question about a meditation tecnique( breath awareness)

[gil-galad]

Hi

I have been using "breath awareness" to reach a meditative state for AP.

During the exercise, I observe the sensations caused by the breath where it enters and leaves the body (around the nosetrills). I do not observe the whole course of the breath. I narrow my focus around a specific area( the nose). I do this because I have read that this is a traditional way of observing the breath (in Budhist meditation).
((((I have tried to observe the breath  in other ways as well, but for diferent reasons it didn't work.))))


However, the sensations around the tips of the nosetrills are so subtle that sometimes I loose track of them. When this happens, I do nothing, I just continue obseving that small area. In other words, the only thing on which I hold my attention is this small area around my nose. I am not sure if the action (holding attention on a small area of the body + looking for the sensations caused by the breath there (but not sensing anything)) is enough to reach a meditative state suitable for AP.

Do you have any idea?
Can I reach this state if I do the meditation in the above mentioned way?

Thanks in advance

[Stookie]

If your attention is fully placed on one thing without intrusions, then it should be OK. If you're wondering if it's OK while you're doing it, you're having an intruding thought. It's not so much about the actual breath as the observer of the breath. Eventually the breath and the observer merge together. Or the observer and whatever-object-of-meditation merge.

If observing breath is difficult, have you tried visualization? Holding on to a single image without intruding thoughts can have the same benefit. At the same time, I don't suggest changing techniques until you've tried one out for a good period of time, like a month or longer.

One last suggestion - when I focus on breath, I let my awareness follow it through my nostrils, down my windpipe, and feel it expand my lungs all the way down to the bottom, and then follow it back out, rather than just keeping my awareness at my nostrils.

Hope this helps.

[bluremi]

I do the exact same mindfulness meditation before trying AP. I find it the sensation of breath in my nostrils usually goes through some stages:

1) At first it's very easy to perceive the breath around the nostrils
2) As you get relaxed and your breathing becomes shallower and slower, it gets difficult to hold onto the sensation, especially the exhale.
3) As you continue to focus you lose awareness of your entire body, except for your nostrils. The breath now becomes very clear and easy to experience: it's a cool sensation passing across your nose.

Maybe you haven't reached stage 3 yet? There are more stages beyond that one but I haven't reached them yet myself.

[indian]

Hi

I have been using "breath awareness" to reach a meditative state for AP.

During the exercise, I observe the sensations caused by the breath where it enters and leaves the body (around the nosetrills). I do not observe the whole course of the breath. I narrow my focus around a specific area( the nose). I do this because I have read that this is a traditional way of observing the breath (in Budhist meditation).
((((I have tried to observe the breath  in other ways as well, but for diferent reasons it didn't work.))))


However, the sensations around the tips of the nosetrills are so subtle that sometimes I loose track of them. When this happens, I do nothing, I just continue obseving that small area. In other words, the only thing on which I hold my attention is this small area around my nose. I am not sure if the action (holding attention on a small area of the body + looking for the sensations caused by the breath there (but not sensing anything)) is enough to reach a meditative state suitable for AP.

Do you have any idea?
Can I reach this state if I do the meditation in the above mentioned way?

Thanks in advance

Hi,

People actually miss the whole idea of this "Breath Awareness" because so much misleading information is posted on internet without any authentication.

First you need to understand why you need to do this Vipassana (breath awareness) thing? The whole idea behind this concept is to become "Witness". Since breath is a regular exercise being done by our body automatically, so concentrating on it leads to "The Witness". You can actually  gain same state by watching flowing river, or a listening to a particular repeated sound, or just by dancing round and round (like sufis do). You have to be Witness, that is the key.

When you watch you breath, breath comes in, going out, comes in, going out.. so here you do not need to concentrate on anything particular, if you do that you will miss whole idea behind this. You will just have to be "witness", witness of your breath coming in and going out and this "Witness" is watching this whole process. Soon you will start realizing that you actually NOT breath, or Body, you are something else, who is just watching and witnessing everything. The more you go deeper and deeper, you will start separating yourself from your body, thoughts and then mind. But this will come after long exercise. First you will start this with breath, then thoughts, then emotions. And that will be the last stage.

Vipassana (breath awareness) can be done on regular basis, by watching a TV or doing any household work. Once you are master in it, you will be able to do it when you drive your car. But that come later as first you will have to separate yourself from you body mind and thought. This is the whole concept of Vipassana.

For example, when you watch TV, you get so much involve with the daily soap or the movie and you actually forget yourself and you attach yourself deeper with the scene and you start feeling all those emotions the actor or actress going through. So, now when you watch TV, watch it from a distance, when I say Distance that doesn't mean in measurement term, distance mean, watch TV by sitting on the couch and you should actually be on "The Couch". Once you learn how to be witness of watching TV, you will get the key. So watching TV can also be same as you watch your breath. If you start feeling emotions during the TV watch, that means you lost your self and you are attached with the movie, so come back again on the couch and start watching it as witness.  Just learn this "WITNESS" thing, and you will get the key.

Once a person asked to a Sufi, "who are you"? he said "I am the one". Then the man asked "and how did you know that", he replied, "just by watching this flowing river".

Watching is the main process that leads to the witness. Watch with awareness and do not let yourself go into the dream. You can see that when you watch with awareness, your mind stops and you come to a "No Thought" state. Where you are the only one who is seeing everything without being attached with bodily emotions.

Let me know if you need any further explanation.

Regards

[Stookie]

Well explained indian. Thanks for sharing!

[ingerul9]

Hi indian. I have a few questions for you. I have done a bit of meditation here and there. I know that to be good in phasing you need to practice more but I will nevertheless keep asking what's bugging me.

Whenever I observe my breath the thoughts are starting to fade way. Slowly but surely my subconscious takes a hold of me and I can see myself watching my own symbology of dreaming. These days I play a lot of Starcraft 2 so whenever I get to a light sleep I just observe my own thoughts. Obviously my dream is about something but this something is covered in starcraft 2 symbology because it is so ingrained in my mentality right now. In all of the cases I am tired but can still watch my own subconscious.

Now my question to you if you had experience with this - is how do I get active within it? I am supposing that this is to being tired and my waking awareness just goes bye bye when starting light dreaming (e.g. when taking a nap). I can usually observe my thoughts when going in a car, riding a train, going for a nap  just to give you a few examples. I sometimes meditate on a chair or on the bed and with the back straight up. At the moment I can only observe my thoughts.

I want to keep my waking consciousness in my phasing so I can direct my awareness in another direction than simply watching my own thoughts. I seem at the moment that I cannot direct it to anything. As soon as I try to bring my awareness I snap suddenly back to waking consciousness.

Another point I wanted to ask is about clarity in phasing versus lucid dreaming. Whenever I lucid dream the imagery is crystal clear. Whenever I observe my own subconscious it is like daydreaming (the imagery being well different from lucid dreaming - I think you know what I mean).

From your own experience once you become accustomed to your subconscious and start being active with your waking awareness does the imagery become like in a lucid dream? Or it just stays like in a daydreaming?

I think the general answer is more practice as usual .

Have a nice day,

Ozzy

[Ruu]

Very insightful Thank you, I understand.

Luke~

[indian]

Now my question to you if you had experience with this - is how do I get active within it? I am supposing that this is to being tired and my waking awareness just goes bye bye when starting light dreaming (e.g. when taking a nap). I can usually observe my thoughts when going in a car, riding a train, going for a nap  just to give you a few examples. I sometimes meditate on a chair or on the bed and with the back straight up. At the moment I can only observe my thoughts.

I want to keep my waking consciousness in my phasing so I can direct my awareness in another direction than simply watching my own thoughts. I seem at the moment that I cannot direct it to anything. As soon as I try to bring my awareness I snap suddenly back to waking consciousness.

Another point I wanted to ask is about clarity in phasing versus lucid dreaming. Whenever I lucid dream the imagery is crystal clear. Whenever I observe my own subconscious it is like daydreaming (the imagery being well different from lucid dreaming - I think you know what I mean).

Sorry for the late reply, as I was busy.

The very first thing, you can not be awake if you have thoughts running in your mind. When you are Awake, there will be no thoughts. How can you be alert and daydreaming altogether?

The phasing theory is a bit different than this meditation awareness technique. Meditation alertness technique leads you to the path of enlightenment while phasing is something very different than this. The meaning of Buddha is "The Awakened One", there was no day dreaming involved. He was a complete consciousness. 

For me, phasing becomes very easy if you are Awake. When you are able awake in your daily life, you will be awaken even when your body goes to sleep. You will never sleep in fact. But it will take time. To be witness is the key and that will lead you to this awakening stage.

Once you are awake, you will not have to shift your consciousness anywhere, just let you body sleep and your will be phased to another dimension.

People start practicing phasing directly while if they learn this Witness technique, phasing will become much more easy.

So phasing practice during sleep is not not a good practice. How can you be awake in your sleep while you are NOT at ALL awake when you think you are awake. To know this, just sit in front of your loved one (mother father or wife..etc..) and then look at his/her face, just look with full awakeness when you will see with awakeness, remember there will be no thought in your mind. If there is a thought that means you are not awake. Try to see their face and then you will start realizing that you are seeing him/her first time in your life. You haven't actually saw your loved one ever. You have never seen things with full awareness. Just look at your house, look at you lawn without any thought in mind and then you will realize the meaning of awakened stage.

One thing here to remember, seeing with awareness, as a Witness doesn't mean that you need to Concentrate on that object, No never.. When you are aware, you see things as whole. You are never involved in that object, Remember this.

Let me know if you need any more clarifications.

Regards

[indian]

Very insightful Thank you, I understand.

Luke~

You are welcome my friend.

[indian]

Well explained indian. Thanks for sharing!

You are welcome Stookie. How is your phasing practice going?

[ingerul9]

Sorry for the late reply, as I was busy.

The very first thing, you can not be awake if you have thoughts running in your mind. When you are Awake, there will be no thoughts. How can you be alert and daydreaming altogether?

The phasing theory is a bit different than this meditation awareness technique. Meditation alertness technique leads you to the path of enlightenment while phasing is something very different than this. The meaning of Buddha is "The Awakened One", there was no day dreaming involved. He was a complete consciousness. 

For me, phasing becomes very easy if you are Awake. When you are able awake in your daily life, you will be awaken even when your body goes to sleep. You will never sleep in fact. But it will take time. To be witness is the key and that will lead you to this awakening stage.

Once you are awake, you will not have to shift your consciousness anywhere, just let you body sleep and your will be phased to another dimension.

People start practicing phasing directly while if they learn this Witness technique, phasing will become much more easy.

So phasing practice during sleep is not not a good practice. How can you be awake in your sleep while you are NOT at ALL awake when you think you are awake. To know this, just sit in front of your loved one (mother father or wife..etc..) and then look at his/her face, just look with full awakeness when you will see with awakeness, remember there will be no thought in your mind. If there is a thought that means you are not awake. Try to see their face and then you will start realizing that you are seeing him/her first time in your life. You haven't actually saw your loved one ever. You have never seen things with full awareness. Just look at your house, look at you lawn without any thought in mind and then you will realize the meaning of awakened stage.

One thing here to remember, seeing with awareness, as a Witness doesn't mean that you need to Concentrate on that object, No never.. When you are aware, you see things as whole. You are never involved in that object, Remember this.

Let me know if you need any more clarifications.

Regards

What you said about being awake is this mindfulness what you're speaking of? When I practiced MILD which for me is just another induction of phasing I managed 2-3 times to stay awake during the whole process. For me the experience was going to point-consciousness and sinking in my body and then straight to the dreamworld without any interruptions.

Ok so you're saying breath-awareness and phasing don't relate to each other. Yes?

I will try to explain in more detail my earlier question. When I'm starting the process of phasing I am stilling my mind. In this time my mind concentrates only on being aware of my inner sound. Whenever I have any thoughts I gently let them pass by. As time passes on I will drift to sleep. I think that in the moments prior to my body going to shutdown my mind is inundated by thoughts. At this point I cannot let the thoughts go away and I get overwhelmed. I admit that this is a possibility of me sleeping in the bed.

Whenever I do the breath awareness when sitting straight for 15-20 minutes I can keep my awareness and let the thoughts go and return to breath. Maybe an increase in the time spent in meditation can be of benefit in the long run.

Anyway the difference between phasing and breath awareness comes to being active or passive. I think one of the main reason that my thoughts are overrunning me is because my mind is not engaged enough to maintain the attention necessary.  I try to phase when going to sleep.

To wrap up I sometimes do breath awareness and sometimes I do phasing. I like both of them and sometimes I try to combine them. 

[bluremi]

I love Indian's descriptions of mindfulness.

You can break mindfulness meditation into two components: the goal and the skill needed to attain that goal.

The GOAL is to observe something purely, without applying any of the concepts, labels, thoughts, or feelings you've built up over your years of experience. One key aspect of this "pure witnessing" is the smooth and uninterrupted focus you employ to achieve pure experience. Attaining this focus is the SKILL you need.

If you practice breath awareness long enough you may start to notice that when you are focusing on your breathing, you're actually only doing it for milliseconds at a time.

You will perceive the sensation of breath from the nerves in your nose, and then immediately this information will be analyzed by your mind and you are instantly no longer using those nerves--instead you are experiencing the thought of those sensations; the concept of feeling your breath. It is very difficult to make this distinction, but it's there. In addition to this there are a bunch of other things clamoring minutely for your attention: every time your eyes make a micromovement it registers in your mind and tears your attention away for a tiny fraction of a moment. Other sounds, sights, sensations are always pulling your attention away, so fast you don't even notice it. In this way your attention is similar to the images in a film reel: they flicker by so fast it appears to be a smooth motion on the screen, when in reality they are separate unconnected images going by too fast to perceive.


When your attention is totally focused there is no room for thoughts to impinge on your consciousness. A stray thought trying to get in would be like trying to dart your fingers in and out through a whirling fan. This level of focus is the skill you are trying to develop with mindfulness meditation, and this skill has the great side effect of making it easier to phase.

I start phasing practice with mindfulness meditation in order to still my thoughts and focus my mind. To get a strong unbreakable focus would take more than an hour, but I can focus my mind sufficiently after about 15-20 minutes so that falling asleep or losing concentration becomes impossible. It becomes VERY EASY to practice phasing in this state of mind, since there are no distractions. You can go to the edge of sleep and still be fully in control.

I think this is what you were asking about? The relationship between meditation and phasing?