The "Goal"

[James S]

Very good Kakkarot!

I've always felt this, though never stronger than when I've been with a company that has attended things like time management seminars. The "teachers" of the corporate world are forever drilling into employees that one must be "goal oriented" to succeed in business. Maybe that's what leads to all the greed and corruption that we see in big business, because people lose sight of everything else but the goal.

Theres an analogy I've used here.
Picture a small hill in a dense forest, and on top of that hill is a stick with a gold coin on it that can be seen from  distance. The "goal oriented" mentality would have you go for that gold coin no matter what the obstacles. In fact you're often told the greater the obstacle you can overcome, the more that coin is worth. So the goal oriented person finally makes it to the top of the hill by going in a straight line. They get there bruised, battered & bleeding, but they got their coin.
Me, I prefer to look for a path. It might not be direct, in fact you might wander along it for a long time before you get to the top of the hill, but it is a pleasant walk, you see a lot along the way, and who knows? There might be a pot of gold coins on that path that the goal oriented person will end up missing altogether.

James.

[lateralus897]

wow, thank you, I just learned quite a bit about myself.

[kakkarot]

thank you for your responses james and laterus.

i guess as i p.s. i'll add something else:

it is proper that the goal is not the complete focus of the person seeking it, but it is also important that one does not focus only on the path. it is neccessary to focus on both and to put as much importance on each as each warrants.

~kakkarot

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I think it's a good idea for the teacher to reveal the reason for taking a certain path, but not to totally what the destination will be. The reason is because if a student has no idea what he's heading for, he may not take the path seriously or he may just not take the path at all because he doesn't know what might be in store for his future. I know i wouldn't like to be taught something without having any idea of what good it's going to do me.
But for the most part i agree. It's not a good idea to tell the student what the end result will be because, as you said, that student may focus too much on the final goal instead of focusing on the task at hand.

[kakkarot]

but i think the student should trust the teacher. else why let them teach you?

and besides, even if the student is following a teacher, the student must still decide what path they wish to be on, and must still take each step properly, and must attain the goal in the proper frame of mind (as will be attained after understanding all of the steps).

if you do not know whether you wish to begin a path or not, then look down it a short ways and see what you can. if you don't like it, start down another path.

but never close off paths to yourself, for in going down one path, you may find reason to go down another that you had previously not wanted to.

~kakkarot

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I agree that a student should trust a teacher, but only the student knows what he truly wants.
Of course, if the student finds that the path he/she is travelling is leading into territoy he/she doesn't want to tred, they can easily stop what they are doing, but then they may have wasted valuable time.
Different students want to learn in different ways so really i think it's up to the student which way they think would be best for themselves. []

[Fat_Turkey]

Wowie this is deep.

Random thought: I looove philosophy like this and im 14!! weeee!!![][]

Well I find that learning through a teacher and self-teaching together can have beneficial results. Focusing in the path...very good indeed. Now I might not fall asleep in math!!

Later!
-FT

[Spirit_Gurl]

does this have anything to do with karma?

what is the goal supposed to be? becomeing one with god?

[?]

[jilola]

The goal is just a beacon or a lighthouse whose purpose is to give us a sense of direction.
The whole point and essence of what spirituality is about is trying to become consciously aware that we are already there. We never left so we never have to arrive. We are. What we appear to be is another matter and mostly an illusion created by us in the physical.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[kakkarot]

spirit_gurl: the "goal" is the goal(s) that you have set for yourself in your life. anything that you work towards is a goal. if you want spiritual development, then that is the goal. if you want money and power, then that is the goal. what i believe is that the path towards the goal is at least as important as the goal itself (but whether a goal is important is up to each individual).

~kakkarot

[Nick]

kakkarot,

Very good. "If the student's eyes are constantly focused on the goal, rather than the path, the student will take shortcuts, will hurry through lessons, and will quickly forget that which they have learned in their fanatical desire to attain the goal. The student will not be worthy of the goal."

That is like zen, to focus on the path. We learn along the way. That is what is important.

[kakkarot]

thanks for the reply nick.

i think a good goal of spiritual development is to balance what you learn from the path with what you achieve/attain at the goal. after all, what good would a path be if it led nowhere, and what worth would a goal have if it were too easily achieved? [|)]

~kakkarot

[Nick]

kakkarot,

Well said, my friend.

[Nightfall]

Humm, interesting posts. So would you agree that there is no ultimate goal in life?

What would be the goal in spirituality? How do you know what is a good goal and what is a bad goal? (or I guess in my simplistic mind : which way is up?)

[kakkarot]

"So would you agree that there is no ultimate goal in life?" i would not. there is a point. many people spend their entire lives looking for just that. unfortunately many fall short at the stage where they realize that "as far as they can see" there is no point.

i have gone beyond that only because i've been told there is a point. (still don't know if i'll ever know what it is, but it is something to do until the future arrives.[])

"How do you know what is a good goal and what is a bad goal? (or I guess in my simplistic mind : which way is up?)." through wisdom and experience. [|)] "experience is the one thing you always get just after you need it."

~kakkarot

[kromeknight]

Kakkarot great post as it draws attention to a common human flaw. In my opinion we do not focus on the present and are not fully aware of what we are doing right at this moment, eg: while typing this I'm thinking of what to do after I log off.There   is much insight to your post as the replys have brought some to light, do you think you might be recieving these thoughts from your higher self...just an idea and please do post more as they come you []

p.s no need to change your avatar[]

[kakkarot]

I was thinking in bed last night, as is my custom, and as a bit of wisdom came to me, i decided to write it down. I do not normally write down what i understand, but if you guys like this one, perhaps i can write more. What do you think?
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You should never reach for the goal. If your teacher tells you something that you later learn to be a bit of a lie, do not look down upon them with disrespect. It is the teacher's job to make sure the student keeps their focus on the path to the goal.

If the student's eyes are constantly focused on the goal, rather than the path, the student will take shortcuts, will hurry through lessons, and will quickly forget that which they have learned in their fanatical desire to attain the goal. The student will not be worthy of the goal.

So the student should not focus on the goal, as the wise teacher knows, but should focus on the path. Each step should be taken in turn, fully understood. Each previous step should be reflected upon, and the student must understand how the previous step led to the current step, and how the current step will lead to the next step. The next step should be carefully considered before being taken, and be taken in patience and understanding.

After every step has been taken, after every lesson has been learned, only then will you truly attain the goal that the path has led you to.
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And just for you auraseer, i'll change my sig.
~kakkarot