Confused - explanation sort

[ange.connell]

I'm really hoping that some of you can help me. What is the difference between Astral Projection, Lucid Dreaming, Phasing and OOBE's?? I have read posts on here and read books and talked to people and its all becoming a blur. I'm new to all this and I just would like some clarification. Are they 'one in the same', one or two the same as each other or are they all different. Talk about confused.com!!!

Any comments would be welcome before I drive myself mad with trying to figure it all out.

Ta very much

[Pauli2]

Let me remove your confusion with some unexplained abbreviations:

LD = You dream, then suddenly realizes "I'm dreaming!". You are now in F 22. According to Buhlman and others, you can now move to any OBE state, if you do the right techniques.

OBE = You move your non-physical self into the RTZ. OBE is usually done from F 10 (or F 12). You can now AP. According to RB you can now suffer from the mind-split effect.

AP = You move directly to any of F 22 - F 27. It's a kind of OBE according to Buhlman.

Phasing = AP. It's not an OBE according to Frank.

[blidge]

I Ang in my opinion and from my little experience that i have had lucid dreams, ootb, dreams are all astral travel, the only difference is level of consciousness and awareness. In all the experiences you are lucid as in knowing you are dreaming, astral travelling etc. Some are in the RTZ and elsewhere.

The interesting point is that you ask the question and you will inevitably get everyones views based on their own experiences, it can be a mindfield out there but when you start to get experiences you will start to make your mind up.

hope this helps  

[ange.connell]

Now I have another question - what is F10, F22 and F27. Same applies to all these 'F' numbers, what are they? I keep reading about them on the site and not a clue what everyone is on about. Sorry to be so dumb but as someone new to it all it can get very confusing

Thanks again for taking your time to reply - it is appreciated x

[Xanth]

Frank would be, dare I say it?!  WRONG!

First off... I'll state that the above and below are my opinions, just to get that monkey off my back to start with. 

Secondly... dreams, lucid dreams and astral projections/out of body experiences are all the same thing.  They happen "not in this physical reality".
Phasing, however, is one way or method which to astrally project or have an out of body experience.

As for all the other talk about Focus this and Focus that... I highly suggest you completely forget about it.

First and foremost, just work on having experiences.  Have a bunch and just record them... then, after *MANY* experiences, check out what you've recorded and THEN you can begin analyzing them.  But to start off, don't worry about anything else beyond having your own experiences. 

[Pauli2]

ange.connell, read my post here -> http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/dimensions_and_all_the_focus-t33461.0.html

[ange.connell]

Zanth  -  thanks for your help, you explain things in a way I get

Pauli2 - thanks for the link re focus levels

One day it will all make sense I guess

[personalreality]

Ange,
I would say that there isn't really a difference.  Its a consciousness gradient.  People try to define certain states as different from the others by calling them ap or ld or whatever.  But, a gradient or continuum if you like, has an infinite number of points, an infinite number of possible states for consciousness to inhabit.  In this case, trying to identify one single state as ld or AP is not only dumb, its impossible because no one will ever experience the EXACT same state that one person calls AP or ld.  So, I like to look at it all as different angles of perception of the same thing.

Loosely though, you could say its based on the degree to whichever you are consciously aware and have disassociated from your body and awareness of it.

[Astral316]

Lucid Dream = Experience in which you know you're dreaming.
Astral Projection = Experience in which you know you're dreaming and you're fully conscious.
OOBE = Experience in which you know you're out of body and you're fully conscious. (Same thing, essentially)
Phasing = Form of meditation intended to induce AP/OOBE.

I wouldn't make it any more complicated than this if you're low on experience.

[kurtykurt42]

Lucid Dream = Experience in which you know you're dreaming.
Astral Projection = Experience in which you know you're dreaming and you're fully conscious.
OOBE = Experience in which you know you're out of body and you're fully conscious. (Same thing, essentially)
Phasing = Form of meditation intended to induce AP/OOBE.

I wouldn't make it any more complicated than this if you're low on experience.

Here are my thoughts on this. I've studied Lucid Dreaming, AP, OOBEs and Phasing for quite some time, and from what I can tell they are all the same thing. I've spent countless hours in meditation trying to move my consciousness out of my body and gain some level of self-control that remotely resembles the awareness I have now while typing this post. I've been unsuccessful, and always end up in a blurry dream-like state, with little self control, ending up doing things that I wouldn't normally do in real life.

After practicing and studying remote viewing for several months, I've come to the conclusion that we humans have the ability to see distant "targets" and access information on a Universal scale. A small part of our consciousness seems to travel to a point in space/time and observe objects and we process this information visually through our third eye. That's my guess anyways.

I still don't know what dreams are or what happens when we die, which are two of the things I'm hoping to find out with the use of technology over the next century.

[CFTraveler]

Hi Ange.  I'm going to try to make it simple-
dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections and OBE are all types of projection. 
In a dream, when you realize you're dreaming, it's a lucid dream.  It's a type of personal projection.
An astral projection is the same as a dream, only instead of personal, it's collective- in an area where other people can go.
An OBE is the experience of leaving your body, and usually is to what is known as the RTZ, which means real time zone or etheric plane, and essentially is your bedroom or neighborhood.
An AP and RTZ OBE are ways of doing the same thing, but usually an AP doesn't land you in your room, more than likely a place much less 'normal' or 'close'.
I hope this cleared something up.

[Lexy]

Isn't the focus stuff from robert monroes books?

[Xanth]

Isn't the focus stuff from robert monroes books?

"Ultimate Journeys", yeah. 

[personalreality]

Frank Kepple expanded on focus levels and sort of "re-invented" them.

[Pauli2]

Frank Kepple expanded on focus levels and sort of "re-invented" them.

"expanded" ??

He compressed them to 5 levels.. and clearly doubted F 34/35.

[personalreality]

foreigners.....lol pauli. 

i meant that he further contemplated and explored the idea of focus levels more deeply, which resulted in a more succinct version of monroe's theory, but it was still an expansion of the understanding of the theory.

of course, i don't buy either theory so.....

[ange.connell]

Thanks to all of you who responded to me. And after talking to my friend about all the answers I've come to the conclusion, with his help, that I will have to experience an AP, LD, OOBE and or whatever and then analyse is afterwards. Just want the experience now. He suggested that I do some affirmations before I go to sleep to see if that helps in my quest for, at least an LD.