Achieving Astral--Advice Appreciated

[LucidTraveler]

Did you appreciate the syntactic symmetry?

I am seeking advice about what I can do to AP. What works really for me is to fall asleep for a few hours (can be about 2), wake up, and then do some breathing exercises. I take a few big breaths in and out and relax each part of my body from the head down. Then I tense and relax each muscle from the toe up. After that, I concentrate on climbing a rope. At some point I basically daze out. Then I focus on advancing toward an image (I am very imaginative) and then get a sensation of my astral body separating from my physical body. I hear buzzing noises and start getting afraid... Obviously, I need to get out of this fear, but seriously it feels so weird to have an astral body leave my physical body. It is so unexplainable that I don't even know where to begin to describe it! What does it feel like to actually release your conscious?

I have two questions:
-> How does it feel to finally divorce your astral body from your physical body, triumphing over the fear?
-> What are more reliable methods that you use to achieve AP?

Thanks.

[Xanth]

For me, I don't do that.
For me, it's akin to falling asleep and going into a dream, but remaining completely consciously aware.

It feels like... waking up somewhere that isn't here.

As for reliable methods... nobody can actually tell you that.  We can only tell you what works best for us.
For myself, I use a type of projection called Phasing, which does what I listed above.

[Astral316]

If it (your method) isn't broke why fix it? Sounds like your method works fine, it's fear of the unknown that's your barrier. I recommend you try becoming lucid in a dream before you go for a conscious projection... think of it like diving into a pool instead of inching into the water torturing yourself. This was my first exposure to projection (as an adult anyway) and it made me open to the vibration-driven projections I later had.

[LucidTraveler]

Reply to the above.

Yea, I have done LD before and I am getting back into that. LD doesn't freak me out at all though. Just the opposite, in fact, most of the time I feel quite clever when I have achieved lucidity and can start taking control. One thing though... I don't feel tremendously conscious, but I definitely know that I am dreaming (need to try verbal command: "INCREASE CLARITY NOW!!!" etc). To call my state of consciousness in a LD equivalent to that of my waking life would be a lie. How about for you?

However, with my technique for AP, I could tell that my consciousness entering the astral planes is equivalent to that of the waking life... and that feels quite scary. However, I will get "over this", I am sure. Entering that vibrational stage though is tricky and I feel that my technique really just "knocks me out" more than anything else. I start seeing flickers of light, shake somewhat, but that--I believe--is due to me getting exhausted with my technique. Should I keep trying something that just makes me dizzy and only got me to the vibrational state after wake-back-to-bed? (4 times experience--one of which entered in the vibrational state).

[personalreality]

I did not appreciate the syntactic symmetry. 

In many respects it feels just as you would feel if your actual body were doing the things you perceive your astral body as doing.  sometimes you feel discarnate, like you're only a small point of consciousness.  but i would say that more often than not, i just feel normal.

This is something that I've been thinking about more and more and I really should have been sharing these feelings here at AP.  I am convinced that the #1 reason for failed projection (sorry ryan, not fear, though this issue leads to fear) is ignorance on the subject.  Not a lack of knowledge about AP theory and all that jazz.  But simply an understanding of what you're trying to do with your mind and body.  People go into this wanting to achieve OBE and that is their end goal, but they have no idea what the state of mind ought to be or what their body is really doing.  They just know that if they follow Technique A or Technique B, then some author or whatever says they will experience an OBE.  But these folks never really understand why they're doing a technique.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to really explain what it is you're doing (i'm at work) right now, but I will say this.  What you're going for here is a scenario where you have 2 important qualities:

#1 - Dissociation [literally dis-association] from the body - you want to essentially forget about your physical body and physical stimuli.  this isn't easy, obviously.  we are very physically focused 70% of our day (sleep accounts for the rest in this randomly pulled out of my bum statistic).  so to just stop being aware of your body and it's environment can be tricky.  this is one of the big reasons people say to try to project immediately upon waking (either in the morning or from a nap) or when going to sleep at night.  during these times you are already naturally dissociated.  what this should clue you in on is that when you sleep you are essentially in the same state that is required for projection.  the only real distinction being that you have maintained a thread of awareness as your body goes to sleep (which is where monroe's mind awake-body asleep comes from, which is a notion i don't entirely agree with).

#2 - A quiescent mind - Robert Peterson describes this the best.  He says that the state of mind you want to achieve is like the state of mind that you have when you are out on an evening with a thunderstorm rolling in.  Off in the distance you see a flash of lightning.  For a few brief moments you are completely still.  Your mind is singularly focused on listening for the subsequent thunder.  In that brief moment between lightning and thunder your mind is quiesced because you have stopped paying attention to anything but your hearing.  It's this singular focus that you want to achieve.  I will tell you from experience that there are two ways to go about finding this quiescent mind.  The first is through arduous and dedicated meditative practice.  This is probably a good route for people who are naturally adept at meditating.  It takes years of regular meditation to have the kind of control that is required to focus intently on one thing to the exclusion of all else.  I know a few people that can do it this way, but they have all put in a lot of time and work to get to that point.  Probably the most proficient I know is a hypnotherapist.  The second means of achieving a quiescent mind is to utilize your body's natural rhythms.  When you go to sleep at night (or for a nap) and when you wake up in the morning your mind is quiesced.  You aren't quite awake in the physical, but you're also not asleep either.  You are in a state of mind that is very conducive to singular thought.  This is a less predictable form of exit, but is by far the easiest way to get there for new people who don't have as much interest in cultivating a regular meditative practice.  [that said, don't think that this is a cop out to not meditate.  in the end, those who achieve this state of mind and project their consciousness from a controlled meditative state tend to be more successful I think.  and i don't just mean success in separation, but rather success in controlling the actual OBE experience.  when OOB your mind functions a little differently and things can be foggy at first.  but those people who are accomplished meditators will have little trouble because they know how to control their own mind and have experienced what cognition is like in different altered states.]

Beyond that, there are tricks and techniques that people teach, but they essentially come down to these categories, are you meditating to get there or are you going to utilize your body's rhythms and catch yourself as you drift to sleep.  both techniques present their own challenges but that's the gist.  phasing falls somewhere in between, sometimes utilizing a meditative technique to manipulate the natural "hallucinations" that come in the form of hypnagogia (mostly, sometimes hypnopompia). 

[LucidTraveler]

personal reality,

That was very helpful commentary. I have woken up from a 2-2.5 hour sleep with the intent to then AP. I get to the vibrational state and then get too scared to continue. As a matter of interest, are you able to AP on a day-to-day basis? The reason I ask is because I have reached the vibrational state each time that I purposely wake up from sleep. I am wondering how easy it is to go from the vibrational state to full APing. Quite easy would be my guess.

[personalreality]

When I was more actively trying to project (which lasted for a period of a few months after my first successful exit until I had some health complications that prevented me from practicing for a while), I could pretty much achieve conscious exit daily.  For a while I could do it anytime I tried with little to no difficulty.  Since then I have had difficulty getting back to that point, but I've been out of practice for the better part of a year now. 

It is quite easy once you've learned to do it, but that first time can be tricky.  For me it feels like it's almost an accident at the moment of exit.  My typical procedure has me laying down in bed (usually in the afternoon, around 2pm - 4pm was my most successful time) and going through some trance induction techniques (usually inducing a sensation of falling).  I would spend the next 45-60minutes narrowing my focus to a singular focus (though in that state it felt like 15-20 minutes at the most).  At some point I would drift nearly to sleep (in fact, I used to think of my practice as "pretending to go to sleep" because you need to be that deep).  Then, almost out of nowhere, my consciousness would start to flicker rapidly between awake and asleep.  I don't know how long this lasted or how many times my consciousness flickered because it's a very fuzzy and confusing state of mind.  But, eventually, I would pop back to conscious awareness and feel my body buzzing (or vibrating).  At this point I would use my intention/will to raise myself upwards.  It is hard to explain, but when you experience it you'll know what I mean.  You kind of just use your mind to force your body up in the air.  After a few seconds, when I felt that I was sufficiently separated, I would perform an exit technique like rolling out or doing a backwards somersault (my favorite and more successful). 

I think the key through this part is to make sure that you maintain a singular focus of mind.  This can be hard, especially the first couple times, because this experience is exciting and frightening.  But with repeated trials you'll get it.

[LucidTraveler]

Wow, personalreality--you just made my day (and dreams). A conscious exit on a daily basis! with little to no difficulty! That is phenomenal. I think that if you were probably that good to achieve it on a daily basis, you will get back to the swing of it.

It is not practical for me to take an afternoon nap though. But I can wake up after 2-2.5 hours and try to reach the vibrational state then AP from there. However, usually after waking up, I am so tired that I just end up falling asleep... I think as you were saying though this is a good indicator that I can, with the effort, reach AP in this sleepy state, right?

My Commentary:
I find it hard to consciously arrive at the vibrational state. Any trance induction technique that I take (eg. floating upwards and looking at my physical body) , although, it gets me to fall asleep eventually... I have never become aware of my increasing sleepiness. Maybe a little... but nothing genuine. Any recognition of my sleepiness, ironically, makes me more awake. I then desperately try to re-use some techniques and it kind of feels like I am just trying to fool myself. Strangely enough, I have gotten to the vibrational state over the last week since I have tried to AP... but before I arrive there I kind of "knock myself out"--something that is hard to achieve through a focused conscious effort. Therein lies the irony... either I barely try to make a conscious exit and somehow get to AP or I really try and don't AP--but obviously my strategy can't be based around not trying! If the effort was to come through barely trying, the result (I assume) would be more or less based on luck--no? And the point of my presence on this forum is to be able to not achieve AP through luck, but rather through a personal tried-and-true way.

Questions:
- is my sleep pattern (ie. the 2-2.5 hour trick) a good start? where should I go from there?
- can you name some "trance induction techniques"? I am unsure what you specifically mean/experience.
- can you be clearer about what you mean by "singular focus"?

Thanks.

[Psan]

I guess you are already there. Just need a bit more practice.

The keyword in MABA technique is balance. If you are too tired, you tend to fall asleep fast, if you are too active, you wake up completely and can't relax. If you chatter too much (mentally), you will fall asleep without knowing when, if you are too focused you will remain awake.

The trick is to let go (doesn't mean to give up) and maintain a slightly curious state of mind ("lets see whats going on"). Fear will surely stop you instantly. For that you can follow any of the protection rituals (like imagining a energy shield around you), or make up your own fancy ritual, it doesn't matter as long as you really believe that it will protect you no matter what. You have to trick the primitive parts of the brain that are doing their survival routines, that's all.

2-2.5 hours is a little less I guess, try sleeping for 4-5 hours. (Experiment to arrive at the sweet spot)