An Experiment

[Shawn McCaffrey]

I assure you these are not just hallucenations.  This type of experiment has been done countless times by many people and is even in Robert Bruces book known as the card experiment.  But, if I ever do Astral Project, i'll be sure to tell you. []

[KnacK]

I thought when you are in the astral there is no connection to our world

[Tom]

http://www.freetranslation.com/

Robert Bruce plant, Versuche aufzustellen, zu zeigen, daß ein OBE objektiv wirklich sein kann. Wegen der begrenzten Beträge der Zeit die verfügbar ist zu den meisten Leuten die machen OBE und wegen der vieler Dinge die können einmischen sich in erfolgreichen Entwurf hat er einen spezifischen Weg, die Prüfung in Gemüt aufzustellen. Er wird Leute, die in einem großen Zimmer mit einer Serie von Zahlen planen können, oder etwas anderes haben, hinter einem Schirm zu beobachten. Die Bildwerfer werden um den Schirm gehen müssen, das Objekt zu beobachten, und die dann sofort Rückkehr. Dies wird von Auszeit von Körper lange Perioden nicht erfordern und es hat wird vermeiden, durch stabile Objekte zu gehen. Beide können Deformationen in der Erfahrung verursachen.

Robert Bruce plans to set up experiments to show that an OBE can be objectively real. Because of the limited amounts of time available to most people who do OBE and because of the many things which can interfere with successful projection he has a specific way to set up the test in mind. He will have people who can project in a large room with a series of numbers or something else to observe behind a screen. The projectors will have to go around the screen to observe the object and then immediately return. This will not require long periods of time out of body and it will avoid having to go through solid objects. Both can cause distortions in the experience.

[KnacK]

Is any experiment like this you described been captured on video ? or done in front of some reporters... or anything like that? and when yes.. where can i see it

[Tom]

Robert Bruce hat sein Forschungsinstitut noch nicht aufgestellt und es könnte mehrere Jahre sein, bevor er macht. Er bearbeitet Schreiben von mehreren Büchern jetzt und das nimmt am meisten von seiner Zeit ein.

Videokameras wären eine gute Idee. Das würde helfen, daß niemand zu zeigen, betrügt wird, der.


Robert Bruce has not set up his research institute yet and it could be several years before he does. He is working on writing several books now and that takes up most of his time.

Video cameras would be a good idea. That would help to show that no one cheated.

[KnacK]

It might be funny but you guys don't need to translate everything ) i do speak english

[Tom]

Does the web based translation service (http://www.freetranslation.com/) actually translate well enough or does it just look like it is translating?

[KnacK]

The translated german looks just like my englisch )

[KnacK]

why don't two OOBEers just meet somewhere? would be a nice experiment too

[wonderboy]

I have successfully done the card experiment. My roommate picked
a card without looking at it, put it face up on a high shelf in
my room and it lay there for about 6 months of trying. Several OBE's
later and a whole lot of forgetting to look at the card when I got
out, I saw it. I had 1 astonished friend and my roommate verify
it. It was cool, I told several people who decided they would believe
it if 5 or 10 more tests were done, or accused me of looking or
whatever. The fact of the matter is that there are a lot cooler
things to do when you are on the astral than to provide proof to
someone who probably won't believe you anyway. If the proof is
for yourself, you should quickly find that you believe your experiences with or without a test to prove it.

take care,
Wonderboy

[travisltk]

this may be out of context because it does not directly relate to O.O.B.E.
    An experiment that reminds me of your experiment except in this one the experimenter is awake and conscious and not in the astral.
It does require visualization and concentration, if at any time either of these are lost you will have to begin again.

        Imagine that you are somewhere, for instance in a neighbors
        garage, or any place,  If you imagine this long enough you
        might begin to actually be able to observe the events there.

[goingslow]

out of a combination of curiosity and boredom I put the german text Knack had up there and put it through the german to english translation thing on the link Tom put.

This gives you an idea of how well it translates:

I am not learned read very with OBE however I much.  If I it correctly would understand is then OBE a separate from the body.  That meant however that we in our world further search can.  In an OBE, we penetrate are only out of the body however in contrast to Astral Projection we yet in this ,,world".  I need takes place separate is a proof the OBE not only in the head actually.  



I contrived represent should myself an experiment that for an OBEer learned no problem.  



Experiment:



It never possible would have to be to visit been is in the OBE a place where one before. a corner in the cellar or the garage of the neighbor or the dwelling next door.  After one the place saw one tried it himself well to impress and after the OBE goes one there there and sees whether it with the memories unanimously voice.  



Self I create think goes myself not to carry out the experiment however with the aid of learned OBEer I once that it.  



Actually should not be proved can be is yes idealism with materialism however that not the case... that memory done yes no materialism (after idealistic rules)

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by KnacK

An Experiment.

I have wrote this text in Two languages because I don't speak English very good. I hope it will be enough for the next sentences.

I'm not very keen on OBE but I have read a lot of Articles. If I'm understand the Theory of Out Of Body Experience right than I come to the point where I see a chance of proving that OBE is not just happening in our heads but it's real.

Well, your english is certainly better than my german.

Thing is, it gets to the stage where "proof" just comes to you in spades. You get to learn all manner of things about people and places that would simply be not possible for you to dream up.

What I would respectfully suggest to anyone in your position is to forget any talk of the "theory" of out of body experiences (as they are commonly called) and simply go-ahead and practice for yourself.

Also, you say at the end of your post that you want to make sure that the experience is not just in our minds. Problem is, that is generally where they take place. I think perhaps what you mean is the experience is not merely a physical-brain created experience.

Yours,
Frank

[lyn92]

Knack maybe we can meet at your place?

[Squeek]

A while back i remember there being a post on this forum about a meeting place.   The author suggested Stonehenge, as it is a place that most people can get a clear image of.  The only problem would be time.  Both time out of body, and time begun.  You'd have to time it out; like chat beforehand then both go for it.

Hope this helps (and hope you can get the general idea of the post)

~Squeek

[What Tha Phak]

KnacK -

Yes, the Out of Body Experiences are entirely "in your head."  But saying this would be ambiguous because the experience is entirely subjective.  Yet, it is your consciousness, or awareness which actually leaves the body and physical thus existing as ether/spirit energy.  Once out of the "real time zone."  It is difficult to diffrientiate the astral environment and even dreams because there are countless aspects of it.  Dreams are a product of subconscious memories, desires, fears, regrets, etc that are manifested through your train of thought.  Dreams are a self created virtual reality.  This can be so in some forms of the Astral.  You might as well even say that having a dream is a form of an O.O.B.E.  After all, your consciousness is not the least bit aware that he/she is dreaming, and still familiarizes the environment as the actual reality.  Therefore it IS reality, for the time being, anyway.  

I think even Robert Bruce spoke of this dream-projection in A.D. if my memory is correct, (you can also look up the subject anywhere on the net) While dozing off to sleep, the "second subtle energy body," which your main/pure energies created, is said to float or rise above the physical body, mimicing its position.  It's is almost as if you are in such a deep state of sleep, that your mind forgets its surrounding and just detaches along with your limited awareness.

Also, here is an experiment that I would like to do:

Find someone that can OBE and also get my hands on a devise that can measure brain frequences and activity areas, more importantly some to measure facial twitches and REM occurances.  REM stands for Rapid Eye Movement and is a stage of sleep where you could expect the subject to actually be dreaming.  About every 90 mintues, your body completes a cycle of the stages sleeping.  I once read that REM is normal to happen during an OBE. My goal would be to see if REM actually happens with a succesful "astral exit," and how often it persists through the experience.

Now I would really like

I associated dreaming with projecting.

[clandestino]

Hi there KnacK...

There is currently no widely accepted proof that an OBE is not just "in our heads". However this lack of evidence does not mean that the experience is not real.

As per an earlier post, actually conducting an experiment that would satisfy science would cost a fantastic amount of money. The Monroe institue has spent years of effort (not with the express aim of proving the validity of OBE) and yet they don't have the proof that science is looking for.

I would suggest that you actually practice doing an OBE, and once you succeed, you'll probably be like me and the desire to find "proof" will be replaced by desire to repeat the experience.

One further thing - there are a few people in these forums who claim  success / failure in finding proof for themselves, in both the astral and the physical (real time zone). There are plenty of interesting posts by members (Patty and Ginny are 2 that spring to mind, i'm sure there are lots more) with this subject matter.

[Goldenshadow]

Is there really a differance between Psyche and matter? I think not...

[KnacK]

An Experiment.

I have wrote this text in Two languages because I don't speak English very good. I hope it will be enough for the next sentences.

I'm not very keen on OBE but I have read a lot of Articles. If I'm understand the Theory of Out Of Body Experience right than I come to the point where I see a chance of proving that OBE is not just happening in our heads but it's real.

When we go out of our body we still stay in this "World" and like many say are able to travel around. So here the Experiment begins.

Do as always and induce an OBE. This time you don't just wander around but go straight to a place you have never been before... I don't know if it is easy to travel so lets say you go to the neighbors garage or apartment or some place you really have never been before. When you are there try to remember all you can. After waking from the OBE the first thing you do is visit this place and see if it is the same as you experienced it in the Out Of Body Adventure.

Please  be so kind to send me an email to koni@designerstars.de or post it here so everybody can read it. I want to make sure that OBE experiences are not just in our mind.

GRZ KnacK




Ich bin nicht sehr erfahren mit OBE aber ich habe viel gelesen. Wenn ich es richtig verstehe dann ist OBE ein trennen vom Körper. Das bedeutet aber das wir in unserer Welt weiter forschen können. Bei einem OBE dringen wir ja nur aus dem Körper aber in Gegensatz zu Astral Projection sind wir noch in dieser ,,Welt". Ich brauche ein beweis das  OBE nicht nur im Kopf stattfindet sondern real ist.

Ich habe mir ein Experiment ausgedacht das für ein erfahrenen OBEer kein Problem darstellen sollte.

Experiment:

Es müsste möglich sein im OBE einen Ort zu besuchen wo man nie zuvor gewesen ist. z.B. eine Ecke im Keller oder die Garage des Nachbarn oder die Wohnung nebenan. Nachdem man den Ort gesehen hat versucht man ihn sich gut einzuprägen und nach dem OBE geht man da hin und sieht ob es mit den Erinnerungen übereinstimmt.

Selber schaffe ich das Experiment nicht durchzuführen aber mit der Hilfe erfahrener OBEer denk ich mir mal das es geht.

Eigentlich sollte ja Idealismus nicht mit Materialismus bewiesen werden können aber das ist ja nicht der Fall ... das Erinnerungsvermögen ist ja kein Materialismus (Nach Idealistischen Regeln [^] )          


GRZ KnacK