I always go into a dark spiral

[sublimy99]

I have been trying to AP for several years now and I've posted here
many times. My lucid dream count has increased tremendously, but
still no AP. I have had the vibrations several times now and in every
case I end up spinning, while in a  vibrational state. I remain calm and I
still always just ended up in my bed. This morning I was dreaming that
I was on a couch sleeping and decided to test if I was dreaming by
attempting to roll out of my body. Instead of rolling out and hitting
the floor, I just kept rolling, so I tried another technique and I
ended up in the same spinning dark vortex that I always end up in.

I remained calm while spinning and concentrated on floating. I got
the sensation of floating, but everything remained dark. I tried to
shoot towards my wall, I moved, but it still remained dark.

Can anyone get me past this stage?

[Xanth]

It's my opinion that if you've been lucid dreaming a lot, then, at least some of those LD's were infact Astral Projections.

I find that the line between Lucid Dreams and Astral Projection is so very fine and blurred that sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference.
I myself take my Lucid Dreams and convert them into Astral Projections.

Now, when I say "convert"... what converts isn't the experience.  What converts is MYSELF.  My consciousness.
First, you'll start off in what I call "Dream Awareness", then perhaps something in the dream will cause you to question the reality around you, which will then lead you to "Lucid Awareness"... from there, I bring forth my "Astral Awareness" by asking myself questions about where I am, how I found myself there and what I'm doing.

You'll notice ALL of those situations revolve around ME!  They revolve around my own consciousness.
When I go from a Dream to a Lucid Dream, I go nowhere... when I go from a Lucid Dream to an Astral Projection, I go nowhere.  All the changes comes from within.

Now, I'm assuming you want what I refer to as a "Classical OBE".  You want the separation along with being in your bedroom or whatever other familiar surroundings you want.  Well, it's easy once you have your Astral Awareness.  There's no need to return to your body only to have to get out again... you simply think about where ever it is you want to be on Earth and you'll shift and find yourself there.

Does that make any sense? 

[EscapeVelocity]

I think you're further than you may have given yourself credit for... sounds like you may actually be at the 3D Void, which is apparently the best "jumping off point" to go wherever you may want to go.

I agree with Xanth in that many of your "lucid dreams" have in fact been OBEs. The difference is in degree and ...in intent.

I've suffered from the same thing... what to do next? Step by small step, you have to have a clear intention of your next action. It has stalled me out many times, leaving me wondering 'what happened?'

There could be still a subconscious component such as fear or 'refusal to believe' that you're facing, but next time try something as simple as 'asking for vision' or 'asking for clarity' or 'eyes open'...understanding that you're not really opening your eyes but asking for the metaphorical/astral equivalent.


Keep on, EV

[sublimy99]

I'm going to post some of my better lucid dreams from my dream journal
and that way you can better judge if I am in fact lucid dreaming or astral projecting.

I was on a perfectly kept lawn and it was pouring and I became lucid.
I should mention here that I bumped up my b6 intake to 250mg's from 200, apparently
it did the trick. Anyway, everything was very green and vivid. I walked around this
very nice white house, in a very nice neighborhood. I was deciding what I would do
with my lucidity. I decided I would meditate. I sat down in front of a lawn fountain and crossed my legs and closed my eyes. I know that sounds weird but I heard
it was a good thing to do. It wasn't. I quickly got up, not wanting to waste a good
lucid dream. I walked around the neighborhood looking intently at the houses and surroundings
I decided to enter one of the houses and saw a little girl who looked at me and I said
"You can see me?" (as if I were a Ghost) and she said "yes" and that was it. I left and then woke up.

Lucid#2

I went back to sleep and became lucid pretty quickly and I was back in a similar
neighborhood, this time without the rain. I went in one of the houses and was talking to
some girls. I went up to one girl and started kissing her, she soon rejected me.
Hey! This is my dream and I'm in control, so I thought. Then I said hi to another girl
and she was all over my excrement for even saying hi. I told her I was just saying hi and she
insisted it was part of a ploy. I told her I liked her hair the other way, when it was
covering one eye, she smiled and I said "hello" implying, that is all it was about and
she smiled.


I was then outside of the house and I talked to this young man around 20/21 and I
started talking to him and telling him I was dreaming this and dreaming him and he laughed
and said "REALLY?" I said that he might also be real, and dreaming. This seemed to interest him. So, I said maybe you are somewhere dreaming and you are dreaming me, but I might be real and also
dreaming. I said yes and he thought that was pretty cool and he said touch my hand and I did
and he said "that felt real" maybe you are right. I said watch what we can do and I started
floating in the air and he laughed and I said you try it and he floated up and started laughing.
He said "Wow", thanks Dad.. I laughed and said "So, I guess I look old even in my dreams"

Then I walked to the back of the house. I was suddenly in a big field of green grass. It was rolling hills, like you might see in Ireland. I was thinking I should do something more with this
lucidity. Then I noticed a group walking towards me. It was a little girl and two older ladies
walking an odd looking dog. He was a big friendly, but cautious looking dog with very odd coloring. Like something you might see on a dining room rug, rather than the coat of a dog. I went up to the dog and briefly petted the dog. I said something to
one of the ladies. I mentioned that I was dreaming and went through the same dialog that I did
with the young man, that I was dreaming them and they might be dreaming me and touched one of the ladies hands
and it felt real. I then flew really high in the sky to show them what was possible and while I was up there
I grabbed a bunch of flowers that were floating near by and brought them down to the little girl.
There was a lot more to these dreams but nothing more of real significance. This second lucid dream seemed to last a long time.

These dream figures have been entering my dreams more and more. They are not teaching me anything, but do seem happy when I tell them I'm dreaming them. I have heard that most people say dream figures get angry when you tell them you are dreaming them. Not in my lucids they don't, which is good.

The thing I need to do in my lucid dreams is work on changing the scenery. I can control my actions, but not so much the scenery, but I haven't really worked to hard changing scenery. so, I guess that will be my next lucid goal, that and 360 vision.

Sept 17, 2010

Bad night for dreams. entity was being an moron!!!!!!
slapped me, stabbed me in the calf and grabbed me from behind and threw me.


Lucid dreams I remember:

1. first one was seeing myself in the mirror and saying: your in your bedroom dreaming this.
2. at johnston house warm sun flowers and flying.
3. johnston house water tower. under water breathing.
4. they've got something to tell me. floating in front of the girl. old haunted house.
5. flying up straight in the air very high, very fast. remember feeling the warm sun.
6. floating above the ocean spinning and looking at the people.
7. in my cousins house at little compton told the girl I was dreaming her
8. walking in the rain, stood still while scene melted and hoped to obe, instead I woke up
9. when shane was here, went btb and was floating up along scaffolding showing off to
const workers that I could fly..
10. on the beach. ran up to a little shack at the beach jumped up on the shack and then
flew over the ocean. as I flew over the ocean I skimmed the water with my hands.
11. walked up the backstairs of the East prov apt. walk up to the front wall and
turned around folded my arms and fell through the wall. kept falling till I woke up in bed.
12. looked at a book real close and noticed how clear it was. I was explaining this to the
person who was holding the book turned to see a cliff, jumped off and fell for a bit and then flew.
13. picked up this person on my rolling couch. I was stearing it down the road with my mind
picked up a girl dumped her off by tipping the couch which was now flying.
14. was jumping up on buildings and flew an invisible car off the roof, landed in this cool place 
with cool colored water. looked like paradise.
15. looked at building in the ghetto/hood tried to jump it, but only got as far as the gutters.
hung there and jumped off
16.in the dark basement  with the entity. called it out. left through small hole.
17. another basement with entity flew up (at speed of light)  after jumping through the window of a door.
18. picnic table talking to woman, noticed hands became lucid. ended up floating in a circus tent
asked for a spiritual guide entity grabbed me instead. held me by a string on each shoulder
saw the shadow of scissors cutting the strings...woke up.
19. in a restaurant girl comes up grabs my hands to dance. I was already dancing. flew up to the ceiling
the entity grabbed my legs and I tried to throw it off.
20. walking down the street at the robin hood drive house I think I'm dreaming and jump in the air to
test it and started flying.
21. chasing my sister Donna up into some caves became lucid my sister turned into a friend
kept chasing the friend even though I was lucid. he seemed like a real person.
22. see above dream journal, first entry.
23. see lucid dream #1 above
24. see lucid dream #2 above
25.
26.
27.
28.
29.
30. I know I've easily had 30 lucid dreams or more, 30 is fair, though I don't
remember them all.

[Xanth]

I'm going to post some of my better lucid dreams from my dream journal
and that way you can better judge if I am in fact lucid dreaming or astral projecting.

See, that's the kind of thinking that I want to try and "fix".
From what you're saying it looks like you think that these are external events.

I'd actually like to surmise that "Lucid Dreaming" and "Astral Projection" don't exist at all.
They're made up terms for something that people have been externalizing and interpreting incorrectly for thousands of years.
They're not things that you do... they are states of mind.  YOUR mind.

Hence my new designation system...
"Dream Awareness"
"Lucid Awareness"
"Astral Awareness"

It's all about your own consciousness.

When you look at it like that, figuring out what experience you're having is EASY.
Just look at your own consciousness during the experience. 

[EscapeVelocity]

Okay, my opinion; look at it this way: You are having multiple Fo2 experiences; that's good but basically you're wandering around in your own subconscious dreamstate. Great fun, and some key metaphorical/symbolic lessons... i'm thinking of #18 and #19 that you described...

When you're ready to try something new when in one of these episodes...stop! Slow down just a bit. Increase your awareness by looking at your hands, or grab hold of some object, or try spinning. Then look for a portal...a doorway, a window, mirror or picture and as you pass through it express your intent to go somewhere in the astral or visit someone, or learn some particular lesson...and then let it take you where it will.

Sounds like you're getting out there; now go with some serious intent.

[Xanth]

Great advice EscapeVelocity! 

It's right on with the methods I use for increasing my Lucid Awareness to Astral Awareness.
Except, instead of looking at my hands... I focus on one particular aspect of my environment and start to question myself, "How did I get here?", "Where did I come from?", "Where am I going?", and "What am I doing here right now?".

Those tend to open up my awareness more akin to my waking awareness.

[sublimy99]

I think you're further than you may have given yourself credit for... sounds like you may actually be at the 3D Void, which is apparently the best "jumping off point" to go wherever you may want to go.

Escape, this sounds great! Could you possibly elaborate on what I should do with this!

BTW, thanks for all the great info and advice, I mean that to all who responded.
Also, BTW, I had my first WILD last night!!

[Xanth]

You Phased!  Congratulations.