Human brains lack of comprhension?

[Fourthdimension]

OK..... I have decided to write about this or ask you all for your thoughts / ideas on this subject but i find it hard expressing ideas like this because ..... well i dont know i just do lol.

Anyways here we go.......

Often i project and in my projection the thoughts pondered and activitys in which i participate in at the time i am able to understand.... I ask alot of questions and in the astral when i contemplate a specefic concept i understand it fully and go through each step as of why and how so i am 100 percent sure i understand.

Then When i get back to my physical body these concepts and thoughts become incomprehnsive to my physical self. I wonder how and why i could conclude such conclusions in which make no sense to my physical self..... The steps of why and how i took to fully understand it become nothing more than non sense here on the physcial oplane to my pysical self.

When this happens my brain does nt relay back the information from the astral instead it just interprets it as a lack of consiousness an elapse in memory or awareness as if i was not consious at the time of this. I think that my brain does this because it cannot interpret the ideas and concepts proposed in the astral

so basically what i am asking is......

Do you think that some concepts or activitys in the astral understood by our minds may not be able to be interpretted by our brains... is there concepts that opur physical brains lack the development need to understand concepts greater than our selfs or outside of our belief systems?

I am sorry for this badly written post i found it difficult to express to you all what i meant so i understand if you dont understand what is written because sometimes i find it hard placing my ideas into the restriction of words.

I hope you all understand what i mean and hope for some feed back
take care

[Xanth]

I think that projection-recall has a direct link to how consciously aware you were during the projection in question.
If you're having issues comprehending what it was you were Projecting about, I'd suggest you weren't as consciously aware as you could be.

~Ryan

[AstralBeginnings]

I personally think you may be correct.  I have no personal experience of this but I think things are not comprehensible to our brains - things like infinity for example, however I dont think we will have trouble grasping this when we die.

[personalreality]

from experience of other revelatory moments, it's damned near impossible to really comprehend the infinity of some things.

this is why i think perceptual feeling is so important.  that's how you perceive the infinite, through feeling.  you can feel it and recognize the feeling, you just can't rationalize it. 

[Xanth]

I personally think you may be correct.  I have no personal experience of this but I think things are not comprehensible to our brains - things like infinity for example, however I dont think we will have trouble grasping this when we die.

In my opinion, anything you see on the astral *has* to be comprehensible to your mind... because that's the source of it.
As for "infinite"... I don't quite understand what you mean, I have zero issues comprehending something infinite.  But, I guess, that just might be me.

~Ryan 

[Fourthdimension]

Thanks guys. Xanth you say every thing has to be comprhendible to the mind and i agree but not everything has to be comprehnsible to the brain. xanth imagine nothing. ..... nothing cant be a colour or an object or even briefly imagined because then it becomes an idea or concept and becomes something.  so then how can you percive nothingness when as soon as you grasp the idea it then becomes something. This is the sort of comprhension that i am talking about sometimes our brains cant facillitate for concepts percieved out of body.

also whilst i am replying i ll just add another thought. I think thought is a language of its opwn because you can express anything to oneself in thought ut when trying to interpret that delicate limitless language to limited words lots of idea and factors get lost in the interpretation because of lack of words to interpret.

thanks

[Xanth]

Thanks guys. Xanth you say every thing has to be comprhendible to the mind and i agree but not everything has to be comprehnsible to the brain.

In my opinion, my "brain" isn't me.  My brain doesn't do any of the "understanding" or "comprehending"... I do.  My brain only functions to control this meat popsicle around me.

xanth imagine nothing. ..... nothing cant be a colour or an object or even briefly imagined because then it becomes an idea or concept and becomes something.  so then how can you percive nothingness when as soon as you grasp the idea it then becomes something. This is the sort of comprhension that i am talking about sometimes our brains cant facillitate for concepts percieved out of body.

I don't understand what you mean... I can imagine "nothing" just fine.
I can comprehend "nothing".  I can't explain it to other people... but the concept of "nothing" works fine for me.

So yeah, what I can't understand is your question there. 

~Ryan

[personalreality]

And that's the point.

You can comprehend it perfectly.  What you're unable to do is transpose that understanding into human language which makes it seem like it's beyond human comprehension.  Because admit it or not, the foundation of most of our belief about reality is based in human interaction and physical existence.

[Stookie]

You can build up concepts regarding infinity, but those concepts are not it.

Anyways, I think many of our out-of-body experiences are for non-physical living, something that we either take into our subconscious and/or is meant for future non-physical experience/growth. It may not always be physically applicable.

[Xanth]

I can definitely agree with those. 

~Ryan

[Fourthdimension]

I ll explain what i cant explain in description ..... every time i use to project i would end up in a local i could describe such as ... house , tree, boiy , girl, food but now i end up places i cant describe for instance my last projection i will try to explain the back ground as best as possible. it was like been in total blackness yet the blackness is actually something each shade is something diffrent and some shades i would have to move around because i could nt pass through.
In this i have no body what so ever that i have noticed i am just consiousness and usally i discuss things with someone there and when i am there it all makes sense it actually seems enlightening whilst there as if oh..... thats what the answer is how did nt i think of that..... but When i wake up in my physical i either cant remember the conversation or it does nt make sense at all.

I have thought mabye the blackness is lack of vision as if i had my eyes closed cause i always use to have that problem but my friend i have been talking to does nt seem to think thats the cause of it that the place is actually more abstract .

Not sure anyways lol

[pondini]

marilynn hughes talked about your dilemma in a C2C interview. IIRC, she said that each level you occupy has different logic, and as you make your way closer to the 'source' the logic structure changes. sometimes the logic even contradicts the logic from the previous level.

as for nothingness and infinity, i was told a brain-teaser, of sorts, when i was 11 or 12 years old that went something like this: how far does the universe extend? and what is at the edge, nothingness? or is there a wall? and if there is a wall, what lies beyond it... nothingness?

this was so staggering to my young mind that i actually felt slightly stoned -no joke. it was a day or two later that i came to the conclusion that everything can only be a 'thought'.

[Fourthdimension]

lol thanks pondini who is marlyn huges lol. what do you mean about the logic ? i dont understand what you mean. how does it contradict itself ?

thanks pon

[pondini]

lol thanks pondini who is marlyn huges

here's her website. she astral projects every night. all her books are freely downloadable from her site, you don't need to register, just click the PDF downloads.

what do you mean about the logic ? i dont understand what you mean. how does it contradict itself ?

she didn't go into details, sorry.

if you are interested you can hear some of her radio-interview 'highlights' HERE and HERE. in order to download/listen to the full 4 hour interviews you must pay to join coast to coast's 'streamlink' feature. it's one or two dollars for the first month trial, but you can download any show from the last 3 years during that time. there are some awesome interviews there! if you join be sure to download the william buhlman interviews, as well as bernard haisch, thomas campbell -author of 'my big toe'- Robert Lanza, and robert monroe. if you don't join, maybe i can upload them to rapidshare...

best of luck.

[pondini]

something just occurred to me.... when you guys are projected and talking to beings or understanding new logic, does our typical physical logic seem flawed or nonsensical? if so, that might point to logic or knowledge being fundamentally different in each realm...?

[Xanth]

something just occurred to me.... when you guys are projected and talking to beings or understanding new logic, does our typical physical logic seem flawed or nonsensical? if so, that might point to logic or knowledge being fundamentally different in each realm...?

What you are Here is the same compared to how you are There.
There's no fundamental change in consciousness when you switch your focus of awareness.

~Ryan

[pondini]

ok. thank you, Xanth

[Fourthdimension]

lol

[T.L.]

Often i project and in my projection the thoughts pondered and activitys in which i participate in at the time i am able to understand.... I ask alot of questions and in the astral when i contemplate a specefic concept i understand it fully and go through each step as of why and how so i am 100 percent sure i understand.

Then When i get back to my physical body these concepts and thoughts become incomprehnsive to my physical self.

That only happens to me during normal sleep/dreams. There will be some concept in my dreams I finally grasp that in it holds the answer to almost everything... then when I come to I do not understand it any longer. However in my out of body experiences/projections this doesn't happen, but then again how hard is it to comprehend roaming around weird environments, talking to the deceased, and trying to find my own path. The only thing I am amazed about is that I still understand life. I know the feeling though about having grasped the truth, but only to have it slip through my fingers like sand once I awake. This only comes with dreams for me though.

[personalreality]

logic is flawed everywhere.

logic is based in mind.

you are not mind.

you are consciousness.

[Fourthdimension]

How wud u divine consiousness pr?

Hey tl long time since we spoke.... Hows your galantamine thing going? after a few weeks of using valerian and choline ect i decided to discontinue there use because they were more a hinderance than an aide but i have something i ll hopefully experience tomorrow for the first time and i ll let you know how it goes if my mate soesnt let me down and fail to deliver haha but its something i been wanting for almost 2 years haha.

My dreams on the other hand that sureal there more depictions of my thoughts feelings questions and answers rather than anything mystical barr a few.
My projection also are nt even that special but there fun

but the thing in between projection sleeping and waking the stage where there is nothing but mmmmm for a better word just consiusness thats when things get really crazy for me and there the ones i enjoy the most

tl you should go on the astral pulse chat there is quite a few of us there
at some point xanth n pr will b online and yin comes online to and also noy and theres a few others who dont talk much if at all

[personalreality]

i'm online now.

consciousness is ineffable.  when i use that word i mean 'I'.

[T.L.]

if my mate soesnt let me down and fail to deliver haha but its something i been wanting for almost 2 years haha.

My dreams on the other hand that sureal there more depictions of my thoughts feelings questions and answers rather than anything mystical barr a few.
My projection also are nt even that special but there fun

but the thing in between projection sleeping and waking the stage where there is nothing but mmmmm for a better word just consiusness thats when things get really crazy for me and there the ones i enjoy the most

tl you should go on the astral pulse chat there is quite a few of us there
at some point xanth n pr will b online and yin comes online to and also noy and theres a few others who dont talk much if at all

Are we talking DMT? I've been interested in that since I read Strassman's book about it. I'm not interested in everything that causes an obe for instance like Salvia. My interest in DMT really is that is causes all the precursors to the out of body state as well, not just the experience. A smaller amount will cause the person to go through all stages/precursors before they hit the out of body state. Im not interested in a dose that will cause me to go obe automatically. More interested in have so small a dose that it will only cause the vibration state to kick in for a prolonged time to have more controlled experiments. Obviously it's not a huge deal because with the right amount of time I can do it naturally but the idea is to really cut to the heart of the cause, the conditions needed and the natural chemicals that are in the body that need to be there and what amounts to have the experience. After all these years of projecting I still haven't found the answer. A lot of the times I can, and there are some times when no matter what I can not. It would be nice to have those answers.

As far as the Galantamine goes, I wanted to know if it really does work and if it is safe, and if so what side effects. I have answered all these questions through my experiments. Yes it does work as long as you have control, and even then sometimes causes you to lose control... ie. ending up in random places (which already happens to me anyway) and sometimes becoming stuck in a lucid dream instead of an actual projection. These things are really not that bad, because a lucid dream can be just as beneficial anyway. If you are too tired you will most likely end up in a lucid dream as you really do need a mental grasp on the situation. It will prolong the experience when you do succeed, and it makes it easier to succeed. Also if you are too awake well you will find a hard time relaxing enough as it does act as a stimulant. As far as the side effects go perhaps a time or two I have found my heart rate accelerated, once again nothing to be concerned about unless you have a serious heart condition. I have irregular heart beats already and had no problems. You would have to be a heart attack survivor to have to worry about it. I will still use it once in a great while if I am having a dry spell, and if I have time to set aside to rest just enough then wake up, then take it and lay back down... time consuming if you are working 7 days a week like I have been the past two months. Luckily Im getting two days a week off now so perhaps Ill try it again soon if I am running low on experiences, which I'm not right now.

Sometimes my experiences range from the mundane, roaming around my place and just taking mental notes. To ending up in places that are very interesting and hard to define in words. Like this one place that reflected light brilliantly in all colours, the entire place looked like it was made of crystal, and there were waterfalls everywhere. It was the oddest but most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Sure Ill drop in the chat from time to time.

[personalreality]

I"ve been told before that Galantamine is not good to use for OBE.

DMT is a natural chemical produced by the pineal gland.  I've often wondered if your brain produces more of it when you project.  I have searched for any information regarding it, but with no luck.

I"ve read before that there are two large bursts of DMT into the body.  Once sometime in the womb and once near death.

Makes you wonder if our physical life is just a hallucination.....

[T.L.]

Personal reality, galantamine is great for projection/obe. I read a lot of conflicting stuff about it which is what interested me in it. A lot of the information I read on it was from people new to projection. I thought it was a great idea to have someone that was already great at projecting to try it so why not use myself heh. It is really strong as well, the first time I ended up in a lucid dream and I couldn't snap myself out of it. The next few tries it forced me out of body with a quickness no need to focus on exit techniques. As far as information on dmt read "DMT: the spirit molecule" by Rick strassman.

It's an excellent read. From observations and the first hand accounts in that book I came to the conclusion that a major necessity to projection is the release of a small amount of dmt followed by the vibrations for most and for others a quick exit with out vibrations. I think the difference is the amount of dmt released would vary person to person if more was released a person would bypass the vibration stage. I look at dmt as a vehicle to the obe state, one that acts as some kind of conduit for your consciousness to bypass normal constraints on the mind.