The true costs of war

[Nerezza]

I agree that not all thoughts should be centered on the present. It leaves room for inconsistency and carelessness to make it's way into 'the plan', whatever that may be. I just don't want to dwell to long on it.

It kinda makes me wonder about your past history and the future incarnations you have yet to endure.


I've spent my time trying to find out who I am right now, and someday I may need to find out(after sometime researching reincarnation that is), what past lives I may of had. I've always thought though that no matter how mundane life may be at the moment, when it's all said and done, it would make a great movie. Oh well, we will see.

[Nerezza]

And by the way, just incase in gets on people nerves.

The way I respond to posts is usually like this:

Your Paragraph/Sentence

My Paragraph/Sentence

I've been told that this annoys people but the only reason I do it is because it's easier for me to read and respond without having to scroll the screen down. If this doesn't bother you, it hasn't annoyed you....yet.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Nerezza

I've spent my time trying to find out who I am right now, and someday I may need to find out(after sometime researching reincarnation that is), what past lives I may of had. I've always thought though that no matter how mundane life may be at the moment, when it's all said and done, it would make a great movie. Oh well, we will see.

That's a nice response which I feel will always stand you in good stead. Here's wishing you the best of luck.

Yours,
Frank

[BDHugh]

Hi Timeless,

Right now, a majority (I believe 2/3) of Iranians are under 30 and do not represent the current leadership in that country. They are in fact mainly pro-American which I believe is because of our culture. They have tried very hard to communicate with the American government. I have seen documentaries in which for most of those people it is popular to watch MTV, popular films, and shop for designer clothing over the internet. This does not sound very much like a strong fundamentalist Muslim population.

[Anonymous]

As angry as I am at all the terrible things our government has done and is doing to both its own people and other people of the world, I am relieved that at least there are people in the government who are trying to make a positive difference. Do you think for one minute Bush believes in astral projection? Quite unlikely. He's not a very good example in my opinion- not because of this fact, but because I feel that he's not doing his best with the knowledge that he has. However, I will say that I am somewhat relieved the war has started, in a strange way. It's like a blister that has just popped. It was bound to happen eventually, and it has. So far it seems like there is minimal loss of life. I hope it stays that way throughout the end.

I don't know why the heck I am up right now, I should be waking up in 5- well, almost 4 now- hours to get ready for class. I guess something is just on my mind. I think it's the fact that I worry too much. I had an extremely peaceful feeling- and then I got really thirsty, so I got a drink and that's why I'm up. For a bit, I felt a great pressure on my chest but I was able to push it off. Some say this is the demon Mare, but I didn't sense any presence, it was more like a big rock on my chest. I probably could've used this to get into OBE state, which I've been trying to do for so long now. What are the odds of it happening by accident?

Anyway, I should do some research myself into my past lives. I know nothing about them and I am really getting to the point now where I need to find out what purpose I was (re)incarnated for.

[Chance]

quote:Originally posted by Frank


Ultimately, I detect more of the kind of seething anger that demolished your twin-towers may well be the order of the day for a while yet.

We will wait and see.

Frank,

I must say that I have observed similar thoughts from you over and over again.  It, and correct me if I am wrong, almost seems as if you are wishing this upon America.  You have stated that you detect seething anger.  No offense, but from all that I have read from you, there seems to be some seething anger coming from yourself.  Perhaps that is why it is so easily and readily detected?  Just a thought...I could be way off base and apologize thusly if so...

Let me remind you that the people killed in the Trade Center that day were from almost, if not, every country in the World, including Great Britain.  Anytime a disaster of this sort befalls the US, it befalls the WORLD.  We are the melting pot.  And regardless of the pitfalls that we find ourselves trying to avoid, America is the Greatest Host in the entire WORLD.  And before you or Adrian try to ream me about how hard it is to attain citizenship, let me point out that our country takes in people who are being oppressed, tortured and killed from more countries in this World than you can shake a stick at.

The IDEALS of America are what America is about...Not the bastardizations of our ideals committed by our government and corporate leaders.  

Adrian,

I know this is old stuff I am rehashing here but I couldn't let it rest.  Mostly because I believe once past your righteous anger you will process what I have to share.

quote:Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings,

quote:Originally posted by MJ-12
The phrase "I was only following orders" is meaningless. If your military drops a cruise missle in an unjust war on some Iraqi family then that's a war crime.

This is very important. We are advised from the higher spheres that "following orders" is no excuse for hostility, or worse still killing of brothers and sisters of mankind. The Karmic consequences exist and will have to be paid either in this lifetime or a future one.

Again, people are only ordered to do these things because they used their own freewill to join the military and knowingly place themselves in that situation. It is a conscious act, where the likely consequences are known.

Defending "what is right" is totally erroneous in accordance with Universal laws. Only the Divine Providence, being perfection, knows what is right, and temporal interests in all eternity are not right.

If you kill, or are a party to killing, the price will have to be paid. If all humanity knew and understood these truths, along with all truths, and the significance of progression, the world would bethe peaceful, place it was intended to be - the biblical "heaven on earth" which mankind is here to build.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Adrian,
Has the higher spheres spoken to you about the Transmutive qualities of the VIOLET FLAME?  Have you heard of Saint Germain?  Is it within you to attempt to use your SPIRIT to assist in Transmuting past/present and future Karma for the GOOD of the UNIVERSE as well as TERRA?  It is what we should all be doing.  Instead of acting like a bunch of hellfire and brimstone preachers, perhaps our best course of action is to ask SPIRIT to allow us to embody forgiveness and call upon the VIOLET FLAME/RAY to help transmute KARMA, rather than preaching retribution!

http://thevioletflame.tripod.com/

Wonderful meditation/music...http://www.crystalinks.com/medmusicvf.html

About Saint Germain...http://www.tsl.org/masters/stgermain/sg_set.asp

I share this with you Adrian, not to criticize your take on the war and actions of the participants.  I share it in the hopes that you will be able to help embody and ground the Violet Ray here on Earth so we can begin to move from a place of anger and blame to a place of forgiveness and love for all the souls of the World...Regardless of the uniform they wear or country they hail from...Let's face it, we all hail from the same source...May we all remember that...

P.S.  I will be performing my own version of the Violet Ray Meditation every day around noon Pacific Coast (AMERICA) time.   I invite all souls who read this or will share it, to do the same whenever they can find the time.  I, too, wish to live in Heaven on Earth and will do whatever I can to fulfill that appointment.

CHEERS!

[clandestino]

Frank (and others who are interested of course),

next month Al jazeera launch the English version of their internet news site....Should be an interesting read. I think that it is being launched with the BBC's help, not entirely sure though...

Al jazeera yesterday broadcast interviews with members of the 51st division (they are the ones who "surrendered" the other day). Either the US army are lying, or the Iraqi's are at it again....who knows.

And I had to laugh when George Bush stood up in front of the world talking about the Geneva Convention !! "treat our prisoners humanely, blah blah blah....". I agree completely with him - So why has he violated the Geneva convention by holding prisoners indefinitely at "camp x-ray", humiliating them before the world by parading them before cameras, and denying them access to legal rights ??!!!

Of course, Bush and his merry band of lawyers would no doubt object, saying that the location in Cuba is exempt from the convention. Hmmm.

As you can see, my attitude towards this "war" hasn't changed.
1) there is no evidence of weapons of mass destruction; the weapons inspectors weren't allowed to finish their job.
2) there is no backing for this war in the international community - besides the usual "ums" and "ahhs" from 40 odd countries, only 4 or 5 nations have commited troops to the cause.
3) The double-standards set by the US are, as usual, open for all to see. Will the "coalition" attack n. Korea ? or China  even ? Both of whom fit the same bill as Iraq. I have a feeling that they won't - perhaps because they'd get beaten.

This war is a turning point in world opinion of the united states, not just my opinion. I've got no qualms with american people - just american foreign policy.

mark

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Chance
Frank,
I must say that I have observed similar thoughts from you over and over again.  It, and correct me if I am wrong, almost seems as if you are wishing this upon America.

Me, lord no. I would not wish harm on anyone. It would just come right back at me and obstruct my development.

I do note, however, as I have posted about several times, there are seemingly ever-increasing numbers of people in this world who DO wish harm on America: as the space in New York where two huge buildings used to sit, amply demonstrates.

quote:
You have stated that you detect seething anger.  No offense, but from all that I have read from you, there seems to be some seething anger coming from yourself.  Perhaps that is why it is so easily and readily detected?

Amateur psychotherapy aside: I think it is plain not just to me, but for most normal people to detect: it must surely be obvious the destruction of those two buildings (and a large slice of the Pentagon building) could not have been planned and performed out of love for the American people.

quote:
Anytime a disaster of this sort befalls the US, it befalls the WORLD.

Since when has a disaster of this sort ever befallen the US?

Naturally, I do not agree with their motives, but wasn't the whole plan of the "terrorists" ultimately to cause America to suffer (for the first time) some kind of inkling of the collective-suffering people in the world have had to endure the past 3 or 4 decades as a result of American foreign policy?

Another thing perhaps you should remind yourself is that the American population is but a tiny minority of people in that region you call: The World. Okay, you may well consume over 70% of the world's energy and produce around 50% of the world's solid waste. But you are a tiny minority, nonetheless.

quote:
We are the melting pot.  And regardless of the pitfalls that we find ourselves trying to avoid, America is the Greatest Host in the entire WORLD.  And before you or Adrian try to ream me about how hard it is to attain citizenship, let me point out that our country takes in people who are being oppressed, tortured and killed from more countries in this World than you can shake a stick at.

Okay, let's compare figures as a percentage of population. We had around 130,000 asylum-seekers enter Britain last year.

quote:
The IDEALS of America are what America is about...Not the bastardizations of our ideals committed by our government and corporate leaders.  

Yep, we all know what modern-day America is about. It doesn't take all that much brainpower. Like I say, if Iraq's primary export potential were carrots... then no-one in the USA would give a stuff.

Yours,
Frank

[TheSeeker]

When citizens of one country start pointing fingers at citizens of another country, it is then that we have been manipulated.  All of the propaganda, etc., is generated for this exact point, for us to argue with each other and hate and or kill each other.

[BDHugh]

Hi Timeless.

quote:Originally posted by timeless

Well, when a dictatorship feels threatened it often is more likely to lash out quickly than wait.  It is more likely to take matters into its own hands as fast as possible before revolution is even a consideration.  

Okay, I understand what you meant now. I think though that when Iraq makes a complete transformation, other Arab countries will follow and their governments will most likely try to exercise what you are saying.

[Jenadots]

Maybe this is a little bit catty [], but we are getting reports that on Day 1 of Al Jezeera's English broadcast, they have already been "hacked" by American hackers.  The story did make me laugh as they do try to present themselves as an unbiased source of information.  

I would like to see some of their broadcasts for another point of view, but would be even more skeptical of their stories than I am of CNN or Fox News.  

As to the real cost of the war -- I have no doubt that our American and British grandchildren will be paying off the war and rebuilding debts.  And no doubt, that some Iraqi's will hate us for the rest of their lives.  Terrorists will use this as an excuse to attack and the many Iraqi sub groups will use it as an excuse to attack each other.

Much depends on what the Iraqi National Conference is able to accomplish in the way of its proposed constitution after the war is over.  Hopefully, whatever government is finally established, it will not be another dictatorship but one that will share all that oil wealth with the millions of very poor Iraqi people who have to depend on government hand-outs for food.  They will need economic reform as much as they need a stable, reasonable government.  

I wonder what they will want to do with Saddam's hundred or so palaces?  

I hate that we are at war, but since we are, I do hope and pray that the Iraqi people come out of this better off than they were before.

[Celeste]

Last nite on Discovery channel a documentary "why did the events of 9/11 take place? I taped it & haven't watched it yet. You might be able to download it off the internet but I don't know.

 The U.S. Embassador sounded like nothing more than some mafia 'hood' spewing threats. How dare they-- because they are fascist.  I am so Glad to be Canadian. I only wish we wouldn't be this close & we should of tried to achieve independent economic status. We could have if our businessmen & politicians wouldn't have been so greedy & stupid. I know this won't be close to happening. We will be exposed to the same tactics of control.   This war was a big mistake.  They will fall in time but much more trouble is ahead.  Time to really pray & hone your intuition in order to avoid some of what is to come. There is a large battle being waged between Good & evil & evil has got the upper hand at this pt.  Pray for the increasing Omnipresent Power of the LIGHT over the darkness. Watch for the distractions that keep you from prayer & don't let it.

 Celeste

[Rob]

On holiday, not time to read posts so please forgive me if someone has already said this but I had an idea which seems kinda important....

.....has anyone actually bothered to ask the Iraqi people what they want??

- Rob in Cusco, Peru, going to Machu Picchu tomorrow hehe

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Considering this topic I started was about the "true cost of war", this BBC news article ironic to say the least:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2899823.stm

Quote from the article:

The White House continues to say that troops in Iraq are making progress, but the article quotes a former intelligence official as saying the war was now a stalemate.

The article says the army is running out of cruise missiles and precision guided bombs, and that there are maintenance problems with tanks.

"The only hope is that they can hold out until reinforcements arrive," the official told the magazine.

Looks like a few billions dollars wasted on weapons of destruction, and which could have been spent on food and other humanitarian needs, has got the "allies" precisly nowhere to speak of.

This war should be stopped right now and re-thought. If this is allowed to go to the streets of Bagdhad, the consequences will be horrendous for both sides, and in particular innocent civilains, not to mention the aftermath in all manifestations elsewhere.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Kristen]

Hi Adrian -

Um....  it is always good practice to never take at face value anything any media outlet of any source puts together about anything.  I would not trust any report about war efforts on any side of this or any other conflict.  Even if former intelligence sources (or even current ones) are quoted.  All media is biased and contains "spin."  In other words, the facts are not necessarily facts, and even if the sources are factual there is always an element of treating the "facts" with a slant.  This is a fundamental truth of life just as death and taxes are.

The United States has been in Iraq in this latest war effort for how many days?  Do you really think that the United States has run out of weapons at this point?  The US is never going to run out of weapons because the US military complex is well funded and has a stable and well greased infrastructure.  It can make weapons quickly and easily. As far as mechanical problems go, tanks always have mechanical issues, as do helicopters, fighter jets or any other mechanical tool of war.  This has been and always will be the case.  That is why the US Army, Marines and Airforce have divisions of dedicated mechanical specialists.

My husband was an airborne army military policeman who served in Panama and Kuwait.  I can't tell you how many times he has told me what "pieces of excrement" his equipment was... how machine guns jammed... how humvies were duct-taped and bubble-gummed together, how parachutes can fail...  One of my cousins used to be an Army tank specialist... While in his opinion they are incredible machines, they require constant mechanical maintenance.  I have a brother-in-law who is an Airforce aircraft mechanic... same story.  My father was an Airforce navigator who flew refuling missions over Vietnam among other things... refuling is a delicate operation requiring mechanical integrity to work properly and sometimes things break down.  Bottom line is that it just doesn't matter.  If a plane, tank, machine gun or helicopter malfunction or go down, there is more where they came from. If the US looses or pulls out of war in Iraq, it will be for strategic and political reasons, not just simply because of deficient hardware.

2 cents
KB

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Some disappointing developments coming out of the news networks.

Looks like the "allied forces" are going to have to "dig-in" for weeks and halt the advance, pending re-supplies, and another few hundred thousand more troops. This invasion has not proceeded according to plan, and looks as if it will escalate. Some people obviously did not learn the lessons of Vietnam, Panama etc.. How the allies intend to deal with the Iraqi military in their own streets is another thing again. Definite bad and dark vibes out of this.

What I found most incredible though is Colin Powell warning (threatening) Syria and Iran about their roles in terrorism. Here are the troops - peoples family members - and the Iraqi people suffering, and at huge costs of all kinds, and here they are planning the next invasions already. Libya after that no doubt.

This is being driven by dark forces, and already it is getting completely out of control as they intended. This has to be stopped! After Afghanistan and Iraq they look towards Syria, Iran and no doubt Libya.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Anonymous]

before you know it, the whole world will be under one government. I suppose there are worse countries that could be in power. I certainly wouldn't want Iraq to be in our position. Or North Korea. Or China for that matter (though they'll probably obtain equal or superior power anyway if they haven't already).

[bomohwkl]

Bush said by disarming Saddam through invasion of Iraq and pre-emptive strike, the threat of terrorism will be diminished. I wonder how many people in the world really agree on that. Inflating people hatred particularly in middle east will lead to more terrorism. I wonder whether Bush is intelligent enough to predict  this. Anyway, nowadays, terrorism is a mobile organisation.
Anyway, who bring Bush into power?

[Anonymous]

To be honest with you, I don't think Bush gives a flying f**k about the american people or what happens to them. He cares only about his selfish interests and motives. Don't count on him listening to the American people. Even during 9/11 I noticed a disturbing absence of emotion from him when he spoke. The flat tone in his voice, which seems to be there during his happiest days as well as his saddest, told me that he doesn't care about us. His ratings went up after this tragedy. Why? Because people believed that maybe this woke him up and that maybe he'd get us through. Did he? No. It was the American people who took care of this problem- Firemen, police officers, and hospitals, and other volunteers. What did Bush really do? He made speeches about how we were going to get the terrorists back.

Now he's using this terrorist event to justify every one of his actions. Why are we at war with Iraq? Because of the terrorists. Why did we go to war with Afghanistan? Because of the terrorists. Why are our freedoms disappearing right before our eyes? Because if we don't the terrorists will get us.

Most people in this country have protested the war. Did he listen to us? No. Instead he enacted the patriot act and set up "relocation camps" for "possible terrorists" which includes basically anyone who is against him. Bush is nothing more than a fascist fake. He's one of the presidents I dislike the most. In fact, I'd say he really is the worst "president" our country has ever seen. I wish people would wake up and stop thinking like sheep. We need a rebellion or an uprising of some kind.

Somewhere in the Constition it states that it is the duty of the American people to rise up against corruption in the government. the DUTY. Responsibility. Our government is corrupt through and through. As a patriot, I believe the time has come. What would great men such as George Washington and Abraham Lincoln say about our country today? They would not stand for it. Why should we? I propose that we have one day six months from now where NOBODY goes to work, school, or church. Do you realize how screwed our country's economy would be if this happened? It could NEVER recover. Just from ONE DAY. They would be forced to change the system. This is good because it would be done in a nonviolent way. And that's what we need.

I feel the time is now for me to make a difference. But I cannot do it alone. I've thrown out a suggestion to fix the problem with our country as of now. If anyone has a better one, please share it. The bottom line is, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE--- NOW. No more waiting. The time has come to take action.

[bomohwkl]

The important thing is to get the idea of silent protest across people who already protesting on the street.

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Yale professor William Nordhaus has calculated the cost of an invasion and reconstitution of Iraq to be as much as $1.92 Trillion!

What sort of obsenity is this to conduct a totally unjustified invasion, which most of the world is against including the colleagues and political parties of the leader and of course the United  (using the word advisedly) Nations, and when there is so much genuine misery in the world due to disease and famine?

We have discussed this at length in the other topic, but I just wanted to highlight the extremeness of the actions of Bush and his cohorts, and who are unquestionably under the control of the forces of darkness if they did but know it.

This decade is probably one of the most crucial ever to mankind as the physical planet, and everything on it undergo a dimensional and etheric "shift", and relatively few are in a position to shift with it. The dark forces - which are extremely real and very powerful - know this, and which is why we are increasingly seeing situations like 9/11, Afghanistan and now Iraq, and later, unless attitudes shift - North Korea and various other countries that most definitely have weapons of mass destruction and are prepared to use them.

Aside from overt war, the fallout of terror that could well result from lunacy is beyond the comprehension of Bush (as most things are).

This war is as good as a certainty now - please therefore send your positive energies and Love to all of those involved, and in particular to all of those needy people who will see these trillions of dollars spent on the instruments of mass destruction, instead of countless tons of food and other tangible assistance.

And all this in the name of glory, power and oil.

And Bush is a "born again christian".

Please let me remind you of the Twin Hearts Meditation:

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/energy-healing/pranic-healing/healing-meditation.asp

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/energy-healing/pranic-healing/twin-heart-meditation.asp

With best regards,

Adrian.