep.

Enjoy Phasing!!

[faxman]

Thanks Indian

[faxman]

I read again Franck's description on phasing and apparently he suggests in one thread to look at the blackness with no expectation, and in another post, to focus inside ourselves.

I will try to look at every change inside my body and mind as definitely, I see no hypnagogic images.

[indian]

I read again Franck's description on phasing and apparently he suggests in one thread to look at the blackness with no expectation, and in another post, to focus inside ourselves.

I will try to look at every change inside my body and mind as definitely, I see no hypnagogic images.

Faxman, the real essence of phasing or any spiritual techniques is "Listen your intuition". And if you see carefully, your inner self will tell you how to do it exactly. For example, take the blackness thing, if you start seeing it, slowly you will realize that you are being guided. You inner self will guide you definitely, you just let it GO.

What we miss is, we never listen our self. If you ask me seriously or ask me to be truthful, I would say there is no technique at all. Just lay down and go to sleep with "awareness".

I can understand that you are following it a kind of process and waiting for hypnagogic images, and if you ask me, I have never seen any Hypnagogic images at all. I just lay down, close my eyes, and deep down inside I see myself awake and aware. And I keep that awareness while I let my body go to sleep. As soon as your body is asleep, the last thing you will notice is "your hearing will be gone completely".  Once your hearing is gone, you will find yourself at the 3d blackness stage and from there you go anywhere you want, or just let it go where it wants to take you.

Don't wait for any images or anything, because I also never saw anything like that or cared about those things. I just lay down and wait things to happen. This is not a process at all, so someone may see images, someone not. someone may hear sounds someone not at all.

Now if you will try to notice that your hearing is gone or not, you will miss it again   Another trick, just for you:

just put your thoughts away from your physical body. Create (imagine) an image or some scenery, or follow that scenery and keep going beyond. Like you follow your own thought? in day dream? just do like that and go away and away from your physical body. Your thoughts will keep coming back to the physical body but keep them away, and soon you will reach a stag of mind awake body asleep. That's it..


Try it and let me know..

Happy phasing!

[faxman]

Thanks again Indian for such a clear explanation.

Have you been able to phase during the day, when your body is fully awake ? That's the best moment I think (no risk of falling asleep) but the counter part is also that your body doesn't want to sleep and hence, phasing seems impossible.

What do you think ?

[indian]

Thanks again Indian for such a clear explanation.

Have you been able to phase during the day, when your body is fully awake ? That's the best moment I think (no risk of falling asleep) but the counter part is also that your body doesn't want to sleep and hence, phasing seems impossible.

What do you think ?

I mostly do it at night, because I am never able to phase when I don't feel "sleepy". My body needs to be tired and sleepy.

But yes, you can do it in daytime if you are able to sleep in daytime. The keynote is, your body needs to be tired and sleepy.

No matter if it is day or night, you will be able to do it. IF I sleep in day time, I do it in daytime too.

Enjoy!

[mcdwg]

I have had a few phasings and to me these have become very simple, I am by no means an expert but in my experience I have found that if I just stare at the blackness when I'm not very tired and keep focused then something will happen. I usually start seeing sparks of lights across the blackness and at that point I know something will happen, usually everything changes to either some sort of screen type vision or a scene.

I will just say that in my experiences I try not to follow a set of guidelines. I just let it happen and so far it has worked for me.