Some conclusions

[Contenteo]

Over the past weeks I have been refining more models(which I will share relatively soon) and speaking with many people with various background on the subject.

I have concluded that the astral is most likely not a higher realm, but a "lower" more fundamental realm that consciousness has evolved from. The act of sleeping, in which the brain is rather active, appears to me more and more simply a check and balance from our former evolutionary state. My concept of visualizing is just one of many various ways of disconnecting the self from this physical plane in a "waking" state. Honestly, any form of mental disconnectedness has a similar effect. Think about the ambient feeling you get after watching television, getting out of a movie, or engrossed in a word or number puzzle. These are all first steps in disconnecting oneself. This concept also lends credence to the myriad of techniques that many groups of people have.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[c0sm0nautt]

I'm not sure. IMO, the astral seems like a place we are involving into, not from. Thought manifests in reality much quicker in the astral, phase - whatever you want to call it. In that sense, physical reality would be more of a training for consciousness.

There is also the shamanic model which is that of a three tiered world. There is a lower realm, middle realm (where humans are), and a higher realm. The lower realm is not to be confused with hell, but deals with animal and plant consciousness and earth spirits. I'm not too sure what the higher realm is all about - I think maybe angels and other benevolent spirits.

[Stookie_]

I view it all as one thing... we're only (normally) conscious of the physical, and the astral is subconscious and always there and active in regards to our physical life, we're just not aware of it. The entire physical being is:

Physical, Etheric, Astral, Ego

They all work together simultaneous as a single being. Same as "planes", the physical, etheric, astral, & mental are all different aspects of one thing, which all manifestation is dependent on. An action at the physical starts as a concept at the mental, a feeling/instinct/desire at the astral, conscious decision at the etheric, action at the physical. We don't consciously experience this, but it's basically our subconscious at work.

[CFTraveler]

Contenteo, may I offer an opinion?
I think it's more fulfilling to delve in lots of hypotheses and theories and try not to reach  too many conclusions- because conclusions lead to beliefs and that entrenches you from further learning.
This is a trap we all fall into, now and then.

[Xanth]

Contenteo, may I offer an opinion?
I think it's more fulfilling to delve in lots of hypotheses and theories and try not to reach  too many conclusions- because conclusions lead to beliefs and that entrenches you from further learning.
This is a trap we all fall into, now and then.

I fully agree with that.

Conclusions = the forming of beliefs.
Remain skeptically open regarding everything.  Don't believe or disbelieve... don't conclude.  Just keep testing. 

[c0sm0nautt]

True that.

[Contenteo]

Ah, yes, hypothesis would have been a better word choice, because that is what I meant. I took it from the assumption that all this stuff is subjective and our conclusions will ever be evolving.

Cosmo - a key factor for my out of the box thinking on this subject was microbiologist experts. A large argument on the topic of consciousness is where does it start. (Kinda like the political abortion argument, but more along evolutionary lines) Many articles I have read best describe the consciousness of a cellular organism to be that of a "dream-like state." This struck me as rather intriguing as scientists usually don't go there. Combine this with Thomas Campbell logical hypothesis that consciousness is simply a centralized "being" that is attempting to understand its surroundings.
Now, I have found that a dualism is the best way to find accurate representational faithful models of this world. In this case, the great intangible and tangible(phsyical) divide. In short terms, we come from the intangible, exist in the physical, and then return to the intangible. The phenomenon we call astral projection(dreaming) just happens to be tiny experiences of reconnecting to the intangible. Do a study on all creatures in the world and their sleep patterns and I think may understand the evolution of sleep and what we are experiencing in a slightly more objective way.
Anyway, Cosmo, I do believe the concept that we are always evolving into high beings is romantic and whatnot, but it simply is not a holistic model to judge our entire reality off of. Take the brain, for example, neuro-scientists study's have found that intelligence is just the excess of neurons in relation to all the bodily functions that must be kept up. Just because we have achieved self realization does not make our consciousness better or worse, it just more adept to this physical plane. Logically, it should not grant humans any more endgame superiority than an a privileged aristocrat's knowledge granted them greater lifestyle.

Stookie - I am a fellow firm believer of the model where the astral(intangible) and physical(tangible) are happening at the same "time". However, that discussion will lead us into the theory of relativity and questions what is time in relation to the intangible. Both, subjective theoretical questions.

CF and Xanth- I appreciate the wise words. But what do you think in regards to the concept of the intangible(astral) world being more fundamental.

To all- I understand the cycle of entering the "astral"/'higher' realm upon death or phasing attempts. However, the similarities in all of these verbal placeholders for intangible states are innumerably great. We rise from the intangible world, utilize it to process thoughts why we exist and then return to it. Whether you want to call it a higher state or lower state is irrelevant, because those are physical descriptors, something that does not intangibly exist. I do not mean any disrespect by saying a higher state doesn't exist, just that we enter a more fundamental state. A place where matter cannot be augmented, only thought can be augmented.

I look forward to hearing back from you all. Apologies on the long response. 

Cheers,
Contenteo

[bluremi]

Cententeo, if you are interested in consciousness (specifically self-awareness, the observing-ego type that animals are missing) an interesting concept to wiki is Strange Loops (Douglas Hosftadter). The theory is that self-awareness is the result of feedback in the brain, where neurons are stimulated by other neurons, and their reaction fuels their own input, etc... Most systems have a stimulus-reaction setup, but when feedback occurs the reaction becomes the stimulus for further reaction.

Animals can be said to be in a dream-like state, merely experiencing things as they happen without developing a self-referential perspective on events. Creating a strange loop might be the holy grail of artificial intelligence research, as it would create a system that is able to analyze itself and gain self-awareness.

[Summerlander]

Think about the ambient feeling you get after watching television, getting out of a movie, or engrossed in a word or number puzzle. These are all first steps in disconnecting oneself. This concept also lends credence to the myriad of techniques that many groups of people have.

Disconnectedness or the after effects of hypnosis.

Cententeo, if you are interested in consciousness (specifically self-awareness, the observing-ego type that animals are missing) an interesting concept to wiki is Strange Loops (Douglas Hosftadter). The theory is that self-awareness is the result of feedback in the brain, where neurons are stimulated by other neurons, and their reaction fuels their own input, etc... Most systems have a stimulus-reaction setup, but when feedback occurs the reaction becomes the stimulus for further reaction.

Animals can be said to be in a dream-like state, merely experiencing things as they happen without developing a self-referential perspective on events. Creating a strange loop might be the holy grail of artificial intelligence research, as it would create a system that is able to analyze itself and gain self-awareness.

Interesting theory. So the self could be a symptom of these interactions. I posit that, intrinsically, we are the awareness without the self. This awareness is pristine. It doesn't hold any concepts. It is the void itself where things happen and evolve from trial and error and at the moment seem to be progressing towards an entropy reduction.

Contenteo, may I offer an opinion?
I think it's more fulfilling to delve in lots of hypotheses and theories and try not to reach  too many conclusions- because conclusions lead to beliefs and that entrenches you from further learning.
This is a trap we all fall into, now and then.

That's true.