Is it possible to astral awaken away from the physical body?

[ElectromagneticMan]

One time I woke from a lucid dream and focused on astral projection... i woke up and then found myself in a different house (not sure if it was an actual obe), but if it was an obe, is it possible to just wake up not near your body?

btw has anyone ever woken up and your in a sleep paralysis state but also trying to come out of your body at the same time? and your in this very frustating state of trying to move? I think i was near the ceiling one time just floating there.. stuck.

oh and could anybody explain what phasing is? thank you

[Rudolph]

is it possible to just wake up not near your body?

Yes, I have done this a few times.

[Everlasting]

Yeah, it's possible to "wake up" in the astral.

[Xanth]

Phasing:  http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

As for your question, "is it possible to just wake up not near your body", most definitely.

If you've ever had a lucid dream where you just find that you're lucid... then you've experienced it directly.

[Rudolph]

Becoming lucid during a dream and waking up outside the body are not even close to the same thing.

Not even close.



To claim that the experience of one gives knowledge and experience of the other is so misleading as to be flat-out wrong.

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

Becoming lucid during a dream and waking up outside the body are not even close to the same thing.

Not even close.

What do you base your opinion on?

Becoming lucid in the non-physical state is an OBE, as you find yourself literally out of your body in a different environment.
My first OBE's only occurred in this manner. I'd simply find myself in surroundings either familiar or surreal. These surroundings are exactly the same (the same "laws" apply) as if I'd project out from my physical body.

btw has anyone ever woken up and your in a sleep paralysis state but also trying to come out of your body at the same time? and your in this very frustating state of trying to move? I think i was near the ceiling one time just floating there.. stuck.

Do you mean that you are floating out of body and paralyzed at the same time??

[Rudolph]

What do you base your opinion on?
Becoming lucid in the non-physical state is an OBE,...

I base my opinion on personal experience.

And I agree with Pauli, becoming lucid in the non-physical state is NOT an OBE. If you check the thread just suggested and read the link Pauli gave in that thread and look at the table comparison provided you can understand this position.

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

The chart is extremely inconsistent with my experiences.

There's no use in arguing about the matter, either of us will not conform to the opinion of each other.
It's for the projector to decide, and only him alone. Only he can establish his side of the argument based upon his experiences.

[Rudolph]

The chart is extremely inconsistent with my experiences.

If you could offer a few "for example" cases to clarify the inconsistency it would be helpful.

[Under_the_Midnight_Sun]

Chart: http://www.robertpeterson.org/obe-vs-lucid.html

"OBEer is a passive, objective observer. "
my site: http://fluidexistence.us/February2011.html
see: 2/8/11 projection #6
I had a conversation with a man in a machine on my driveway (after previously projecting straight out of my body) about my perspective on what he is doing to what he was doing in "reality". my perception was completely subjective.
and
http://fluidexistence.us/March2011.html
see: 3/22/11 projection #5
(This was a OOB where i found myself OOB. I'm including it to compare the two, because it seems you fellas would deem it LD)
I was speaking to a man in a factory (I had never seen before) about his appearance. It seemed that my subconscious thoughts were shaping the features on his face to resemble my father. He disagreed with my perception of him.

"OBEer perceives him/herself as separated from the physical body, which is inert and thoughtless. "
http://fluidexistence.us/january2011.html
see: 1/14/11 projection #5
In this projection I may have been remained conscious in both my physical and astral body simultaneously, which proved RB's mind-split theory for me. My physical side was not inert and thoughtless, but in sleep paralysis and thinking about how i shouldn't move in case my astral side was out exploring..


But these examples just demonstrate why some portions of the chart are not true to actuality. They don't exemplify why LD=OBE (except the comparison where in both a "LD" and an OOB my perceptions were not accurate with what those around me perceived.)

The chart claims that in a LD the physical body is not visible while in an OBE the physical body is usually visible.
The reason for this difference is extremely simple: After immediately projecting out of one's body the projector finds (usually) finds them-self in the RTZ or close to the RTZ. Here many aspects of our physical world are similar, and their physical body WOULD be lying in their beds sleeping. As the projection progresses the projector finds themselves "slipping" into higher dimensions (you may be interested in my Dimensional Theory: http://fluidexistence.us/Dimensional%20Theory.html). In the higher dimensional frequencies one would not see their physical body because they aren't in the same "area".
In an LD the projector finds themselves OOB after they have naturally progressed to higher dimensional frequencies and thus, would not see their body lying in their bed.

If i have more time tomorrow I'll add other examples. There are a few I'd like to touch on that deal with manifestation in the astral  

[Rudolph]

Thanks Under, that is plenty to make your point.

One of the criteria that I am settling on is the; not just conscious exit but a conscious re-entry in order to qualify as a full conscious OBE.
If the experience starts with a conscious rollout, for example and then proceeds through a series of events which then grow cloudy and then the projector later wakes up in the body like waking up from sleep... I am saying that is a conscious projection that degraded into an LD. This has happened to me quite a few times.

As the projection progresses the projector finds themselves "slipping" into higher dimensions

This is a little different. I am not sure that 'slipping' is the best word for this. I have phased into a higher dimension but it required energy, intent, focus and fortitude to accomplish. But this can be a bit tricky. I have stumbled over the odd method at times that completely reverses a failing navigation effort in surprising fashion.

So, long story short, I am still laying basic groundwork in all this and it will be months if not years before I can comment more confidently on it.

[Xanth]

Becoming lucid during a dream and waking up outside the body are not even close to the same thing.

Not even close.



To claim that the experience of one gives knowledge and experience of the other is so misleading as to be flat-out wrong.

That would be your opinion...

My opinion AND experience apparently runs contrary to yours. 

[Rudolph]

That would be your opinion...

My opinion AND experience apparently runs contrary to yours. 

Definitely a difference of opinion here.

But my experience reveals a striking difference in even the simplest characteristics of these two separate experiences. They have very little in common. So little in fact that I have to suspect that anyone who feels inclined to describe them as similar can't possible be talking about the same thing that I am thinking of.

In one event the dreamer is in a dream and becomes aware of the fact that they are dreaming and the dream remains a dream for that moment (what they do after that point varies widely).

Waking up outside the body however is simply being asleep, NOT in a dream state at all, and then waking up in an entirely real RTZ type location, in full conscious awareness and not in the body (or even anywhere near it). The state of awareness in these events is ultra-Aware and even usually surpasses that of full conscious OBE exits.

[Xanth]

But my experience reveals a striking difference in even the simplest characteristics of these two separate experiences. They have very little in common. So little in fact that I have to suspect that anyone who feels inclined to describe them as similar can't possible be talking about the same thing that I am thinking of.

Fair enough. 

[Stookie_]

I think people have much different views of what LD's are, and that's causing confusion too. My definition of an LD is much more strict than what tends to be thrown around here. What some qualify as an LD, I look at as just a very vivid regular dream. Even if at some point you realize your dreaming, that doesn't automatically make it an LD. LD's are more special than that to me, but that's just my own personal clarification. I don't consider my half-assed experiences a success.

But these definitions have ALWAYS been debated on around here. And we never fully agree. That's why you've got to stick with your guns.

[Summerlander]

AHEM!

First of all, let me clarify the meaning of the term "OOBE"...

It's an out-of-body EXPERIENCE. Note that the term is pragmatic. It does not affirm that the phenomenon is taking place outside of one's body as a certainty. Instead, it is merely descriptive of the sensation - hence the word "experience" in front of it! The reason for this is that no one has ever been able to prove that the human mind acquires a viewpoint outside of the physical body.

Now, I ask those of you who claim OOBEs and lucid dreams don't mix...is it not fair to say that lucid dream give you a sensation of being somewhere other than the body? Thus lucid dreams could be regarded as out-of-body experiences too. I've been an avid projector for three years now and to me there is absolutely no difference between the Mode 2 OOBE and the lucid dream environments - the difference is in the way in which you enter the non-physical field...PERIOD! - I have experienced peculiarities in both and again, in both types, I've had a fair share of fuzziness and HD.

If one believes that they are different, then they manifest that reality for themselves in the Phase state. Sticking to that belief at all costs only adds fuel to the fire.

Mode 1 OOBEs, where one appears to separate into the physical realm, don't escape my scepticism either. They could be really happening outside of the body...but then again, they could be a different type of 'lucid dreaming' where different areas of the brain are active and cause conscious awareness to focus away from imaginative worlds and burlesque representations of reality to focus instead on more true-to-life constructs.

I also take this into account as a possibility considering that split-brained individuals' dreams differ from ours in generally lacking the ambient travesties and symbolism while the sharp and distortion-free dreaming they experience is very utilitarian and true-to-life. Rudolph...I'm surprised you don't think like this seen as you are a retired scientist. You are too quick to jump to belief systems whilst overlooking the great chance that by engraving a particular way of thinking in your mind you may be influencing your experience of the Phase and limiting yourself.

If you want to believe that OOBEs and LDs are a different kettle of fish - fair enough. If you want to believe there are demons and angels, higher and lower in the metaphysical realm - fine. But don't make it out that everyone else's perspectives are wrong or misleading. You, above all, should consider other views and be susceptible to paradigm shifts with that scientific background. You...not me. What happened?

[Rudolph]

I ask those of you who claim OOBEs and lucid dreams don't mix

Who would that be? I have acknowledged every time you have brought it up that yes, indeed there are similarities and the lines are blurred at the edges.

You are too quick to jump to belief systems

What belief system would that be?

Summer, it appears that my well honed objectivity and pristine detachment may be beyond your ability to grasp.

How do I explain this?...

hmmm, I admit that I am a traditionalist and lean more conservative. Just because I reject a new proposal does not mean that I am intransigent. I reject flimsy, poorly worded proposals when they are of dubious value and serve no constructive purpose. When something truly better comes along you will find me to be an early adopter.

[Summerlander]

Okay, Rudolph. I'll leave you with your thoughts. They are beyond my grasp. Well, I couldn't grasp them if I wanted to unless I entered the Phase...your thoughts are thoughts after all...

I'll let you be right, ok Rudy? Just don't throw a tantrum.

[human_eraser]

You can wake up from your sleep, not in SP, but actually out of body. It's very possible. Most of the time though people panic and get sucked into their body. It's happened to me twice. Before I learned about AP, I thought I was being abducted by aliens. (I was on the other side of my room both times near the ceiling.) It could be when people report experiences of "alien abduction" they are actually experiencing this.

[Summerlander]

Very possible! In fact, you should read Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule. There is a connection there! A lot of the subjects reported contact with alien presences when given DMT intravenously. I have no doubt in my mind that when we induce OOBEs or enter the Phase state - whatever you want to call it - we induce our own pineal DMT trips. I've also met strange beings. If I didn't know I was entering the Phase I could have mistaken it these beings for a real close encounter:



You may want to check this out if you find it interesting:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/dmt_the_spirit_molecule-t33244.0.html

[ElectromagneticMan]

Haha seems like i caused a lot of conufsion and debate here. Thanks for the answers, sorry my grammer wasn't great so let me just try to explain it better. For me a dream all in my mind (although I'm considering it to also possibly be it's own world or dimension) using a "thought" body and my surroundings are my subconcious. If I become aware that I am dreaming in the dream then I deem it as a lucid dream.

Now astral projection for me means the seperation of the astral and physical bodies, once seperated you should be right next to your physical. My question was that I woke up from a lucid dream and went straight into astral projection, but instead of being next to my physical body when I astral projected, I was in another house that I knew of.

And for the other part of my question about half in my physical and half in my astral, it happened again to me this morning. I woke up and it felt like I was astral projecting but then the process stops and everything freezes, it felt like my right eye was open which was my astral eye. and my left eye was closed witch was my physical eye... and I could open my left eye with my astral fingers. haha if that makes any sense

Most of us cannot know for a true fact what is what and what true different realities are, we just have our own theories on them.

[ElectromagneticMan]

Very possible! In fact, you should read Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule. There is a connection there! A lot of the subjects reported contact with alien presences when given DMT intravenously. I have no doubt in my mind that when we induce OOBEs or enter the Phase state - whatever you want to call it - we induce our own pineal DMT trips. I've also met strange beings. If I didn't know I was entering the Phase I could have mistaken it these beings for a real close encounter:

You may want to check this out if you find it interesting:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/dmt_the_spirit_molecule-t33244.0.html

yeah i read some of that its amazing stuff, i want DMT so bad D:

[Xanth]

yeah i read some of that its amazing stuff, i want DMT so bad D:

I *HIGHLY* suggest that you learn to shift your consciousness on your own and become proficient with it before you turn to chemicals to do the transition for you.
You'll and your experiences will be much better for it.

[Summerlander]

I agree. You don't need the drugs. In fact, our bodies make DMT and that may provide the mechanism through which we exit our bodies to visit other dimensions. We can do it without pouring exogenous hallucinogens into our brains - although South American shamans drink Ayahuasca in order to get in touch with the spirit realms - and the main ingredient of the brew is DMT!

[Psan]

Becoming lucid during a dream and waking up outside the body are not even close to the same thing.

Not even close.



To claim that the experience of one gives knowledge and experience of the other is so misleading as to be flat-out wrong.

I agree completely. This is more than an isolated opinion.
(Although you could have said it less obviously, to protect the beliefs of sensitive people )

LD is a less aware form of altered state, AP (OBE) is a more aware form. These are very distinct and only those who have experienced both can appreciate this sentence. I speak from my experience, the main difference I found was that in LD you can change things, like make someone appear or make a house vanish and other fun stuff. In AP you have less control, which means the reality is more solid and not of your own making. Its as good as the objective reality of physical.

Other major difference I found was that people in LDs are dummies, almost puppets. In AP you are more likely to encounter real 'people'. (You can't prove it but you will have a hard time doubting them, they seem real in every sense). Its another matter that one can 'rise' from an LD to OBE or can 'fall' from OBE to a mere LD. It happens in seconds, so its easy to confuse the two and I do not blame those who got confused and formed a belief. Its natural.

So a difference of level of awareness. There can be even higher levels of awareness than AP, like being aware of both physical and Astral at the same time , while fully awake 'here'. There can be even higher, like bilocation or multilocations in various planes including physical. It is sad that there are no words in English to name these, but if you read the original Sanskrit and Tibetan literature, you will find the words, hundreds of them, one for each distinct level of awareness.

Those who cannot differentiate between an LD and an OBE need to practice more and achieve an OBE instead of compromising on calling an OBE as a dream. Sorry no offense, just a friendly push.