Mike Starr is Dead from Overdose

[Fresco]

To me AP and LD is just a hobby and nothing more 

[personalreality]

I don't really do point-by-point counter arguments, but why not.

I'm no doctor but this sounds like pseudoscience. If a drug user needs a psychological stimulus to trigger the body's defenses (doesn't the body actually crave the drug in the addict anyway?) the "pre-high ritual" would be more than enough in a situation where he's out of his normal surroundings. I would think it more likely a drug user is less comfortable around strange people in an unfamiliar environment creating anxiety, more intense side effects, increased heart rate, etc. Even then I doubt this is the typical reason for drug related deaths.

I actually first learned about this effect in a class at university called "Learning and Cognition", which was incidentally taught by a professor who is also a leading researcher in the effects of tobacco (psychologically and physiologically) and tobacco addiction, as well as other stuff like hookah smoking (versus other forms of tobacco) and some nut from indonesia (betel nut i think?).  I don't disagree, it is kind of counter-intuitive.  But the effect was first observed in relation to Diabetes and Insulin.  But I assure you, it is not pseudoscience.  Quite a lot of things that happen in your body are heavily dependent on conditioned situations.  The "ritual" certainly has an effect, and I assure you, when you're jones-ing for a hit, you don't care who's there.  

More likely if it's not taking too much of the drug that kills the drug user, it's the heart or respiratory system being weakened over time to the point where they (seemingly randomly) fail.

well yea.  that's what they always say on the news when a famous person dies of an O.D.  Instead of saying "so-and-so died of a drug overdose", they say "so-and-so died of heart failure (or respiratory distress)".  rarely do they say it was the drugs.  so technically, what kills someone in an overdose is their heart or breathing stopping, but that situation was caused by the drugs.  

I wasn't surprised, I figured it was meant to stir a reaction. I don't agree with it, but there are far more ridiculous viewpoints than atheism so I left it alone.

I have no interest in "stirring things up" to get a reaction.  In fact, many of the regulars may notice I haven't been around much lately and it is for precisely that reason.  

I am most certainly not an atheist (i quite despise most of them, probably because i really don't like spaghetti) and I thank you to ask before you label me.  

I believe my point was missed entirely.  I don't know if there is an afterlife (or by extension a god?  which seemed to be your implication, which is ridiculous to me.  an afterlife isn't dependent on a deity) and I wouldn't say that I "believe" in an afterlife.  but i didn't say i don't believe in one either.  and i'm not agnostic (in case you just got a bright idea).  to be honest, my perception of reality is literally impossible to convey to you, or anyone.  my beliefs aren't founded on words i've read and philosophical treatises that i've written.  they are founded on the sum total of my intuitions, experiences, contemplations, etc., etc.  And the whole is certainly more than the sum of it's parts.  but as best i can understand my sense of guidance (i don't mean a "spirit guide" or something like that, i mean my core, my heart, me.), worrying about the afterlife is a fear that i don't want.  i know death is stalking me.  i know i will die.  so now that that's settled, i would like to focus on other things.  i'm not completely unafraid of death, but i'm trying.  be honest with yourself (you don't have to comment back on this, it's just for you), you study this stuff and think about afterlives and spiritual growth because deep down inside, you are terrified of death because you just don't know.  i know i am.

but like i said, this comes from a purely subjective place and i can't really expect anyone to "truly get it" because that's just not the nature of our reality.  

But no scientist has detected any energy separate from the flesh and blood human that reabsorbs in a different form.

don't always jump to metaphysics.  thermodynamics, energy can't be created or destroyed, it only changes form.  there's nothing spiritual or religious about that.  just good old fashioned cycle of life.

Like with any other piece of information you can either use it to grow or use it to justify stagnation.

agreed.

Because it's a topic related to altered states, a subject I'm assuming you're interested in since you're here. If you aren't interested by all means don't force yourself to do something which doesn't bring you joy. We all try to live perfectly good lives that need to be lived now... we do that by doing things that bring us varying degrees of hapiness.

the question was rhetorical.  again, my point was missed.

*sigh*

this is also why i don't contribute a lot anymore.  i try to share how i feel, and people make assumptions about my thoughts and my motives.  don't.  just consider what myself and other have to say.  if it vibes with you, good.  if not, forget about it and move on.  if you don't get it, ask.  if you get it and hate it, remember to address the argument, not the person who made it.  

[Lexy]

Dear lord. It doesn't matter if he took drugs while he was alive. The drugs are in his physical body. what matters is the state of mind in which he was in. If he had an ecstatic pain-free death, then he may be happy in the afterlife assuming that there is one.

If you observe life on Earth, you will find that things tend to expand, develop and adapt to their environments. Consciousness appears to do the same. It improves and continues to do so by learning and never sees the sight of its entelechy because it seems that there is always something more that can contribute to its expansion.

Why would consciousness, assuming that it is the quintessence of reality, decide that it should kill off one of its elements in the afterlife (i.e.Mike Starr)? Despite having been a drug addict, wasn't he more useful in waking life while he was alive than now that he is dead? Wasn't he musically creative? Didn't he effect loads of people by interacting with them? Didn't he change the world in some way? Isn't it more logical for consciousness to recycle his energy and use it to effect more of its aspects rather than just wipe it out. Isn't it more productive to use him and put him in other situations where he may again effect others and contribute to the experience and learning of other individuals rather than just obliterate him?

Regardless of whether an individual is good or bad, they will always be useful in some way because of what they represent. Doesn't it seem a bit illogical that an ever-expanding infinite and collective consciousness would just decide (or through some natural law) to wipe out an individual self when that self element still has potential?

Do you really think being on drugs has no effect on your consciousness? When your mind's only thought is the next high, how can you evolve your consciousness? He was addicted not just experimenting.

Mike killed himself, no one else did that. He could have been many things here but not anymore, he can only be that unique individual once. That is what he destroyed.

[personalreality]

Do you really think being on drugs has no effect on your consciousness? When your mind's only thought is the next high, how can you evolve your consciousness? He was addicted not just experimenting.

Mike killed himself, no one else did that. He could have been many things here but not anymore, he can only be that unique individual once. That is what he destroyed.

I want to preface this by saying that I don't entirely disagree with this comment.

For some people, addiction is a necessary learning experience.  I mean, I wouldn't change my addiction experience.  I learned a lot.  If one has the ability to maintain the awareness of the experience, a lot can be learned.  It's tricky though.  You have to try and balance being totally consumed by a need (not just desire) to use with your personal motivations towards 'enlightenment'.  It's hard.

[Summerlander]

Do you really think being on drugs has no effect on your consciousness? When your mind's only thought is the next high, how can you evolve your consciousness? He was addicted not just experimenting.

Mike killed himself, no one else did that. He could have been many things here but not anymore, he can only be that unique individual once. That is what he destroyed.

No no! You misunderstood me. Drugs do have an effect on consciousness. In fact, drugs can give you the necessary boost to experience various states of consciousness. But there is no spiritual force out there that will punish you for taking these drugs. If there is a perceived punishment once you are in the metaphysical realm, it is only because you feel guilty of taking those drugs and you are thus punishing yourself.

If Starr took the drugs and did not feel guilty...if all he wanted was the high and he saw nothing wrong with achieving it, then he may be in his own personal "heavenly" bubble by now where he experiences that heroin high. Because he wanted it so much, it just manifests for him and he is in that state of consciousness until he realises that there is much more than that.

Besides, there is also the possibility that his energy may be recycled into another physical life where he may start afresh, from pristine cognition, and no longer conscious of past memories unless he tunes into them.

Yes, he did kill himself...by accident! He overdosed. Even the suicidal, in my opinion, are not punished by any God (although I suspect they may feel a sense of wrong-doing for sometime as they realise how much pain they've caused). Eventually they move on from that as they get fed up of lingering on the same "heavy" thoughts.

This is my view so far...

[Lexy]

I guess you misunderstood me..I never said he was punished or wrong. Drugs give you a false boost ..you didn't really work towards that boost, you just get to experience what it could be like to raise your consciousness then you get brought back down to your reality with possible irreversable damage to your etheric field...In my eyes he killed himself. I watched him get clean on celebrity rehab, he was told over & over if he kept using he would die. Addiction is a horrible thing but if you can overcome it, that is what is truly enlightening and inspiring. To romanticize his situation is not helpful to anyone.

[Fresco]

I still think the best rehab is to never start with drugs in the first place.  I was offered countless times cocaine at parties when I first arrived on the scene in Toronto during late 80's and early 90's.  I never wanted to try it even once, because I figured if I didnt know what it felt like I would never miss it.

A "friend" of mine wasnt so lucky, he owned a popular nightclub downtown and he thought he could control it.  Last time I heard he was in/out of rehabs and almost lost his business.  He was also a total jerk half the time, moodswings like crazy, make even the slightest wrong comment and he would snap.

No thanks, I'll stick to plain old beer when I'm at parties (and the occasional vodka sprite also)  

[CFTraveler]

You know we can read the fine print.

[Fresco]

You know we can read the fine print.

They say the font one uses reflects on their penis size  

[CFTraveler]

Ha ha!  Read my sig.

[Summerlander]

I guess you misunderstood me..I never said he was punished or wrong. Drugs give you a false boost ..you didn't really work towards that boost, you just get to experience what it could be like to raise your consciousness then you get brought back down to your reality with possible irreversable damage to your etheric field...In my eyes he killed himself. I watched him get clean on celebrity rehab, he was told over & over if he kept using he would die. Addiction is a horrible thing but if you can overcome it, that is what is truly enlightening and inspiring. To romanticize his situation is not helpful to anyone.

The etheric field is a preconceived idea which I think is hooey. As for drugs providing easy access to certain states otherwise only attainable through hard work...why not take the easy route?

I understand that working hard for something can be educational, but that shouldn't forbid you from doing what we want and I think it is also smart to pick the easiest way if it is available. As for him taking heroin...yeah, the law says it's bad...the majority say it's unethical...the same for suicide...but we make our own choices and he chose to do whatever he did, SO WHAT? Who are we to judge?

Spiritual enlightenment and the preservation of the etheric field...pfft!

[Fresco]

Ha ha!  Read my sig.

I did, and I was making a self-deprecating joke btw.

Unless of course you're a Hermaphrodite, in which case I digress 

[Lexy]

Spiritual enlightenment and the preservation of the etheric field...pfft!

Ultimately its about the preservation of the soul, unless you believe everyone has one without any effort or care.

[Summerlander]

Why do people believe in ideas like preservation of the soul and things like salvation? I'll tell you one philosophical notion that I quite admire. If you don't worry about what might become of you, you are truly free.

This "preservation of the soul" statement doesn't sound right to me. It implies fear. It's like someone saying "preserve the soul..." and I can just imagine something in brackets in front of it: "Or else..."

The concept of the soul is just that...a concept...an idea...a belief.

For all we know the self could still be an illusion concocted by the complex mechanism of the brain.

[Lexy]

It really makes no difference to me what you choose to believe. I'm not trying to convince
you one way or another.  IMO drugs damage the body & mind not just the "soul". ..I don't think its worth it. To each his own.

[Killa Rican]

Cannabis is good for the soul... ^__^

[Summerlander]

It really makes no difference to me what you choose to believe. I'm not trying to convince
you one way or another.  IMO drugs damage the body & mind not just the "soul". ..I don't think its worth it. To each his own.

Drugs can also heal you. It's drug abuse that harms you just like you can be harmed by the abuse of just about anything. There is a psychedelic drug which is very much welcomed by our brains...DMT!

Also, it is not about me choosing to believe. I'm stating facts here and this preservation of the soul crap doesn't sound right to me! LOL

[Astral316]

Cannabis is good for the soul... ^__^

I can attest to that. 

[Lexy]

Drugs can also heal you. It's drug abuse that harms you just like you can be harmed by the abuse of just about anything. There is a psychedelic drug which is very much welcomed by our brains...DMT!

Also, it is not about me choosing to believe. I'm stating facts here and this preservation of the soul crap doesn't sound right to me! LOL

Maybe preservation was the wrong word...but why does it matter if you doubt having a soul?
Yeah drug abuse is the problem. It all depends on the individual. Your brain makes it's own DMT,
You don't have to artificially supply it. Hardcore drugs can mess up your mind, why do that to yourself on purpose?

[Summerlander]

If you are a pretty mentally stable individual, the recreational use of DMT won't harm you. I can't say the same thing for heroine though and I would advise people to stay away from that junk.

Btw, I don't doubt having a soul...the soul may still exist. I just don't like the word preservation when associated with that concept. "Salvation" is even worse though.

I believe that, if there is a soul, it has the freedom to be absolutely whatever it wants to be. During our Earthly lives I believe that the soul should do its best to preserve the physical body. It's the soul's choice (or the self) however, to decide whether it will shine during its Earthly life or not.

In the end it really doesn't matter. Things will only matter if you mind makes them matter. If, for example, you believe that you should become famous before you die otherwise your life is not worth living, then obviously attaining fame is important as it matters to you. If you don't get it, you may suffer.

But if on the other hand you would still like to be famous but you don't mind if you don't succeed as you say to yourself that you can still lead a happy life without fame, then this approach is more relaxed and your wish doesn't matter so much. You are more at peace with yourself.

No one can condemn or punish you but yourself. This is the absolute truth. The less you look at the world based on your likes and dislikes, the more at peace with yourself you will be.

If you like Buddhism and you want to achieve enlightenment through the teachings of Buddha, feel free! It's great!

But enlightenment is not compulsory. In fact, you may even find your own kind of enlightenment by not even seeking it. The main thing is to have consideration for others as well as yourself! Never forget about yourself! Love yourself because you are just like everyone else. You are a person too. In the end, harmony is the best result.

At least that's what I think. I'm sorry if I come across as too opinionated, Lexy!

[Lexy]

Thanks 

I'm not buddhist though. I'm not religious. 

[personalreality]

Drugs can also heal you. It's drug abuse that harms you just like you can be harmed by the abuse of just about anything. There is a psychedelic drug which is very much welcomed by our brains...DMT!

Also, it is not about me choosing to believe. I'm stating facts here and this preservation of the soul crap doesn't sound right to me! LOL

Firstly, I agree with most of your statements, particularly about not worrying about what will become of you.  Truly free indeed my friend, truly free indeed.

Second, you bring up a good point with the DMT.  In order for us to "get high" off of drugs, we have to have receptors in the brain that are capable of receiving the chemicals these drugs have to offer.  Obviously the the opiate receptors make sense, because we have endogenous opiates in our body naturally (endorphins).  But THC receptors?  perhaps that's nature's mood stabilizer.  But my favorite by far is nicotinic receptors.  Our brain has specially made slots for nicotine.  Why?  Strange indeed.

[Summerlander]

You hit the nail on the head, personalreality! ^^

Thanks 

I'm not buddhist though. I'm not religious. 

Neither am I, I just take what I like from Buddhist just as I take what I like from LaVeyan Satanism!

[Stookie]

A lot of people really look towards psychedelics for advancement, but I've known a lot of people who loved things like LSD and mushrooms and even DMT, and I would say 1 in about 20 or 30 actually get something "spiritual" out of it. The rest are just "tripping balls". Those that do get something out of it are probably predisposed to being spiritual people and could figure it out on their own anyways, and get some real-deal training on the way.

Steiner mentions that there was a time for shamanism and hallucinogens to help us into the non-physical, but that we've evolved to point now where it's important to do it on our own without the use of external help. We need 100% reliance on our own being to push past through this mess of a world we're in. In other words, we don't need drugs for our salvation. Yeah, I said it.

[personalreality]

I agree 100% Stookie.  Psychedelics are useful for the "initial revelation" to wake someone up and for the occasional connection to the "otherworlds" (meaning any of the psychic states that facilitate experience of reality).  Beyond that is just indulgence and ultimately turns to dependence. 

I would attribute my initial awakening to LSD, DMT and psilocybin.  It was after my first few trips that the world started to open up.  Unfortunately I didn't get the hint and kept using, which effectively shut me off from self-healing (which is what that first revelation initiates).