The Second Coming

[Hephaestus]

None of that is remotely in the bible.

[goingslow]

hmmm more war.. more anger and disrespect.?  relative to what?

more than yesterday?  more than during WWII? those are the weakest signs i have ever heard of.  Yeah for those of us whove only lived on this planet the last 20  years it seems theres more disrespect now.  Why such relative signs?  Are we having more war than they did in the 1800's?  Or more war compared to the last 20 years?

I just find really lame signs like that annoying.  Less flies and glowworms??

[MJ-12]

vvdt.

[kakkarot]

auraseer:
"The signs are as follows- less glow worms and flys" WTF?!

"more anger and disrespect" don't remember that.

"more war" yep.

"old pensioners have visions, younger people have more dreams" yep.

"and some other things" and yep again. []


Hephaestus:
"None of that is remotely in the bible". sure it is, the book of Revelations. what the book is talking about EXACTLY is up to complete debate (some think it's talking about the "second coming", some think it described the war that happened around the time the book was written, some think other stuff).


MJ-12:
"Even if some heavenly looking figure comes down from the heavens and says he's Christ, that doesn't mean that he is. My take on it." but it sure would add to his credibility wouldn't it? [|)] . hence the reason we should "test the spirits".


auraseer again:
"Can somebody tell me if ths is real, or is it fake, or can anybody be sure?" faith is the only way to know if something which can't be proven is real or not. also known as insanity, or "personal" beliefs (but then, what beliefs aren't personal?). []

~kakkarot

[MJ-12]

ccc

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by auraseer


Can somebody tell me if ths is real, or is it fake, or can anybody be sure?
Cya,
James.

Unfortunately, I can say for certain that we are on an unsustainable course. Whether that will change at some stage in our "future" I cannot be certain. Though to console ourselves perhaps we ought to consider all the infinite number of "worlds" that will still exist for us to destroy once this one has gone.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

help, not ANOTHER 'second coming' prophesy!?

Am I the only one round here is is sick and tired of these?

These kind of ideas are typical christian apocalyptic mythology from good old revalations, they were very topical for the time they were written, and for the select readership to whom they applied but I wish people would stop tyring to apply them to modernout of context situations, its like people desperatly trying to get a square peg to fit in a round whole!
Maybe it because I'm an ancient historian (so I suppose I've got a bit of Rome bias - aarrgggh! I'm one of the enemy..soon to burn in hell!).
In fact most of the apocalyptic mythology was referring to Rome itslef as it was meant to enourage resistance to Roman rule using this veiled message - Babylon = Rome.. it would be to obvious to incite such rebellious stuff openly.. however this is where the big problem is, becuase it was a veiled message, fervant christians try to apply it to out of context situation, like today.. It might be good to remember that Jesus appears to have preched that the end of the world would occur in the lifetimes of those around him (which it didnt) so bible thumbers should stop whittering on about judgement day and so on 2000 years later!

Also 'goingslow' is correct, the world is no more unstable or more warlike than before, this idea is a complete delusion, promoted mainly by those who want to push their 'war on terror' campaign down everyone's throat... the reality is that we've all had it easy over the past few years, beleive me, if you go back 100, 200 or 2000 years you'll find things much rougher!
Study your history!

Douglas

[Gandalf]

Apologies for the horrific spelling in the above post, but that's what happens when you post when you're half asleep at 1:30AM!

Regards,
Douglas

[kakkarot]

oh! my turn again! []

mj-12:
"I agree that such a person should be tested, but I suspect that most people would just fall to their knees in blind obedience and worship, while anyone who questions would be dismissed or killed as heretics." well, then that is how you will know whether it is the christ or not: the Christ will not kill those who question him; he may rebuke them, but he won't kill them if they are testing him to make sure he really is who he says he is.


frank:
"Though to console ourselves perhaps we ought to consider all the infinite number of "worlds" that will still exist for us to destroy once this one has gone." assuming, of course, that we don't die with the planet (ie, we don't get mass space shuttle transporation before the planet goes kaputs)


gandalf:
"Apologies for the horrific spelling in the above post". there was bad spelling? hm. missed that, guess i'll have to try harder eh? lol

"Am I the only one round here is is sick and tired of these". yep, you are i'm having fun with them. []

"I'm one of the enemy..soon to burn in hell". pfft, . lol just kidding.

actually i tend to agree that revelations was about rome myself, but there are some inconsistancies. for instance, it DOES say in the bible that isreal will loose it's homeland and then, 2000+- years later, will get it back again. isreal was just declared a nation again when? in the past 50 years? after it was destroyed when? when rome destroyed it within 100 years of jesus' death.

the book of revelations was written in a cryptical manner, and i'm afraid that the only ones who will TRULY know what it means are the author and those whom God decides to give this info to. other than that, it is mere speculation and opinion. but of course, my opinion is the right one, so it doesn't matter anyway.  [)] JUST KIDDING! []

~kakkarot [|)]

[travisltk]

So Babylon was code for Rome I have also heard that six, six, six
was code for Nero.

[Gandalf]

Well, its not absolutly confirmed that Babylon = Rome, but it IS the most likely answer. The early christians were a rather radical lot and much of the revelations 'prophesies' may well be veiled messages about trying to bring down Rome.
Interestingly, some recent research has indicated that perhaps the christians DID set fire to Rome in the great fire of 64AD, as recent findings has shown major fires in other Roman cities which seem to date to the same night; the date in question does coincide with an important date in the early christian calender.
So perhaps Nero was justified, as the christians were in effect 'terrorists' from the Roman point of view. In any case Nero was not as bad as he is painted by Holywood, sure he was a bit mad but the allegation made that he set fire to Rome on purpose is discredited in most academic circles today.

The christians were keen to paint the earlier pre-Constantine emperors in a bad light and Nero was good propeganda, the catholic church even calls him the first anti-christ, but this is way over the top as usual! BTW Constantine, who made the empire christian was no saint by a long shot.

Regards,
Douglas

PS I think I've went way of post, wer'nt we talking about the signs of the second coming: THE FIREFLIES! THE FIREFLIES!

[James S]

I wouldn't be too worried about the end times Auraseer. People have interpreting, or more to the point misinterpreting world events as being signs of the end of the world and the second coming for literally centuries

The Bible's book of Revelations where all the "end times" stuff comes from has been probably the most misused, misinterpreted, confused and abused of all religious texts. Basically because nobody really has a frigging clue what the hell the writer was on about. It was written by John, one of the diciples of Jesus while in exile on an island.

Was he recieveing true visions from God that he just didn't know how to translate properly, or was he eating too many funny looking mushrooms?

Whatever the case, like all really good prophecies, you know, the ones that are so confusing you can read just about anything in to them, I'm sure people will be trying to decipher it for many centuries to come.

Then again, if the world does end tomorrow, you have my permission to tell me "I told you so".

Oh, wait... you can't...we'll be dead!![]

James.

[Fat_Turkey]

Pah to Hell with all you and your prophecies. I am honestly getting sick of this. A pack of painkillers a night isn't healthy you know. Funny thing is, this is mostly based on the Christian idea of some big day that all of us will die.

But what is death? Hah I laugh and say simply that the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.

Big doomsday?? Come on get a life. All these big events with Satan being burned et cetera won't happen in a single day, even if at all. It's all symbols and the ideas in revelation are completely open to debate. I believe the end will take some time, maybe a few weeks or so.

All these prophecies are giving me a headache...AGAIN!!! I'm off to bed now...

-FT

[Nate]

What are glow worms anyway? They fireflies or what? I'm confused.

-Nate

[kakkarot]

"I wouldn't be too worried about the end times Auraseer. People have interpreting, or more to the point misinterpreting world events as being signs of the end of the world and the second coming for literally centuries". yep. i find it truly interesting that people will read into ANYTHING something which isn't there AND believe it AND EXPECT OTHERS TO BELIEVE IT!. like my God, is humanity really that stupid?



oh.... ok.

lol, just kidding. (if you didn't get it, the voice bubble was supposed to represent God answering my rhetorical question. [][)][|)])

~kakkarot

[Paukki]

Long ago I read in a bible study handbook that 666 had been interpreted to mean "Lateinos", (might've mispelled that, sorry), or "Latin kingdom."  This was the conclusion by a student of a student of St. John.  Can't remember if Polycarp was the student, with Iraneus being John's student, or t'other way around.  [?]  

Years later whilst sitting in a guardshack with nothing better to do than to listen to the radio, I heard a professor who was touted as an expert on the Dead Sea scrolls.  This professor claimed that the Essenes, (the authors of the scrolls and Jesus's "training ground"), were virulently anti-Roman.  His theory was that the original movement that grew up around Jesus was probably the same way--but they weren't Zealots, (another anti-Roman sect within ancient Judea), in that the Essenes and the earliest Christians saw Rome doomed to be destroyed not by human hands, but God's.  The professor said that the book of Revelations is clearly in the style of the Essenes.  He also touted the theory  [?] that the virulently anti-Roman earliest Christianity was eventually "Hellenized", meaning:  Watered down into a much more peaceful movement that could more easily find acceptance within the Pax Romana of the times.  But that's another topic, right.

There was a time when I was intensely interested in eschatology/literal 2nd coming scenarios.  That interest has long since waned and has been superceded by being drawn to the concept of an evolutionary breakthrough to a higher consciousness, affecting all mankind and the planet and beyond. For the better. []  Try reading "The Isaiah Effect" by Greg Braden.  I enjoyed James Redfield's "The Celestine Prophecy" and "The 10th Insight", also, (although a brother of mine called those "fluff", but he also claimed that Dannion Brinkley, the famous NDE-er,  was "full of bovine excrement and self-serving homilies.") A lot of present day luminaries are talking about reaching a critical mass in terms of human consciousness.  An awakening.  But this is possibly rapture without the fireworks, and bible literalists just won't hear it.   []   I hope that we can make that quantum jump and GROW UP!  []

--Paukki

[bomohwkl]

The second coming? What is the purpose? To save us from our self-made disasters? Crimes, pollutions, wars, poverty and you just name it are widespread. Will he be murdered again?
If there is a second coming while the earth is in such a sitution,we would then passively have allowed ourselves to be helped and that would adversely affect our LEARNING.
Universal law is well-established that if you make a mistake, you pay the penalty –immediately in ten years time or ten centuries, but errors must be paid. Does it sound like 'Karmic law' ?
There is so many misinformation, people just don't see. Arms yourself with Universal laws and intelligence!!

[kakkarot]

karmic LAW?!?! karma is not some punishment tool. why the heck does everyone keep saying it like it is?!?!

karma is more complex than merely "what goes around comes around", but it is rooted in that concept. but even so, you can avoid consequences of stupid actions by seeing the consequences coming and setting up stuff that prevents it from hitting you.

why do you think drug lords get rich and stay rich their entire lives without having some form of "divine retribution" destroying their orginizations and bringing peace and harmony to the people who have had their lives destroyed by drugs?

and why does it take so long for "karma" to get back to you sometimes? perhaps it's merely coincidence being dressed up in the same way that religion dresses up coincidences by trying to say that it happened because of God.

(sorry, but i have to blow off some steam about the whole misuse of karma.)

~kakkarot

[x_wolf19]

Frankly I would agree with alot of the posts above..I Am SICK of all of this war questioning as well.  I am sick of hearing about all of this.  I am young and want to live my life in hapiness and not worry of such things.  If they do happen, ok.  I will go by what I believe and what I know.  If not in my lifetime, then I am just fine and dandy with that!  I WANT TO LIVE MY LIFE IN HAPINESS WITHOUT WORRYINGA BOUT THIS STUFF.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I think thats a damn good idea!

[the_demigod]

this war and the 2nd Comign ain't got anything in common--unless Jesus2 is watching CNN and biding his time to emerge at an appropriate [media-wise] time.
The War CAN end in planetary disaster, but Jesus2 ain't coming--we'd eat him alive, and he'd suffer a fate WORSE than Jesus1--we'd LAUGH him outta the door.

Death by your own people of global ridicule--choose the worse fate.

[goingslow]

xwolf person:
Ignorance is bliss but i dont think its something we should strive for.

Theres a thin line between chosing to keep out the bad and being completely apathetic to whats happening in the world.  The reason I dont want to hear about the war is due to the opinions.  Right/vs wrong which causes division and anger.  But to chose to pretend there is nothing negative out there in order to live a happy life doesn't seem to be an answer to anything.

I dont want to be ignorant and oblivious.  It may make me happy, but where's the growth?

[kakkarot]

well, that's a good point the_demigod except that the Christ has the power of God behind Him. the reason he was able to be crucified the first time was because he let it happen (if he had so wanted he could have called upon "ten legions of angels" to save him from such a fate).

ignorance is bliss... until you get hit by the truck you didn't notice: then ignorance is painful... but then they give you morphine so i guess ignorance really IS bliss []

"I WANT TO LIVE MY LIFE IN HAPINESS WITHOUT WORRYINGA BOUT THIS STUFF." choose what you wish to worry about, and either deal with or ignore the rest.

~kakkarot

[Nightfall]

quote:Originally posted by auraseer

Lots of people have emailed my telling me about 'the second coming'. It is the second visit of Jesus.

What would you like to know about it?

One thing to note, the book is the book of REVELATION, singular, not plural. If someone refers to it as revelationS then you can know that they have not read the book. Because the first five words say "The Revelation of Jesus Christ".

The book is about one person and one event, the unveiling, or REVELATION of Jesus.

Second thing to note, Jesus is not coming to "visit".

Let me know if you have specific questions and I'll tell you all about it. I love the book! Most people don't understand it because 1) they haven't studied the old testament, and 2) they don't know how to read it. It doesn't take any special skills to read it, but it does take and deserve, careful reading.

[]

[Gandalf]

Oh dear......
Can we just forget about the book of RevalationSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


We don't actually need another 'expert' who claims to 'know how to read it'.
in my opinion this part of the bible (hell, the whole thing!) should be recycled as toilet roll!

Don't get me wrong, Im not a materialist in any sense, but from what little I have learned from my small amount of experience, here and through my experience in the astral world, these texts are simply muddled, unclear and have very little actual truth in them (this tends to be the case with all mainstream religions IMO). You are better advised to go out and find things out for yourself.
However, this is exactly what hardcore followers of mainstream religions DONT want you to do, and a great reason why you should forget about these writings, which belong to a different era (they were very topical for when they were written) and move on, otherwise you will always be weighed down by these texts, leading to nothing but grief. I'm glad I dont live in somewhere like Israel/Palestine where we see the fruits of mainstream religion where both sides have the 'truth' as they see it.

I'm a Roman historian, did you know that a few frends of mine who are ancient historians wanted to organise archaeological projects in Israel and were refused? The Israeli government said they only authorise what they call religious historians/archaeologists.
They are afraid that we might dig up or discover something which is contrary to their beliefs.


Regards,
Douglas

[auraseer]

Hi,
Lots of people have emailed my telling me about 'the second coming'. It is the second visit of Jesus. He is supposed to be coming with 2 books - one bad and good (long names have forgotten). He will burn the devil in hell, and do some other stuff which I have forgotten. The rightous people will return with Jesus to heaven, or something.

The signs are as follows- less glow worms and flys (apparent now), more anger and disrespect (apparent now), more war (apparent now), old pensioners have visions, younger people have more dreams, and some other things.

Can somebody tell me if ths is real, or is it fake, or can anybody be sure?

Cya,
James.