Lucid dream or Astral Projection?

[The_One]

 I was reading Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics, and he mentioned Lucid dreams tend to be more real that Astral Projections. This confused me a bit, as now I think that my Astral projections are just lucid dreams. I've ended up in Etheric, but try to get into Astra asap, but it seems that Robert Bruce believes that this is just a projection into a dream.
Though other books I've read say that projections into Astral tends to be more real than real life, but are these just Lucid dreams?
What are your thoughts on this matter?

[jub jub]

The Etheric to me, tends to be a little dingy with the surroundings looking like every day life. The Astral on the other hand is more vibrant with richer and brighter colors. There are different levels but I have only experienced the two so that is all I can comment on.

I really don't know if there is any difference between LD and the Astral. I think it's two names for the same thing.

[Psilibus]

The_One -

This is a great question for someone starting out. It is also a great question for an adept. My experience allows me to know the difference now but it took some time for me to be convinced. I never doubted my experiences as being "real". I had to expand my definition of what  "real" IS.
The Astral "feels real". There is some sort of atmosphere that is tangible. In the Astral you get the feeling you are part of something that is not in your control. In the Etheric environment there is a greater sense of control of what is happening around you. I wouldn't call it "dingy", per se, but it does not have the sense of LIFE that the Astral "realm" provides. It is ALL "real" but I think it is how you can perceive it that makes a difference.

Did I make sense? Been up toooo long.

[Xanth]

I was reading Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics, and he mentioned Lucid dreams tend to be more real that Astral Projections. This confused me a bit, as now I think that my Astral projections are just lucid dreams. I've ended up in Etheric, but try to get into Astra asap, but it seems that Robert Bruce believes that this is just a projection into a dream.
Though other books I've read say that projections into Astral tends to be more real than real life, but are these just Lucid dreams?
What are your thoughts on this matter?

My opinion is that Dreams, Lucid Dreams and Astral Projections are all the same thing that take place in the same area.
The only difference between them is how consciously aware you are at the time.
Nothing more.

So to ask "was this a LD or an AP" is kind of a redundant question...
You should be asking "how consciously aware was I?".

~Ryan

[Psilibus]

Xanth answered his own question. LOL.

[The_One]

 I agree with Jub Jub, Etheric is a dark, dingy place. I was there and wanted to leave the bedroom, I pushed the wall that turned into a "door way"? I seen a light and moved towards it. I ended up in a forest on a bank next to a river.
It was mind blowing how really every thing was. I touched a small tree, and some of the dew fell off on to my arm. I could feel the coldness of the water as it splashed on me. I could hear birds singing and the smell and sounds of the forest. It was quite over whelming. But I was disappointed when I read that bit from Robert Bruce.

[jub jub]

If I spend any time in the Etheric, it leaves me drained the next day. I've never been able to figure out why that is. Also, I tend to run into "characters" there. 

[Psilibus]

Why does the etheric leave you drained? I would want an answer to that. I feel energized. Like I have been to the moon or to someplace new. It never gets old. It is always a challenge of will and imagination to hold myself there and appreciate the manipulations I can manage. What exactly is it you do there that leaves you "drained"? There is energy to feed off of there. There is energy to create for yourself. It does not "drain". It is YOU. Why would you drain you?

[CFTraveler]

I have to say, that does not happen to me either.  The only time I feel drained is if I have multiple projections in one sitting, and this is not often enough to be a problem.

[Yin]

Why would you drain you?

you're a suicidal cannibal? other than that.. I'm at a loss~!

[jub jub]

I don't know why I feel drained. Maybe it's because going OBE drains energy. 

There have been times when I don't feel drained but not very often. BTW, I'm 55. Maybe that has something to do with it. 

[personalreality]

I think RB is a little full of it sometimes.

I really think he struggled to complete some areas of his research that weren't complete in order to have a well rounded book.

Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic researcher and his book is wonderful.

But he's not the Astral God.  Aside from picking and choosing content from ancient traditions, i think he may have also just pulled some stuff out of his bum for lack of a better option.  Just keep that in mind.

[The_One]

 Thanks for that opinion Personal, you could imagine how gutted I was when I read that bit. I believe I was in Astral. But just to clarify, is the Astral way diffrent to the physical area I'm in? I don't think I've heard any one explain what it looks like.
I've also felt drained after being in Etheric, and waking up in the morning.

[personalreality]

I also wouldn't cling so tightly to his diagram of the astral, etheric, etc.

I think Frank's description is more appropriate.

In my view, Dreaming, LD and AP all happen in the "non-physical".

An etheric or RTZ projection is a physical projection.  It is essentially raising the frequency of the energy body and shifting up in physical dimension.  It takes more energy to do this so it would make sense that you feel more wiped out.

AP is relatively easy by comparison because it's much more natural and it's something we do all the time anyway.  It comes more easily and takes less energy.  But AP made me feel wiped out when I first started, until i built up my energy body.

[The_One]

 SO what does the Astral look like to you? I'm very intrested to know what people see in the Astral.

[Xanth]

SO what does the Astral look like to you? I'm very intrested to know what people see in the Astral.

Look around you right now.
That is what the Astral looks like.

~Ryan

[Mustardseed]

Since you are asking for opinions here is mine. The difference is in a way that in an LD you travel inward into a place that has the potential to become an astral area, but is entirely made up by your own subconsious activity. In an AP you go to places made up by other people entities groups of people or whatever. The general feel of the place is similar and perhaps stronger in a LD. Mostly these experiences are combined with false awakenings as well. I have had this "problem" for many years but have come to believe that an LD is actually more useful for personal growth and a dandy experience that is a stepping stone for further exploration.

You should try to learn to transit from the selfcreated LD area to the wider AP areas. People use a variety of ways to do this. Some fall backwards and wake up beside their body, that does not work for me I just keep falling.

What I do is mentally go back to sleep and visualise a second room, garden or area whereever you are, and then as I awake I find myself in the wider Astral dimension. So it sounds crazy and it is hard to do. The sheer exhilaration of having a LD makes it hard.

If you want to try then just assume  position you normally do in trying to project and try to project Phase or whatever you chose to call it, and you might find that the LD acts a s a spring board above a pool to propell you further and faster than you expect.

Just my 2 cents

Good luck
Regards Mustardseed

[Xanth]

Since you are asking for opinions here is mine. The difference is in a way that in an LD you travel inward into a place that has the potential to become an astral area, but is entirely made up by your own subconsious activity.

For the sake of personal definitions, I'd label that, explicitly, as what people consider the "Astral Planes".

In an AP you go to places made up by other people entities groups of people or whatever.

Again, for the sake of terms... I label this area as being BEYOND the "Astral Planes", and is what I like to call the Collective Consciousness Areas, or in a more Monroe/Kepple way, the Transition Areas.

~Ryan

[The_One]

 Ok, so where the hell was I in the description I gave? Is the Astral my own personal area?

[Xanth]

Ok, so where the hell was I in the description I gave? Is the Astral my own personal area?

In my opinion, yes.  What people freely call the "Astral" is your own personal area... also called the "subconscious".
However, when you project and you find yourself in your bedroom or another "real life" location... that's what people call an "Etheric Projection".

I hope that wasn't too confusing.

~Ryan 

[The_One]

 That makes more sense. I've had many, many lucid dreams, but that experience was totally diffrent.
So are you saying the Mental plane is a collective consciousness area?

[Mustardseed]

That makes more sense. I've had many, many lucid dreams, but that experience was totally diffrent.
So are you saying the Mental plane is a collective consciousness area?

There are 2 main schools of thought, one is Franks scientifical approach of Phazing, the other is the Mystic such as Robert Bruce, this later model operates with seperate locations. What the actual fact is, ...well that is anyones guess

[Xanth]

That makes more sense. I've had many, many lucid dreams, but that experience was totally diffrent.
So are you saying the Mental plane is a collective consciousness area?

If you're equating the Focus 24 - 27 as the "Mental" plane, then yes.

I don't like those old world terms... Etheric, Astral, Mental... they make me go eww. 

~Ryan

[personalreality]

they make me go mmMMmm

[The_One]

 Ok, that makes better sense to me.