Can't project

[luffy28]

I'm starting this thread because for years I've been trying to AP but every time I lay on my back and relax. But the only part I can do is relax. I've never got the vibrations,seperation etc...

Is there any way I can get past just the trance state ?

[astraladdict]

What method have you been using?

[luffy28]

Various methods. The one I use the most is the one where you keep breathing in and out until you can't feel your body anymore, then you try a visualization technique to project. But no matter what I do I can't get past this stage. The only part that I can get to is when I can't feel my body anymore and that's it. There was one time I almost got the vibrations but that was years ago. What do you suggest ? I've tried every technique that I can find on the internet and they don't work. What I'm doing now is trying to do reality checks so I can astral project from a dream (A course in dreams and Astral travel).

[Tiny]

I'm going through similiar difficulties.

The core problem here is a lack of detachment, in my opinion.

My experience is that the body won't go to sleep if you don't detach from all your body parts first.

Start with your toes and work your way upwards, forget nothing. Feel, then release.

You can't exit by visualization until you are fully unlocked from your physical body.


kind regards,

Paul

[personalreality]

try when you're sleepy in the afternoon.

don't try to hard.  you want to be "passively active".

if you keep your mind too active it won't happen.

i like to say "pretend to go to sleep" while maintaining a thread of awareness.

it's tricky, but practice makes perfect.

a good way to help learning to keep that thread of awareness is to do the finger tapping or raised arm thing when you do to sleep.  if you lose consciousness your arm falls or your finger stops tapping which should wake you up.  keep doing that and you'll learn how to navigate the "borderland" between awake and asleep which is where projection occurs for many people.

[luffy28]

try when you're sleepy in the afternoon.

don't try to hard.  you want to be "passively active".

if you keep your mind too active it won't happen.

i like to say "pretend to go to sleep" while maintaining a thread of awareness.

it's tricky, but practice makes perfect.

a good way to help learning to keep that thread of awareness is to do the finger tapping or raised arm thing when you do to sleep.  if you lose consciousness your arm falls or your finger stops tapping which should wake you up.  keep doing that and you'll learn how to navigate the "borderland" between awake and asleep which is where projection occurs for many people.

That's the monroe method I've tried that but the only problem is that I don't sleep on my back. I sleep on my side. Are there any guides on this site for doing it in another position other than your back.

[CFTraveler]

Various methods. The one I use the most is the one where you keep breathing in and out until you can't feel your body anymore, then you try a visualization technique to project. But no matter what I do I can't get past this stage. The only part that I can get to is when I can't feel my body anymore and that's it.

It sounds like you are trying the exit before you're ready.  The fact that you're waiting for 'body feeling/lack of it' tells me you're not detached enough, and you will not get detached enough if you continue to wait for something to happen (or not happen) to your body.  So I'd suggest that you do something to occupy your mind enough to get you to that awake/asleep state, but to stay aware and look for changes in consciousness or visual input, instead of waiting for 'the lack of' sensations.

There was one time I almost got the vibrations but that was years ago. What do you suggest ?

Stop expecting vibrations.  They don't happen to everyone and they don't necessarily mean you're going to exit right away.  They're wonderful when they happen, but they don't always.

I've tried every technique that I can find on the internet and they don't work. What I'm doing now is trying to do reality checks so I can astral project from a dream (A course in dreams and Astral travel).

In this case you need to work on LD and go from there.

[Xanth]

I prefer Phasing and find it much easier than any of the other more "classic" methods for projecting.

This article explains what Phasing is and how you can use an exercise called "Noticing" to project into the Astral.
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/09/06/what-is-phasing-and-noticing/

And this article is what *I* do to project.
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/11/25/xanths-phasing-method/

I hope those help you. 

[NickisDank]

I just don't get it, I thought your not supposed to have ANY thoughts of your physical body at all. Why are you saying focus on one part at a time to get them To fully relax, when couldn't you just lay there and be aware of what's going on and that eventually happen?

[CFTraveler]

I just don't get it, I thought your not supposed to have ANY thoughts of your physical body at all. Why are you saying focus on one part at a time to get them To fully relax, when couldn't you just lay there and be aware of what's going on and that eventually happen?

Are you asking Xanth?

[NickisDank]

Anyone that can answer

[Xanth]

I just don't get it, I thought your not supposed to have ANY thoughts of your physical body at all. Why are you saying focus on one part at a time to get them To fully relax, when couldn't you just lay there and be aware of what's going on and that eventually happen?

Well, I'll be honest... and this my own personal opinion, so feel free to experiment... but the point you raise is why I'm not too keen on Tiny's method.
I prefer to just keep my mind occupied AWAY from any aspect of my body as I'm practicing.

But as I said, give his method a shot and see what works for you. 

[NickisDank]

I see, it's just methods like that make me question am I doing anything at all right, I'm sure once I get experienced I'll have my own prefered way. But not ATM.

[Tiny]

I just don't get it, I thought your not supposed to have ANY thoughts of your physical body at all. Why are you saying focus on one part at a time to get them To fully relax, when couldn't you just lay there and be aware of what's going on and that eventually happen?

You're just poorly informed, allow me to explain.

When your body goes to sleep at night, automatically the energy body will loosen and eventually project. After you woke up from that sleep, your energy body is still quite loose, that's why you can exit again very easily in the morning. When you take certain drugs or entheogens, the energy body will be forced to loosen because the physical body is no longer able to confine it.
But, when you're in the middle of the day, your energy body is very much ingrained in the physical body and you have to loosen it manually.
I have projected in full consciousness while talking out of my physical mouth without being in any of this trance/phase/drifting sh**. In fact, it is best to be as physically conscious and as little trancy as possible when initiating an astral projection. Getting out of body with the astral body, no matter if a feeling-based or visual-based technique is used - is all about unlocking, loosening the energy body.

Another big challenge I didn't mention and it keeps bugging me too, is to slow down the breath rate manually, as often isn't done automatically by the autonomous nervous system.

If the breath/heart rate is too fast, you will feel compelled to move and eventually agonize and get frustrated so perhaps that's another factor for you.
Work with your body, not against it. The physical body is actually in posession of YOU, not the other way round. It is effectively an electromagnetic faraday-cage for your astral body.


kind regards,

Paul

[Xanth]

You're just poorly informed, allow me to explain.

So, what you're trying to say here is that you're right and everyone else is wrong... correct?
And you're going to provide this factual enlightenment for everyone?  How nice of you. 

[CFTraveler]

I just don't get it, I thought your not supposed to have ANY thoughts of your physical body at all. Why are you saying focus on one part at a time to get them To fully relax, when couldn't you just lay there and be aware of what's going on and that eventually happen?

I do use energy work (only raising, though) in the beginning of my routine- it allows me to feel my energy body, and when that is accomplished (and it is relaxing, mind you) I move to non-body techniques to deepen the trance and disassociate from my body.
So I would tell you, that energy work is beneficial for the endeavor in general (especially a conscious RTZ OBE with exit) but shouldn't be done at the end of the process, after you're in trance and ready to get out, so to speak.  Then I advocate a total concentration on nonphysical cues.
However, and this I'll point out, when you become very experienced and proficient at deep conscious trance states, you can play with your energy body and still explore nonphysical states.

[luffy28]

I bought (a while ago) the gateway series would that help.

[CFTraveler]

Most (or all)  of the people I know that have the Gateway series swear by it- but you have to realize that it is not a 'miracle press a button and you're out' deal- the gateway series brings you to certain brain states designed for you to recognize them and become familiarized with them, so that you can then induce them on purpose or recognize them when they happen naturally.

[Naykid]

What if this Gateway series is like a drug?  You use it a couple of times then after that it doesn't help in the way it's suppose to. 

[Xanth]

What if this Gateway series is like a drug?  You use it a couple of times then after that it doesn't help in the way it's suppose to. 

Then there are a lot of addicts out there. 

[Naykid]

I was serious.   You know how people get on pain killers to help with a pain but after some time their tolerance for that pill gets really high and the drug doesn't help anymore.  I was thinking that perhaps this gateway.. which is funny cause of the whole gateway drug stigma....   What if you buy this thing and it only works a couple times because you need more after you've reached a certain level?

I think it's best to do everything the natural way. IMO.

[NickisDank]

I was serious.   You know how people get on pain killers to help with a pain but after some time their tolerance for that pill gets really high and the drug doesn't help anymore.  I was thinking that perhaps this gateway.. which is funny cause of the whole gateway drug stigma....   What if you buy this thing and it only works a couple times because you need more after you've reached a certain level?

I think it's best to do everything the natural way. IMO.

I remember seeing a post by a user on this site saying he used weed to loosen his body, which would begin to loosen your energy body, in all senses that would work would it Not? Regardless of anyones views here on weed.

And when that user said that, everyone said using any mind altering drugs would be considered bad, but I don't understand how weed(which is a plant and natural in certain form) wouldn't be good For you, but this gateway thing is perfectly fine

It makes no sense

[Naykid]

I remember seeing a post by a user on this site saying he used weed to loosen his body, which would begin to loosen your energy body, in all senses that would work would it Not? Regardless of anyones views here on weed.

And when that user said that, everyone said using any mind altering drugs would be considered bad, but I don't understand how weed(which is a plant and natural in certain form) wouldn't be good For you, but this gateway thing is perfectly fine

It makes no sense

I've smoked quite a bit of weed in my days, and I even think it's isn't conducive to having an out of body experience.  It will give you the FEELING of rising or sinking, but once you get to that feeling you have to understand it's a false feeling...you will get no where. 

[AlanRK]

I remember seeing a post by a user on this site saying he used weed to loosen his body, which would begin to loosen your energy body, in all senses that would work would it Not? Regardless of anyones views here on weed.

And when that user said that, everyone said using any mind altering drugs would be considered bad, but I don't understand how weed(which is a plant and natural in certain form) wouldn't be good For you, but this gateway thing is perfectly fine

It makes no sense

Many naturally-occuring herbs are quite dangerous. Just because something is grown in a pretty environment doesn't mean it will agree with the human body.

As for this gateway thing, I kind of agree with Naykid to an extent. They are a crutch and ideally they shouldn't be necessary. However I see them as a tool which people can use to get themselves started on their journey, from there they should discard the tools and continue on their own abilities. This "Gateway" stuff to me sounds like just that; a gateway. Many people do have difficulties with these things, and using a tool to guide through the initial procedures is a good thing. If it stops working after a certain point, then so be it. It just means that the individual has to continue in a different direction which they themselves must determine.

[CFTraveler]

What if this Gateway series is like a drug?  You use it a couple of times then after that it doesn't help in the way it's suppose to. 

I don't have Gateway, but I have other Binaurals and they don't work at first and then stop working- I think it's more like 'they sometimes get you really relaxed' and sometimes don't- not in a progressive way like chemicals would.
But of course, I suppose someone who has an addictive personality could have the tendency to be addicted to them- but I doubt it.  They're just not conducive to the kinds of 'highs' or 'blissful feelings' that alcohol or marihuana give- no 'punch' and crash, just relaxing and almost-sleeping.  Trance.